Stay on Execution of K. Cooper Upheld by Supreme Court

[PhillyKev 0]

I know that....he originally said that if 1 out of every 1000 innocent people were put to death, that would be acceptable. That's about 300,000 in the US.

What he meant to say was if 1 in every 1000 people put to death were actually innocent, that would be acceptable to him.

Like I said, much more reasonable.....still not acceptable to me though. I just don't see any benefit whatsoever derived from the other 999 executions to justify that 1 innocent.

[lawrocket 3]

And I agree with you there.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Tonto 1]

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I consider it an (*) attack

Attacked by a question. I think you're sensitive. (* Latin removed - I don't understand it)

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I go about my day armed to the teeth, in most people's view (if they only knew it). Does that mean I'm not peaceful?

Yes. I went about my day armed to the teeth for nearly 2 decades. One day I killed two men. It was a profoundly violent act that would not have occured had I not been armed, prepaired and willing to take such action. You are as peaceful as a trap, carefully camoflaged in a forest. It makes no sound, and waits patiently to be sprung. A human land mine, waiting to be stepped on. I've been you. This is not peaceful, as the very preparation for your peace is steeped in violence. I still train - I still condition - as I'm unable to extinguish the mindset, but I don't carry anymore, and I walk away a lot. I cannot unset the trap - but I can take the edge off the blade.

I admire the fact that you strive for peace while being armed to the teeth, although experience has taught me that if violence is an option, you are more likely to choose that option, whether your action is justified or not. If you meet your mindset in another body one day - the likelyhood of conflict is high.

I don't question your enthusiasm for guns or knives, as I share them with you.

I do strive to preserve life. I'm trying to do better than I was.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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So, 1 in a 1000 innocent people are put to death is acceptable? That's about 300,000 people. Is that your yearly acceptable rate?

Specious. Completely specious. The "1 in a 1000" figure is not to say that we'd immediately kill one in a thousand people in the population! It means that for every thousand people executed, one of them was not actually guilty! Come on, stay with us, Kev.
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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[Kennedy 0]

another firm believer that the trigger pulls the finger.

any other "seething cauldrons of homicidal rage" out there?

ad hominem (latin) this is when one attacks the person because one is unable or unwilling to attack their argument or logic.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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I consider it an (*) attack

Attacked by a question. I think you're sensitive. (* Latin removed - I don't understand it)

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I go about my day armed to the teeth, in most people's view (if they only knew it). Does that mean I'm not peaceful?

Yes. I went about my day armed to the teeth for nearly 2 decades. One day I killed two men. It was a profoundly violent act that would not have occured had I not been armed, prepaired and willing to take such action. You are as peaceful as a trap, carefully camoflaged in a forest. It makes no sound, and waits patiently to be sprung. A human land mine, waiting to be stepped on. I've been you. This is not peaceful, as the very preparation for your peace is steeped in violence. I still train - I still condition - as I'm unable to extinguish the mindset, but I don't carry anymore, and I walk away a lot. I cannot unset the trap - but I can take the edge off the blade.

I admire the fact that you strive for peace while being armed to the teeth, although experience has taught me that if violence is an option, you are more likely to choose that option, whether your action is justified or not. If you meet your mindset in another body one day - the likelyhood of conflict is high.

I don't question your enthusiasm for guns or knives, as I share them with you.

I do strive to preserve life. I'm trying to do better than I was.

t

I've gotten quite used to being a living paradox. I make no pretense that some things about me don't necessarily jibe with other things about me. I guess my interest in guns and knives was a "nurture v. nature" thing: if my brother weren't around with said interest to pass it along to me (he is 9 years my senior) who knows if I would have developed these interests.

I do not consider it an oxymoron to be peaceful and prepared. It is the difference in INTENT. I do not go around victimizing anyone. I live my life peacefully, keeping to myself and doing no harm -- in fact, helping when and where I can. To say, though, that I am not peaceful just because I remain ready to do harm to those who come to me seeking to do me harm, is not accurate.

I don't know anything about you, your past, or the reason you said you killed two people. Frankly, you are the only person I know who has killed people. (Granted, I may easily know someone who's done so but I simply don't know it.) I understand what you're saying about having the means to kill at hand making it easier to kill -- I just don't agree that I am as susceptible to having that happen as you imply. In fact, I have faced situations where, if I were that hotheaded, I could have escalated the matter to violence simply because I did have a gun on me. I chose to evade and flee, and I lived and they lived and neither had to face deadly violence. I favor discretion over valor. I also understand my legal obligations regarding use of deadly force. Further, I also have no great wish to kill anyone. I strongly disagree, however, with the notion of blaming the availability of a weapon for a killing. There is a complex issue of causation, there. Those predisposed to kill will avail themselves of weapons. It is not necessarily true that a weapon at hand induces a desire to kill. Besides which, there are many things besides guns and knives that can be used to kill, and they cannot be kept from being available at all times.
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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[Tonto 1]

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another firm believer that the trigger pulls the finger.

No.

The finger pulls the trigger in each and every case.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[Tonto 1]

PM'd you.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[kallend 2,151]

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I know that....he originally said that if 1 out of every 1000 innocent people were put to death, that would be acceptable. That's about 300,000 in the US.

What he meant to say was if 1 in every 1000 people put to death were actually innocent, that would be acceptable to him.

Like I said, much more reasonable.....still not acceptable to me though. I just don't see any benefit whatsoever derived from the other 999 executions to justify that 1 innocent.

