Bush Admin wants to Federalize College

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

This was passed on to me today:

Center for Public Policy


Letter To NASPA Members From The Executive Director

Dear NASPA Colleagues:

Congress is back in session and through our membership in the Washington Higher Education Secretariat, I have received a briefing on legislative issues that will most likely be of concern to you. In representing all of our members, NASPA strives to present information in a politically non-partisan or bi-partisan manner. If there is a slant of any kind, it is based on the assumption that NASPA members are most concerned about helping students get a college education regardless of their ability to pay.

President's Budget and HEA

There are two areas of concern that I'll highlight: 1) Student Aid provisions contained in President Bush's budget and 2) Controversial proposals included in the Reauthorization of Higher Education Act (HEA).

President Bush's Budget included the following:

1. The Pell Grant funding will be flat and no increase. The grant will remain at $4,050.

2. College Work Study funding will remain flat and there is the possibility of the elimination of the Perkins Loan and LEAP.

The current list of proposals in the Reauthorization of HEA include many that are of concern to student affairs administrators:

a. A proposal to eliminate federal student aid to students at colleges that increase tuition faster than twice the rate of inflation. (H.R. 3311) (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c108:H.R.3311:)

b. A proposal to establish federal standards governing the transfer of academic credit and requires the submission of voluminous data to the federal government. (H.R. 3311)
Impact -- This proposal creates groundbreaking federal interference in college admissions and puts the federal government in the business of defining what academic credits can be transferred.

c. A proposal to reduce aid to students and institutions in states that cut spending on higher education, regardless of the reason for such cuts. (S. 1793) (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c108:S.1793:)

d. A proposal to give students the right to sue colleges if the school inadvertently releases confidential information. (H.R. 1848) (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c108:H.R.1848:)

e. A proposal to increase the first-year loan limits by $375 up to $3,000.

f. A proposal to change the formula for supplemental loans and workstudy.

g. A proposal to eliminate the current set-aside of 7% of workstudy funds for students doing community service. The alternative suggested is that there will be a separate program where 20% of the Workstudy funds will be reserved for schools with high levels of community service.

The Senate has selected the week of March 22 as a time to bring education bills to the floor. In response to some of the proposals under consideration, NASPA has signed on in support of a Keep College Possible campaign led by the National Association of Independent Colleges and Universities (NAICU) (see http://www.naicu.edu).

Public Opinion

Recent public opinion poll data strongly suggests that the American public is very supportive of higher education. For example:

Public Overwhelmingly Disapproves of More Federal Government Control of America's Colleges and Universities

Public Does Not Support Federal Intervention in Day-to-Day Activities of Colleges

Public Overwhelmingly Supports Federal Student Aid Programs

Public Does Not Believe Students Should Be Penalized if Schools Raise Tuition

Get Your Voice Heard

NAICU in its Keep College Possible campaign suggests several concrete steps we all can take to express our concern about these proposals:

Write, call, and visit with your U.S. representative and senators.

Tell members of Congress how you feel:

"Do fund federal student aid."

"Don't federalize my college."

Share your thoughts with your local media, e.g. write a letter to the editor, or appear on a radio talk show.

Ask others to do the same.

Follow up and communicate again.

As I receive briefings on upcoming legislation, I will share the information. The NASPA Public Policy Division will also keep you posted on upcoming policy issues that have an impact on students and our colleges and universities.

Gwendolyn Jordan Dungy
Executive Director, NASPA








National Association of Student Personnel Administrators
1875 Connecticut Ave., NW, Ste. 418 · Washington DC, 20009
phone: (202) 265-7500 · fax: (202) 797-1157

Please send your questions, comments, and suggestions to:
office@naspa.org

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[Nightingale 0]

I thought conservatives wanted LESS government, not more!!!

This is just plain stupid.

[PhillyKev 0]

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I thought conservatives wanted LESS government, not more!!!

This is just plain stupid.

That's what they say, problem is, not what they do.

