President Bush admits intelligence error

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http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/FFC14534-A101-414E-94B5-39A81455D750.htm

An excerpt:

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In a rare television interview on Sunday with the American NBC network, Bush said his assertion on 17 March that intelligence leaves no doubt Iraq possesses "some of the most lethal weapons ever devised" was incorrect.

But when challenged by interviewer Tim Russert, the president denied he took the nation to war under false pretenses.

"First of all, I expected to find the weapons," he said. "I based my decision on the best intelligence possible, intelligence that had been gathered over the years, intelligence that not only our analysts thought was valid but analysts from other countries thought was valid.

"And I made a decision based upon that intelligence in the context of the war against terror. In other words, we were attacked, and therefore every threat had to be reanalysed...

Life is ez
On the dz
Every jumper's dream
3 rigs and an airstream

[quade 4]

File under irony.

The funniest moment, I thought, came when Russert pressed President Bush on his National Guard service record.

GWB invaded Iraq because Saddam couldn't prove he had gotten rid of his WMDs, but GWB wants us to accept that he finished his National Guard service although there are no records that prove he did.

Amazingly, Russert let that go completely without challenge.

Remember this entire episode the next time somebody says "the media" is controlled by the left wing.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[jjiimmyyt 0]

I always found it funny that some people say Bush had some intelligence.

Interpret as you wish.

"This isn't an iron lung, people. You can actually disconnect and not die." -Dave

[quade 4]

But Jimmy -- that was the obvious joke.

I was aiming for a double-whammy.

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The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[stevebabin 0]

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/FFC14534-A101-414E-94B5-39A81455D750.htm

Al Jazeera?....Excellent source.

"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

[newsstand 0]

Why is it so hard for people to do this?

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/FFC14534-A101-414E-94B5-39A81455D750.htm

Just click the /url button below the text box where you enter the reply.

"Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening."
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes

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Also, http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/02/07/politics/main598662.shtml.

The interview really did happen. I swear! I watched it on NBC.

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The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Gravitymaster 0]

Why is it up to GWB to prove he completed his Nat'l Guard training 32 years ago? Apparently the Nat'l Guard had no problem because he was given an HONERABLE DISCHARGE. Why doesn't anyone accusing him of this and perpetrating this crap come up with some facts instead of this BS innuendo? Duh, maybe because they can't? Could it be?

[quade 4]

Do you see the irony in your question?

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The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[benny 0]

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Why is it up to GWB to prove he completed his Nat'l Guard training 32 years ago? Apparently the Nat'l Guard had no problem because he was given an HONERABLE DISCHARGE. Why doesn't anyone accusing him of this and perpetrating this crap come up with some facts instead of this BS innuendo? Duh, maybe because they can't? Could it be?

Well I'm sure he could just think up the name of one of the buddies he had down there in the Guard, look his number up, give him a call and ask "will you please tell these people I was there" If he really want to put those WMD (weapons of mass distraction) to rest that is.

Never go to a DZ strip show.

[stevebabin 0]

LOL!
Yes , I too saw the interview. I should have made myself more clear.
I was referring to the way different news agencies spin the stories. I am not suprised to see a headline like that from Al Jazeera.
Steve

"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

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http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/FFC14534-A101-414E-94B5-39A81455D750.htm

Al Jazeera?....Excellent source.

Some would say the same of CNN, in the same sarcastic tone of voice. I must have missed the conservative memo about everyone criticizing the president being untrustworthy. If you'd read the article you'd have seen it was a NBC program, I was just too lazy to find it on their website.

Life is ez
On the dz
Every jumper's dream
3 rigs and an airstream

[quade 4]

Full transcript http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4179618/.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[stevebabin 0]

"Some would say the same of CNN, in the same sarcastic tone of voice."
Or Fox, CBS, Voice of America, etc.
I agree with you.
I will consider the source of information when I listen to their version of the story.
As far as the memo, I missed it too... I have no problem with people criticizing the president. I'm happy to live in a place where I can

"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Do you see the irony in your question?

