Gawain 0 #1 February 10, 2004 After 18 years of appeals, reviews, ranting, revised DNA tests...ugh..."suddenly" there's new evidence? B*llf**king sh*t! What pisses me off more about this is the sudden Hollywood swell of sympathy. Look, opinion against Capital Punishment? Great! Fine. Demonstrate against it all you can if you want. But don't start chiming in on sudden innocence for this mother-f*ck*r of a scumbag. This case is now protracted for untold number of years. Here's a news link (it's an AP article on Fox): http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,110931,00.htmlSo I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #2 February 10, 2004 I'm not in favour of the death penalty. If I was, I'd want to be sure the right person was executed. It's been 18 years. it's your system. It's a good system. What's your hurry? The dude's not going anywhere. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #3 February 10, 2004 QuoteI'm not in favour of the death penalty. If I was, I'd want to be sure the right person was executed. It's been 18 years. it's your system. It's a good system. What's your hurry? The dude's not going anywhere. t People say this in view of the fact that the convict gets to spend that time in prison, which presumably is not pleasant. The problem is that it leaves the family of a person who's been murdered hanging, waiting for justice, for that length of time, too. I'm not familiar with the case cited. Specifics, someone?-Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #4 February 10, 2004 Quotethe convict gets to spend that time in prison, which presumably is not pleasant. That's quite a presumption... Do you think the family would feel better if he were put to death and then be told they got the wrong guy? If he did it - they'll get him. If he never did it - I'm guessing the 3 men who have been free for 18 years are probably long gone. If I'd just escaped from prison on a burglary charge - I don't think my 1st move would be to hack a family of four to death. So is "peacefuljeffrey" in favour of the death penalty? If the answer is yes... I'm glad your name's not "vengefuljeffrey" What would you be in favour of then? tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jmpnkramer 0 #5 February 10, 2004 QuoteIf he did it - they'll get him. He has obviously already been convicted by a jury of his peers. I am not saying that mistakes are made but with the new DNA testing there is actually no doubt. I see you are not from this country so I do not expect you to fully understand our system. This individual has had over 18 years to find a way to provide evidence. No, it is not easy when you are incarcerated but it can be done. Just briefing the article I recon one more DNA test is not that big of a deal. If however it comes back positive then he should be put down immediately. Something that a majority of people do not realize is the cost to house a prisoner. I know in Florida it is in the neighborhood of $35,000 a year. That is more than the average citizen makes. With the new ways of being able to determine if someone commited a crime I do not see why they should be on Death row anymore than 5 years. This should give them ample time to do any re-testing necessary. If you don't put yourself in a bad situation to begin with you have nothing to worry about. Laters, .The REAL KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER! "HESITATION CAUSES DEATH!!!" "Be Slow to Fall into Friendship; but when Thou Art in, Continue Firm & Constant." - SOCRATES Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #6 February 10, 2004 Quote If you don't put yourself in a bad situation to begin with you have nothing to worry about. Laters, . I would like to see you say that IN PERSON to the 13 exonerated death row inmates from Illinois. All railroaded there by police or prosecutorial misconduct (or both).... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Antithesis 0 #7 February 10, 2004 QuoteSomething that a majority of people do not realize is the cost to house a prisoner. I know in Florida it is in the neighborhood of $35,000 a year. That is more than the average citizen makes. So Kramer, What is the cost of a persons life? I personally am in favor of work camps so that the prisioners can pay for themselves. But if we as a society allow the death penalty the blood is on all of our hands. I travel the land, Work in the ocean, Play in the sky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beezyshaw 0 #8 February 10, 2004 I didn't know Kate Cooper was on death row! I Now I see why other people always answer the phone at Square 1. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RevJim 0 #9 February 10, 2004 QuoteI didn't know Kate Cooper was on death row! I Now I see why other people always answer the phone at Square 1. Whew! Thanks for saying what I was thinking! I was thinking "Damn woman! What did you do over in Thailand?!?!?" It's your life, live it! Karma RB#684 "Corcho", ASK#60, Muff#3520, NCB#398, NHDZ#4, C-33989, DG#1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #10 February 10, 2004 QuoteI see you are not from this country so I do not expect you to fully understand our system. I do understand your system. I was commending it's function - which we're witnessing at present. Personally, I don't think a "jury of your peers" is a very scientific way of trying people. Some other countries have a Judge and 2 assessors, a more "proffesional" forum, less prone to being swayed by popular sentiment or "dream team" lawyers. But it's a system, and as you move higher through it, all it's checks and balances come into play, which is nice if ever you find yourself in the wrong place at the wrong time... tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