[turtlespeed 226]

Finaly A system that has a chance to work.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[JohnRich 4]

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Bush Admin wants to Federalize College

Your thread title is a misrepresentation of what the message says is actually being proposed.

[Jib 0]

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If there is a slant of any kind, it is based on the assumption that NASPA members are most concerned about helping students get a college education regardless of their ability to pay.

So, this doesn't help make college affordable??

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A proposal to eliminate federal student aid to students at colleges that increase tuition faster than twice the rate of inflation.

A proposal to reduce aid to students and institutions in states that cut spending on higher education, regardless of the reason for such cuts.

These seem to demand colleges keep tuition in check and states continue to support higher education; so, responsible people who saved for their kid's education can pay for it without a second mortgage. I have no idea how loaning someone $100k for undergraduate school, let alone graduate school, when they can only get a $30k job thereafter benefits the students in any way.

--------------------------------------------------
the depth of his depravity sickens me.
-- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

John,

If you worked for a college (I have worked at two of them now), you would understand how the majority of this is a terrible idea. As it is, we are handcuffed on many levels due that are obstacles to helping students pursue their dreams, any more and it would make the process even harder for these kids and returning adults.

The Gov't stepping in a regulating public and private colleges is Big Gov't, I don't see how the title was misleading.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[Kennedy 0]

I think his point was that this looks like a change to regulations in place, not some brand new sweeping federal intrusion. Just because you don't like what someone's doing, that doesn't make it wrong.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

If you want to attend a private college, you have to pay for it, esp since there is little financial help from the state government like there is at a public university.

It's hard for a school like Loyola to keep up with U of I as far as facilities, etc...the only way to afford that is to raise tuition or hope that someone will make a donation.

Also, you will find that the degree's that get you $30k out the door are the ones with almost "zero" marketablity towards a true career. Universities need to develop better career development departments and focus the students on where they are going right from Day One freshman year.

Over HALF of the students I have coming to see me already have a 4-year degree, and are now coming to me to pursue a career that has a better future than what they already spend 4-5 years studying for. On top of that, they have a better chance of making more money with the AAS you can get from my school. Edit to add: The "focused" traditional degrees of dentistry, engineering, law, and medicine are the leading areas of job placement and high starting salaries.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[benny 0]

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These seem to demand colleges keep tuition in check and states continue to support higher education; so, responsible people who saved for their kid's education can pay for it without a second mortgage. I have no idea how loaning someone $100k for undergraduate school, let alone graduate school, when they can only get a $30k job thereafter benefits the students in any way.

Ahh, so the answer is then to punish the students who happen to live in states or go to schools where that is not the case? Many states have been left with shortfalls in their budgets and have been forced to make cuts across the board while still increasing tuition. Much of this is due to the Bush Administration/Republican Congress's reckless tax cuts and budget proposal.

Never go to a DZ strip show.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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I think his point was that this looks like a change to regulations in place, not some brand new sweeping federal intrusion. Just because you don't like what someone's doing, that doesn't make it wrong.

Yes it does

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[Kennedy 0]

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Yes it does

Only if the little woman says so.

What is "you school," and what is an AAS?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[JohnRich 4]

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If you worked for a college (I have worked at two of them now), you would understand how the majority of this is a terrible idea... The Gov't stepping in a regulating public and private colleges is Big Gov't, I don't see how the title was misleading.

I made no comment about whether the proposals are "good" or "bad" - I'll leave that for others to decide.

All but two of the proposals seemed to be about funding for college student loans. That's not "federalizing colleges" - it takes no control away from colleges to do as they please.

The only item I saw that might actually exert some Federal control over colleges was the national standards for transferring credit from one college to another.

And I don't know whether that's a good idea or not without seeing the details.

I do know that I attended five different colleges during the nine years of night school that it took me to get my degree. And every time I transferred, I lost a lot of credits, because colleges don't like to accept another's courses as "equivalent". Thus, it took me a lot longer to get my degree than it should have, and I ended up with a heck of a lot more total credit hours than most college graduates. Which means that I ended up wasting my time with a lot of those classes. So if this proposal would do something about that, I might be in favor of it.