Must be a slow night for the left-wing Bush-bashers.

What I see is probably a legal case for libel and slander. Think about it. Suppose we start making up smack about you and then insinuate it must be true because you haven't proved it isn't. Surprises me to hear you promoting this BS Quade since I've heard you criticize people for doing exactly the same thing. Isn't it you who always goes on about how unfair it is to require someont to prove something didn't happen? So what does that make you?

[Amazon 7]

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Isn't it you who always goes on about how unfair it is to require someont to prove something didn't happen?

http://www.realchange.org/bushjr.htm#vietnam

On May 27, 1968, George Bush Jr. was 12 days away from losing his student draft deferment, at a time when 350 Americans a week were dying in combat. The National Guard, seen by many as the most respectable way to avoid Vietnam, had a huge waiting list -- a year and a half in Texas, over 100,000 men nationwide. Yet Bush and his family friends pulled strings, and the young man was admitted the same day he applied, regardless of any waiting list.

Bush's unit commander, Col. "Buck" Staudt, was so excited about his VIP recruit that he staged a special ceremony for the press so he could have his picture taken administering the oath (even though the official oath had been given by a captain earlier.)

Bush and his allies have tried to deny this with several changing stories, but Bush himself admits lobbying commander Staudt, who approved him, and court documents confirm that close family friend and oil magnate Sid Adger called Texas Speaker of the House Ben Barnes, who called General James Rose, the head of the Texas Air National Guard, to get Bush in. Rose, who is now dead, told his friend and former legislator Jake Johnson that "I got that Republican congressman's son from Houston into the Guard."

Staudt's unit, the 147th, was infamous as a nesting place for politically connected and celebrity draft avoiders. Democratic Senator Lloyd Bentsen's son was in the unit, as was Republican Senator John Tower's, both of Sid Adger's sons and at least 7 members of the Dallas Cowboys.

2. Took a 2 month vacation in Florida after 8 weeks in the Guard.
Just 8 weeks after joining, Bush was granted 2 months leave to go to Florida and work on a political campaign, the Senate race of Republican Edward Gurney. Bush took a leave every election season, in 1970 to work on his dad's campaign, and in 1972 to work in Alabama.

3. Skipped Officer Candidate School and got a special commission as 2nd Lt.
As soon as Bush completed basic training, his commander approved him for a "direct appointment", which made him an officer without having to go through the usual (and difficult) Officer Candidate School. This special procedure also got Bush into flight school, despite his very low scores on aptitude tests -- he scored 25% on a pilot aptitude test, the absolute lowest acceptable grade, and 50% for navigator aptitude. (Bush did score 95% on the easier officer quality test, but then again the average is 88%).

What made Bush's appointment doubly unusual was his total lack of special qualifications. This procedure was generally reserved for applicants with exceptional experience or skills, such as ROTC training or engineering, medical or aviation skills. Tom Hail, a historian for the Texas Air National Guard, reviewed the Guard's records on Bush for a special exhibit on his service after Bush became governor. Asked about Bush's direct appointment without special skills, Hail said "I've never heard of that. Generally they did that for doctors only, mostly because we needed extra flight surgeons."

Charles Shoemake, an Air Force veteran who later joined the Texas Air National Guard and retired as a full colonel, said that direct appointments were rare and hard to get, and required extensive credentials. Asked about Bush, he said "His name didn't hurt, obviously. But it was a commander's decision in those days."

Despite Bush Jr.'s weak qualifications, Col. Staudt was so excited about the direct appointment that he saged another special ceremony for the press, this time with Bush's father the congressman standing prominently in the background.

The direct appointment process was discontinued in the 1970s.