After careful examination in Illinois it seems that the ratio was way higher than 0.1%, or even 1%. And to those who claim that the system worked because the innocent men were finally exonerated - BOLLOCKS! The system failed them and they would be dead now were it not for the efforts of people working outside the system - primarily law students and journalism students. The system tried to block these efforts at every turn.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[JohnRich 4]

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Yes. I went about my day armed to the teeth for nearly 2 decades. One day I killed two men. It was a profoundly violent act that would not have occured had I not been armed, prepaired and willing to take such action. You are as peaceful as a trap, carefully camoflaged in a forest. It makes no sound, and waits patiently to be sprung. A human land mine, waiting to be stepped on. I've been you... experience has taught me that if violence is an option, you are more likely to choose that option...

I think you may be making the mistake of assuming that everyone else is just like you. We're not. We're all different.

Just because you feel like you can't trust yourself with a gun, does not mean that no one else is trustworthy with a gun either.

I respect your choice, and have no problem with it. I'm all in favor of everyone having the freedom to make their own choices. What I'm against is when the anti-gun folks (not referring to you) try to take that choice away from people.

[JohnRich 4]

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another firm believer that the trigger pulls the finger.

No. The finger pulls the trigger in each and every case.

The presence of the trigger does not cause the finger to pull it. The gun is an inanimate object that has no power to make anyone do anything.

It is the conscious choice of the person holding the gun to pull the trigger. It's a human decision.

We should not blame guns for the conscious decisions of people. That's like blaming cars for drunk driving, or matches for arson. It's illogical and nonsensical.

[Nightingale 0]

a gun is simply a tool. whether it is a tool used for good or for evil depends entirely on the user.

[billvon 3,120]

>Just because you feel like you can't trust yourself with a gun, does
>not mean that no one else is trustworthy with a gun either.

He didn't suggest that. Indeed, he said that he likes guns, and he simply feels that not being armed to the teeth makes him less likely to use violence as a solution. I don't think that's a very startling realization. Having the means to do anything (drive, carry a gun, fly a plane) makes you more likely to both use and misuse the privledges thereof (drunk driving, shooting deaths, VFR flight into IMC.) Very few non-pilots die when they fly into IMC.

[JohnRich 4]

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>Just because you feel like you can't trust yourself with a gun, does
>not mean that no one else is trustworthy with a gun either.

He didn't suggest that. Indeed, he said that he likes guns, and he simply feels that not being armed to the teeth makes him less likely to use violence as a solution. I don't think that's a very startling realization.

Okay, perhaps I mis-read him.

But nevertheless, since guns should only be used in cases where deadly force is justified, then his position still doesn't quite make since. It should only be used when needed for legitimate defense against life-threatening or serious physical-harm force. Otherwise, you have the free will to not use it, when it's not justified. That's simply self-control, which we should all trust ourselves with.

I'd rather have it and not need it, then to need it and not have it.

[billvon 3,120]

>It should only be used when needed for legitimate defense against
> life-threatening or serious physical-harm force. Otherwise, you have
> the free will to not use it, when it's not justified.

Agreed, and if everyone did indeed subscribe to that philosophy, the entire issue of gun regulation would never have arisen in the first place.

[Tonto 1]

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Okay, perhaps I mis-read him.

You did. Completely.

I trust myself implicitly with a gun or any other deadly force application and my shooting was 100% justified, with no legal hangover whatsoever. Even 10 years later - I know it was exactly the right response at that time - or more death was certain. (They'd already shot someone.)

I also know that some people do some stupid things with guns - and if someone ever does that - like pointing a gun at me to scare me - and I'm armed - they're going to die if I'm armed - while I may just be scared if I'm not.

There are many people who just don't understand or accept the massive responsibility, the maintenance, care, discipline and mindset that go with being armed every minute of every day. They place themselves at risk more than they know, from angles they have not yet contemplated.

To use one of Murphy's laws of combat -

"Act unimportant. The enemy may be low on ammunition."

Many gun carriers don't follow that rule. This can result in another of Murphy's laws of combat.

"There's no such thing as friendly fire."

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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a gun is simply a tool. whether it is a tool used for good or for evil depends entirely on the user.

No, seriously now Kris, do you wanna get married? I could easily love a woman who thinks like you do!

Plus, the gun laws in FL are more lax than those in CA! And dropzones? We got dropzones!!
Can ya learn to love my cat?...
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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[Nightingale 0]

Jeffrey, I ADORE cats... I have two of my own... wonder if my two and yours would get along?

[Nightingale 0]

It is very true that having the means to defend yourself makes you more likely to do so.

Proportionally, more martial artists get into fights than non-MAists, that's a fact. Its because we have the tools available to us to defend ourselves, and use them when necessary. If someone does not have those tools avalable, the tools are not there to be used, and people try to find an alternate way out of the situation, usually by screaming or cooperating and looking for an escape route.

I've been in two fights. In both situations, had I a gun and the training, I'd have definitely used it, because I was in danger and it was clearly a self-defense situation. As it was, I used my martial arts, because those were the tools I had available. Its very simple, you use what you have.

[JohnRich 4]

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I also know that some people do some stupid things with guns - and if someone ever does that - like pointing a gun at me to scare me - and I'm armed - they're going to die if I'm armed - while I may just be scared if I'm not.

You left out the other part. They may not just be trying to scare you - they may be trying to kill you. So by not being armed for self-defense, you can end up dead yourself in those situations.

But you have the freedom of choice to be a victim if you wish. I prefer not to trust my life to criminals.