Sometimes I think colleges err in favor of keeping teachers employed, rather than helping their students. For another example, some colleges require a certain number of classes to be taken during summer break sessions. There's no educational justification for that - it is simply forcing students to do something they may not want, just to try and keep a certain number of teachers employed during the summer.

[JohnRich 4]

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Many states have been left with shortfalls in their budgets and have been forced to make cuts across the board while still increasing tuition. Much of this is due to the Bush Administration/Republican Congress's reckless tax cuts and budget proposal.

Wow, so now George Bush is even responsible for the budget problems of States, where he doesn't even have any authority!

Never underestimate the ability of Bush-haters to blame him for things unrelated to his power.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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Yes it does

Only if the little woman says so.

What is "you school," and what is an AAS?

I work for a private post secondary school that has been accredited by the Higher Learning Commission and offers an Associate of Applied Science Degree (AAS) in LeCordon Blue Cullinary Arts and one in Baking.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[benny 0]

Unfunded federal mandates at the state level have very much to do with the administration. File under "No Child Left Behind"

Never go to a DZ strip show.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

Quote

Quote

Many states have been left with shortfalls in their budgets and have been forced to make cuts across the board while still increasing tuition. Much of this is due to the Bush Administration/Republican Congress's reckless tax cuts and budget proposal.

Wow, so now George Bush is even responsible for the budget problems of States, where he doesn't even have any authority!

Never underestimate the ability of Bush-haters to blame him for things unrelated to his power.

Hey, Bush did a great job of not defending himself on Meet the Press.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

Quote

Many states have been left with shortfalls in their budgets and have been forced to make cuts across the board while still increasing tuition. Much of this is due to the Bush Administration/Republican Congress's reckless tax cuts and budget proposal.

Wow, so now George Bush is even responsible for the budget problems of States, where he doesn't even have any authority!

Never underestimate the ability of Bush-haters to blame him for things unrelated to his power.

I think we need to start looking at ways to reduce the cost of an education. Hey, I know. Lets apply the same reasoning we did for Prescription Drugs. Lets start bringing in Professors and teachers from other countries. That will force the labor market for teachers salaries down and will help lower the cost of tuition. If it works for prescription drugs, why not Professors?

[benny 0]

Nah, lets just move the colleges to India or China!

Never go to a DZ strip show.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Nah, lets just move the colleges to India or China!

Then you'd support moving the seniors to Canada?

[benny 0]

I always preferred the ancient oriental practice of ritual suicide when the eldery had outlived their usefulness. But moving them to canada would be fine.

Never go to a DZ strip show.

[Nightingale 0]

there are already systems in place to prevent this from happening.

for example, my bro currently goes to Fullerton College (a JC) and wants to transfer to Loyola Marymount (my alma mater). Every semester, he faxes a form over to Loyola with the course description of the classes he's planning on. They send it back with an approval form, stating that the classes will transfer to LMU. He saves these in case there is any dispute. That way, there are no wasted classes. LMU, however, will not transfer anything less than a B grade, so he has wasted a bit of time there and had to retake a few things. He also fills out the credit transfer forms for cal state and UC schools, just in case he changes his mind, and only takes classes accepted by all three. He'll have no worries when he moves on to university.

what credits transfer to which school is up to the individual educational institution, and it is that way for a reason. some schools have programs that are set up a little differently. Perhaps, if University A knows that Junior College B does not teach the beginning film class with 16 mm film, but with 8mm, they have the right to not accept that credit, since the student will not have the required knowledge of 16mm equipment to move on to film2.

if a student is responsible and does his or her homework with regards to credit transfers, it really is not as big a deal as folks make it out to be.