4. Assigned to a safe plane -- the F-102 -- that was being phased out.
As Bush has been quick to note, National Guard members do face the chance of being called up for active duty, though few actually did during the Vietnam war. So what a lucky break for Bush that he was assigned to fly the F-102 Delta Dagger, a plane already being phased out. In fact, the Air Force had ordered all overseas F-102 units shut down as of June 30, 1970 -- just 3 months after Bush finished his training. Since training is so airplane specific, Bush was guaranteed from the beginning to be safe from combat.

Bush's campaign has even used his training on the obsolete plane to justify his early discharge, almost a year before his scheduled discharge, since other F-102 pilots were also being released early. But they can't answer the obvious question -- why spend so much money to train a National Guardsman for 2 years on a plane that was already being phased out, at a time when the Guard was letting F102 pilots leave early due to oversupply?

5. Celebrity Political Date.
During his flight training, Bush's celebrity showed in a couple of ways. Most famously, President Nixon sent a jet to pick up the young flight student for a date with his daughter Tricia. Alas, the potential political marriage and dynasty was not to be. Also, the commencement speaker at Bush's graduation ceremony was -- his dad, Congressman George Bush Sr.

6. Illegal, overruled transfer to a base with no work.
In 1972, Bush once again wanted to work on a political campaign, this time in Alabama. He applied for a transfer to a nearly defunct base with no active training or work, the 9921st Air Reserve Squadrom at Maxwell Air Force Base in Alabama. Bush's supervisors approved, but a higher headquarters overruled them, noting that the unit had no regular drills.

Lt. Col. Reese Bricken, the unit's commander, told the Boston Globe "We met just one weeknight a month. We were only a postal unit. We had no airplanes. We had no pilots. We had no nothing." Even Albert Lloyd Jr., a retired Air Guard colonel who is helping the Bush campaign clarify the candidate's service, told the Globe he was mystified why Bush's superiors at the time would approve duty at such a unit. Lloyd was personnel director of the Texas Air Guard from 1969 to 1995.

Now, the officer who did that has stepped forward and very directly admitted that he tried to get the easiest possible assignment for Bush. The personnel officer in charge of Bush's 147th Fighter Group, now-retired Col. Rufus G. Martin, says he tried to give Bush a light load when he told him to apply to the 9921st Air Reserve Squadron in Montgomery, Ala. Martin said in an interview that he knew Bush wasn't eligible for the 9921st, an unpaid, general training squadron that met once a week to hear lectures on first aid and the like. "However," he said, "I thought it was worth a try. . . . It was the least participation of any type of unit."

7. Just didn't show up for a year -- with no punishment.
National Guard records and Bush's own supervisor's and friends show no sign of him attending any drills or performing any service for nearly a year, from May 1972 until May 1973. This period began with Bush moving to Alabama for a political campaign.

He later applied to transfer to a base that had no work; the transfer was first approved, then cancelled. Bush did nothing for several months; then in September he applied to transfer to Alabama's 187th Tactical Recon group for 3 months. This was approved, but the unit's commander, General William Turnipseed, and his then admnistrative officer, Kenneth Lott, have both said that Bush never showed up. "Had he reported in, I would have had some recall, and I do not," said Turnipseed. "I had been in Texas, done my flight training there. If we had had a first lieutenant from Texas, I would have remembered."

Bush claims that he did some work in Alabama, but can't remember any details. “I can’t remember what I did,” he said. “I just—I fulfilled my obligation." Despite 2 years of searching through hundreds of records, his campaign has been unable to find any record of Bush's service there, nor could they find a single fellow serviceman who remembers his presence. The best they could produce was an ex-girlfriend from Alabama -- Emily Marks --who said George told her he would have to do some Guard duty later that year (1972) in Montgomery. But all that confirms is that he knew of his obligation.

In December 1972, Bush returned to Houston and was scheduled to resume duty there. But in May 1973, Bush's supervising pilots wrote in his annual efficiency report: "Lt. Bush has not been observed at this unit during the period of the report" (i.e. through April 30, 1972). Bush described one of the supervisors, the late Col. Jerry Killian, as a personal friend, so it's likely he would have noticed Bush and given him the benefit of the doubt. Later that month, two special orders commanded Bush to appear for active duty. He served 36 days of active duty during May, June and July before leaving the Guard early.

Amazingly, Bush was not disciplined in any way for his absence, and received an honorable discharge. Under Air National Guard rules at that time, guardsmen who missed duty could be reported to their Selective Service Board and inducted into the Army as draftees.

8. Skipped all his medical exams after they started drug tests.
In April 1972, the military started including routine drug tests in servicemen's annual physical exam, including urinalysis, questions about drugs and "a close examination of the nasal cavities" (for cocaine). According to the regulation, the medical took place in the month after the serviceman's birthday. For George W. Bush, this meant August 1972.

It was May, 1972 -- one month after the drug testing was announced -- that Bush stopped attending Guard duty. In August 1972, he was suspended from flight duty for failing to take his physical. (Click here to see the document.) A Bush campaign spokesman confirmed to the London Sunday Times that Bush knew he would be suspended. "He knew the suspension would have to take place." Bush never flew again, even though he returned to his Houston base where Guard pilots flew thousands of hours in the F-102 during 1973. The only barrier to him flying again was a medical exam (and his lack of attendance).

Careful readers will recall that when Bush issued his partial denial of drug use, he said (or implied) that he hadn't used them since 1974, but he pointedly refused to deny drug use before then, i.e. during his military service. Several sources have also indicated that it was in December, 1972 -- 4 months after his medical suspension -- that a drunk Bush Jr. challenged his father to a fist fight during an argument over the son's drunk driving. (He had run over a neighbor's garbage cans.) Shortly thereafter, Bush Sr. arranged for his son to do community service at an inner city Houston charity.

Bush's campaign aides first said he did not take the physical because he was in Alabama and his personal physician was in Houston. But flight physicals can be administered only by certified Air Force flight surgeons, and some were assigned at the time to Maxwell Air Force Base in Montgomery, where Bush was living. The staff now admits that this explanation was wrong.

9. Left service 10 months early.
Even after that easy stint, Bush couldn't fulfill his obligation. He quickly made up the missed days he had to and applied for an early release, before he had to take his next annual physical exam (with drug test.) While the official discharge date was October 1, 1973, Bush's last day in uniform was actually July 31 -- a full 10 months before the end of his 6-year, part time commitment. Al Gore also requested and received an early discharge (from the Army, in his case) to go to school.

Weasel words; his story keeps changing.
When asked about his service, Bush has lied, changed his story repeatedly, and weaseled in a manner eerily reminiscent of Bill Clinton. First of all, he has flat-out lied. In his official autobiography, ''A Charge to Keep,'' Bush said he flew with his unit for ''several years'' after finishing flight training in June 1970. His campaign biography states that he flew with the unit until he won release from the service in September 1973, nine months early, for graduate school. Both statements are lies. Bush only flew with the 111th for one year and 10 months, until April 1972 when he was suspended for failing to take his medical exam (and drug test), and never flew again.

Then there is his Clintonesque weaseling and word choice. Bush and his campaign claimed that no Bush family or friends pulled strings. Under pressure, this changed to "All I know is anybody named George Bush did not ask him [Ben Barnes] for help." By that he meant, himself or his dad. Of course, it later came out in court that a close Bush friend, Simon Adger, had asked Barnes to get Bush Jr. into the Guard, and that Barnes did so, via General Rose.

Now's it's not even clear that a George Bush didn't ask for help. When pressed, the former president's spokeswoman (Jean Becker) said he is "almost positive" that he and Mr. Adger never discussed the Guard matter. "He [Bush Sr.] he is fairly certain - I mean he doesn't remember everything that happened in the 1960s..." In any case, Bush Sr. and Adger were very close. Ms. Becker acknowledged that "President Bush knew Sid Adger well. He loved him." Adger may have needed only a hint.