[JohnRich 4]

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there are already systems in place to prevent this from happening. for example, my bro currently goes to Fullerton College (a JC) and wants to transfer to Loyola Marymount (my alma mater). Every semester, he faxes a form over to Loyola with the course description of the classes he's planning on. They send it back with an approval form, stating that the classes will transfer to LMU. He saves these in case there is any dispute. That way, there are no wasted classes.

That's great if you know to where you will be transferring in the future. My classes weren't that predictable, since I was in the Marines, and being transferred willy-nilly around the country and elsewhere without any ability to predict it. And then as a civilian, attending night school while working full time, I had several more transfers due to job changes. So I just had to wait until I arrived at my new location, find out what college was there, and then try to get them to accept my previous credits.

By the time I got to my fifth college, I had my transcripts evaluated and tons of classes were rejected. I went to the office and asked for the forms to appeal the appraisal of my prior classes, and they handed three. Uh-uh; I told them I needed 20 of the forms! They were quite surprised. I had to bring in my old textbooks, show my old tests, present old term papers, and so on, all to prove that my prior classes matched their own course descriptions as to what material was covered. I had to talk to department heads, and so on. It was a major pain in the ass.

And most of it comes about just because colleges have different numbering systems for their classes. Psychology 100 at one school, might be called Psychology 101 at another school. Thus, an advisor can reject the classes as being "unequal", when in fact the content is identical.

I've been to the following schools:
- U. of Maryland (Japan)
- East Carolina U. (Cherry Point, NC)
- Florida Junior College (Jacksonville, FL)
- Brevard Community College (Melbourne, FL)
- U. of Central Florida (Cocoa, FL)
- U. of Houston (Houston, TX)

The transfers between all of those was maddening!

[kallend 2,150]

Quote

Quote

If you worked for a college (I have worked at two of them now), you would understand how the majority of this is a terrible idea... The Gov't stepping in a regulating public and private colleges is Big Gov't, I don't see how the title was misleading.

I made no comment about whether the proposals are "good" or "bad" - I'll leave that for others to decide.

All but two of the proposals seemed to be about funding for college student loans. That's not "federalizing colleges" - it takes no control away from colleges to do as they please.

The only item I saw that might actually exert some Federal control over colleges was the national standards for transferring credit from one college to another.

And I don't know whether that's a good idea or not without seeing the details.

I do know that I attended five different colleges during the nine years of night school that it took me to get my degree. And every time I transferred, I lost a lot of credits, because colleges don't like to accept another's courses as "equivalent". Thus, it took me a lot longer to get my degree than it should have, and I ended up with a heck of a lot more total credit hours than most college graduates. Which means that I ended up wasting my time with a lot of those classes. So if this proposal would do something about that, I might be in favor of it.

Sometimes I think colleges err in favor of keeping teachers employed, rather than helping their students. For another example, some colleges require a certain number of classes to be taken during summer break sessions. There's no educational justification for that - it is simply forcing students to do something they may not want, just to try and keep a certain number of teachers employed during the summer.

On the whole, I agree with you

This country need to make up its mind whether higher education should be private or public. The current mixed system creates two classes of students - those who get educated for a song, and those who pay through the nose. And financial need has little to do with it - many kids from very wealthy families attend state schools, and vice versa.

I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for those who graduate with degrees in art history and then can't get jobs. It's just another form of hedonism to spend 4 years doing something like that, especially if you expect the taxpayer to pay for it.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,150]

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I've been to the following schools:
- U. of Maryland (Japan)
- East Carolina U. (Cherry Point, NC)
- Florida Junior College (Jacksonville, FL)
- Brevard Community College (Melbourne, FL)
- U. of Central Florida (Cocoa, FL)
- U. of Houston (Houston, TX)

The transfers between all of those was maddening!

Interesting: our "examiner of credentials" has a very large book, produced annually by, I think, the ACRAO, giving course equivalences from colleges all over the USA and some other countries too. Even equivalences European high school credentials to our college courses (European HS math and science is generally equivalent to US 100 and 200 college level). About 99% of our transfer credit decisions come from that book.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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