Furthermore, George Bush Jr. admits that he knew Adger socially at the time, and further admits that he lobbied Col. "Buck" Staudt, the commander of the VIP unit Bush joined. Staudt claims that he, not General Rose (who he later replaced), was the one who made the decision on admissions anyway. Bush Jr. admits that he met Staudt in late 1967, during Christmas vacation of his senior year, called him later, and -- in Bush's words -- "found out what it took to apply."

When asked how Bush came to call Staudt, his spokeswoman Karen Hughes said he "heard from friends while he was home over the Christmas break that ... Colonel Staudt was the person to contact." She says that Bush doesn't recall who those "friends" were. But we know that Sid Adger was also a friend of Staudt's, served with him on the Houston Chamber of Commerce's Aviation Committee, and in 1967 held a luncheon honoring Gen. Staudt and his unit for winning an Air Force commendation. In fact, both of Adger's sons also joined General Staudt's unit, in 1966 and 1968 respectively.

Bush and his staff also claim that he vaulted ahead of the Air Guard waiting list because he was willing to fly an airplane, and there were openings. There is nothing to support this claim, however. For one thing, the F-102 was being phased out at the time and F-102 pilots were being released from service early, as indeed Bush himself was. And Tom Hail, a historian for the Texas Air National Guard, says flatly that there was no pilot shortage in the Guard squadron at that time. Bush's unit had 27 pilots at the time he applied; while they were authorized for 29 pilots, there were two more already in training and one awaiting a transfer.

Bush also weasels on whether he was avoiding combat or not. He has stated on several occasions that he did not want to be an infantryman, and acknowledges that he came to oppose the war itself. He claims that he joined the guard to fly planes, and would have been happy to go to Vietnam, but ignores the obvious choice of the Air Force or the Navy -- which his dad, a genuine war hero, joined. Furthermore, when he signed up for the Guard, he checked a box saying "Do not volunteer for overseas service." Later, he made a perfunctory application to transfer to a program called "Palace Alert", which dispatched F-102 pilots to Europe or the Far East -- and just occasionally Vietnam -- for 3 or 6 month assignments. But Bush was not nearly qualified, as he must have known, and was immediately turned down, and the F-102 not used overseas after June, 1970 in any case.

And, as noted above, his story also changed on why he refused to take a medical exam -- including a drug test - in 1972. (The refusal ended Bush's flying career.) His staff first claimed that he didn't take the physical because he was in Alabama and his personal physician was in Houston. But flight physicals can be administered only by certified Air Force flight surgeons, and there were surgeons assigned at the time to Maxwell Air Force Base in Montgomery, where Bush was living. His staff now admits that that explanation was "wrong", without saying where it came from or what the real reason was. Draft & National Guard Sources

[quade 4]

Man . . . you just don't get it do you?

I'm not saying that GWB did or didn't serve. That's not the point AT ALL.

The point is that much like Hussien not being able to prove he didn't have WMDs, GWB can't prove he served and the press can't prove he didn't.

That's all.

It's an ironic position for him to be in.

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Isn't it you who always goes on about how unfair it is to require someont to prove something didn't happen? So what does that make you?

Observant.

The reporters can't prove GWB didn't serve.

GWBs responce -should be- "Prove I didn't serve."

Maybe if you quit trying to pick a fight with every observation I make, you'd see I'm actually just pointing out the stupid stuff.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[newsstand 0]

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Why is it up to GWB to prove he completed his Nat'l Guard training 32 years ago? Apparently the Nat'l Guard had no problem because he was given an HONERABLE DISCHARGE. Why doesn't anyone accusing him of this and perpetrating this crap come up with some facts instead of this BS innuendo? Duh, maybe because they can't? Could it be?

Because maybe he didn't do it the way a person would be required to do it today? Or an ordinary person would be required to do it then.

Boston Globe article quoted in the Austin American-Statesman (Texas paper) today. These are short notes conveying the main thrust,.

"Bush received an honorable discharge in 1973. The records contain no evidence that Bush didn't report for required Guard duty for a full year during his six-year National Gurad enistment." However, "A study of the record by The Boston Globe in 2000 unearthed official reports by Bush's Guard commander that they didn't see him for a year."

This article goes on about how even his friends couldn't say he was fulfilling his commitment. Some in Houston said they thoght he was doing his duty in Alabama but no one there ever saw him.

Finally the article says: "Lloyd said he beleived that after Bush's drought [a year of no shows] the drills that were crammed into the months before Bush's early release gained enough 'points' to satisfy the minimal requirements to earn his discharge."

Albert Lloyd is a retired Colonel who was the Texas Air National Guard personel officer at the time of GWBs duty. Text in [] is from me.

"Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening."
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes

[skycop 0]

Ya know,
Who gives a puck!! The man was (at one time) a fully qualified fighter pilot. The guard is VERY political, always has been always will be. However, the man did strap himself into several thousand pounds of aluminium built by the lowest bidder. That is in no way not a worthy accomplishment. Many of those throwing stones have NEVER served in the military.
Look at the issues, make a choice. If you choose not to go to the polls then shut the puck up and deal with whomever wins.
Maybe I'll start a thread about John Kerry and rich women................

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[newsstand 0]

You have way more percervirence than I. Way to go girl!

"Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening."
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes

[newsstand 0]

OK, so I have served and I have lived in Texas under GWB as a "leader" and I think he sucks. What now?

So freaking what that he piloted an aircraft, would you vote for your local diver driver for president? He took the easy way out. Like or dislike Clinton his choice was less BS. Stay a student as long as you can to avoid the war. Besides Kerry and Clark beat the crap out of GWB on this topic.

I will go to the polls and I will vote AGAINST GWB. I would like to vote FOR someone but that won't be an option unless Clark suddenly leaps to the forefront.

"Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening."
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes

[Jimbo 0]

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I will go to the polls and I will vote AGAINST GWB. I would like to vote FOR someone but that won't be an option unless Clark suddenly leaps to the forefront.

I find the idea of voting against someone, but not for someone else to be a little bit absurd, a wasted vote, even. There's always the Green party, the Libertarian party, the Constitution party, etc... The point is that we don't live in a two party system, at least we don't have to.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[ltdiver 3]

So, in and among all this 'Clintonese' behavior, he -did- receive an honorable discharge from the National Guard. And that was the point being debated.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[newsstand 0]

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Quote

I will go to the polls and I will vote AGAINST GWB. I would like to vote FOR someone but that won't be an option unless Clark suddenly leaps to the forefront.

I find the idea of voting against someone, but not for someone else to be a little bit absurd, a wasted vote, even. There's always the Green party, the Libertarian party, the Constitution party, etc... The point is that we don't live in a two party system, at least we don't have to.

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Jim

I can't disagree with you. Unfortunately if you look at any of these folks overall picture I can't agree with it as much as I do with the Democrat party. If I have no opinion on a particular slot I do pick one of the alternative parties just to scare the mainstream.

I don't want to see a repeat of the last election where Ralph Nader was the real spoiler, not Florida.

edit to fix typo.

"Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening."
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes

[skycop 0]

What topic would that be? My military service can beat up your military service? Kerry and Clark were both decorated veterans and I respect that. But their politics are what I question. The current democratic party seems to use the "finger in the wind" leadership style and I think that SUCKS at this point in history.
Kerry's voting record does not jive with my beliefs. As far as Clark goes, he is too much of an unknown. When he first tested the politcal waters he seemed to have a little party confusion.
I'm a registered republican but I vote the canidate on issues I agree or disagree with, not party lines.
And flying an F-102 is far different from flying a twin otter (no disrespect to all fine jump pilots).
Let's stick to known facts and keep the smoke away as much as possible.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"