benny 0 #11 February 10, 2004 Just a question for all my death penalty advocates out there. Which do you consider the lesser evil, a system which may let a few (hell even a few hundred) guilty people go, or one in which one innocent person is put to death? Never go to a DZ strip show. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mdwhalen 0 #12 February 10, 2004 There is a really interesting new book out by the lawyer/author Scott Turow examining the death penalty issue. He claims to have started out on the fence having both prosecuted and defended death penalty cases. I won't spoil the ending and tell you what side he ends up taking. "Ultimate Punishment: A Lawyer's Reflections on Dealing With the Death Penalty""I have magic buttons ;)." skymama Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #13 February 10, 2004 Quote The problem is that it leaves the family of a person who's been murdered hanging, waiting for justice, for that length of time, too. I entirely reject the notion that getting revenge for a murder is somehow "justice". The purpose of a justice system should be to reform and/or punish. It should not be to give revenge to families. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobsled92 0 #14 February 10, 2004 QuoteQuote The problem is that it leaves the family of a person who's been murdered hanging, waiting for justice, for that length of time, too. I entirely reject the notion that getting revenge for a murder is somehow "justice". >The purpose of a justice system should be to >reform and/or punish. It should not be to give >revenge to families. ********I agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! castration and lobotomies would actually make an " XYY chromosome" person publicly safer in honest medical methods. THis is somehting that was done in the past. The humane way to go for prevention of future victims. People that harm others are NOT happy in their lives and a life without rage would be kinder for all invovled. Criminal behaviour (not crime of passion or love of protecting your child/spouse) is a disorder. So people are "lucky" to get help BEFORE something goes wrong. They take their medication every day and try to enjoy life as a "calmer & rashional " person. In the past I was for the death penalty but, I can not agree to take a life. Medically defusing a person is the answer to truly STOPPING another harmful act._______________________________ If I could be a Super Hero, I chose to be: "GRANT-A-CLAUS". and work 365 days a Year. http://www.hangout.no/speednews/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,120 #15 February 10, 2004 They're gonna execute Kate? What did she do now? This didn't have anything to do with that elephant, did it? That was all Scott's doing, not Kate's! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lawrocket 3 #16 February 10, 2004 Actually, it should be interesting. I have little doubt that this "new" evidence will show that he was actually guilty of the crime. Even the InnocenceProject, which conducts DNA testing to free those wrongly convicted, often confirms the guilt of the accused. Why not go for it? Then we can can die of old age waiting for Mike Farrell and Jesse Jackson (who had some very interesting quotes about the system and the evil Supreme Court yesterday) to declare to the press that the system works and the guy was guilty. Hmm, I wonder if Jesse Jackson is adverse to maintaining this stay, since the Supreme Court allowed it (the Supremes can't be right, you know.) Yes, I'm pissed that this stay, which could have been granted years ago, is granted hours before the execution. Why not go back to the day of Robert Alto Harris, who was pulled from the death chamber a couple of times due to stays? My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #17 February 10, 2004 If you're going to execute someone, do ALL the testing on ALL the evidence. This stay is hinging around a fistfull of blond hair found in the hand of one of the victims. If it can be confirmed that this hair belonged to a victim or family member, fine. If the hair is someone else's, that puts Cooper's guilt severely in doubt. FIVE members of the original jury have asked for this stay, as they were not told about the hair and feel that it was important evidence that could've changed the outcome of the trial. Do the test and find out. Waiting a bit more to kill someone isn't going to make a whole lot of difference. He still ends up dead. And if the evidence shows that the hair belonged to an unknown party, we may have prevented the execution of an innocent man. Examine all the evidence thoroughly and remove all reasonable doubt. If we're going to execute people, we need to be damn sure we've got the right guy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lawrocket 3 #18 February 10, 2004 I suppose I was vague in the "Why not go for it?" comment. I meant we should do the testing. So his execution is delayed by a few months. In the end, it will show that the system works whether his guilt is affirmed or innocence demonstrated. I think that this stay itself lends credibility to our system. My issue is the timing of these stays. It always happens right before - not days, weeks or months before. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #19 February 10, 2004 wasn't replying directly to you, you were just the last post. I agree. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,150 #20 February 10, 2004 QuoteI suppose I was vague in the "Why not go for it?" comment. I meant we should do the testing. So his execution is delayed by a few months. In the end, it will show that the system works whether his guilt is affirmed or innocence demonstrated. Quote Really? Two successive governors of Illinois have sufficiently serious doubt that the system can ever be made to work that executions are suspended indefinitely. Your naive belief in the DNA evidence is predicated on a lack of corruption in the crime lab. Something we in Illinois have learned is quite possible. We have seen misconduct at every level of the justice system here.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Shotgun 1 #21 February 10, 2004 QuoteI didn't know Kate Cooper was on death row! That's what I thought when I saw this thread... Damn, Kate must have done something really naughty in Thailand! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peacefuljeffrey 0 #22 February 10, 2004 QuoteJust a question for all my death penalty advocates out there. Which do you consider the lesser evil, a system which may let a few (hell even a few hundred) guilty people go, or one in which one innocent person is put to death? I have to give this a qualified answer. See, I understand and realize that the system we have has convicted innocent people, and will continue to do so. I don't like that reality, but that's the reality. Now, IF the system is applied in a sound, rational, egalitarian and honest way, I firmly believe in the death penalty. I believe that there are some people in society who have NO PLACE in society, because of their nature and their willingness to commit crimes against the rest of the population. They are sociopaths and I don't believe that we can come NEAR to making them "fit for society" through counseling or whatever. Furthermore, I believe that after some particular crimes, one has FORFEITED his right to live, indeed his right to have anyone even CARE whether he gets another chance, or has a chance to rehabilitate himself. Sorry, fella, you shoulda thought about that before you did the crime. You can't go and rob, rape and murder a family of four and then say, "Oh, please, I can become a 'productive member of society' again, just imprison me and counsel me!" Here, I got somethin' for ya: How about a nice, heaping bowl of 'Too Fuckin' Bad"?! So, if we use as a given premise that the system itself will not function in a corrupt way, I believe that the death penalty is good and proper. I also acknowledge that NO system made by man can be 100% accurate and flawless, so yes, even in the fairest application of the death penalty (even with no malfeasance involved), we will have some percentage of wrongful convictions. And I guess I feel that I would rather see that one good faith wrongful conviction (again, stipulating no malfeasance in sending an innocent man to death just to have a prosecutor's numbers look good) than to see 100 actually guilty men go free. Why? Because those 100 men will do far more harm in their future crimes than the harm of that one in one thousand wrongly being sentenced to death. I think of the people who have been harmed by parolees who really should have been in prison, and I think, "Hey, we're talking about MURDERERS being set free in error (hypothetically)! That's even WORSE!"-Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peacefuljeffrey 0 #23 February 10, 2004 QuoteQuote The problem is that it leaves the family of a person who's been murdered hanging, waiting for justice, for that length of time, too. I entirely reject the notion that getting revenge for a murder is somehow "justice". The purpose of a justice system should be to reform and/or punish. It should not be to give revenge to families. _Am I don't reject the idea of PUNISHING a person with an appropriate punishment. And since a murderer took a life, he or she gets to lose life. One does not have to see it as vengeance. In fact, I do not see it as vengeance. I see it as society ridding itself of its garbage, which is necessary to the safer and happier functioning of society. When I made that comment, I was referring to the notion of WHY we decide to let convicted murderers sit on death row for 18 years when their conviction has been accomplished in the standard way in which we decide whether someone is guilty or not. We do the best we can. Just because our best is not always perfect or accurate is not a reason to just not try to make a finding of guilt, or be willing to trust that finding and act on it. I DO reject this touchy-feely new-agey bleeding-heart MODERN notion that prison is supposed to REFORM inmates. It's been used as PUNISHMENT from the beginning of civilization. We don't have the ability to make sure that someone's faulty, violent, criminal brain is successfully rewired -- and at risk in the grand experiment, should we let such a specimen back out, is the rest of the innocent population. Society does not owe it to violent criminals to spend scads of money trying to make them better people. Society does not unlimited second chances to criminals. I firmly believe that you can pass a point where society should care about you: YOU knew the rules, YOU knew right from wrong (everything tells you that murder is wrong) and you still did it. So YOU now pay the ultimate price. We don't have to pay it for you.-Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites crapflinger2000 1 #24 February 10, 2004 1000% in favor of death penalty!!!! But.... 1000% against the state being in a rush to perform sentence... If the state is going to take a life, it should only occur after ALL available options and legal recourse available to the accused are exhausted. If some judge found some credence in what the lawyers came up with and put it on hold, that's fine with me! There HAVE been cases of wrongful execution. We need to make every effort to avoid this. Otherwise we are no better than the criminals. On a similar theme, I think we need to make sure that dealth penalties are as painless as possible. It's about justice, not vengeance. Recent evidence suggests that even the "painless" lethal injection is anything but... __________________________________________________ What would Vic Mackey do? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Tonto 1 #25 February 11, 2004 t's edit.. QuoteI have to give this a qualified answer. I firmly believe in the death penalty. There are some people who have NO PLACE in society, one has FORFEITED his right to live. How about a nice, heaping bowl of 'Too Fuckin' Bad"?! I believe that the death penalty is good and proper. Even in the fairest application of the death penalty we will have wrongful convictions. I would see that one wrongful conviction. (sending an innocent man to death) I don't reject the idea of PUNISHING a person with an appropriate punishment. And since a murderer took a life, he or she gets to lose life. I do not see it as vengeance. I see it as society ridding itself of its garbage. I reject this touchy-feely new-agey bleeding-heart MODERN notion that prison is supposed to REFORM inmates. Society does not owe it to violent criminals to spend scads of money trying to make them better people. I firmly believe that you can pass a point where society should care about you: ---Jeffrey You're not very peaceful at all, are you? tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 1 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
billvon 3,120 #15 February 10, 2004 They're gonna execute Kate? What did she do now? This didn't have anything to do with that elephant, did it? That was all Scott's doing, not Kate's! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #16 February 10, 2004 Actually, it should be interesting. I have little doubt that this "new" evidence will show that he was actually guilty of the crime. Even the InnocenceProject, which conducts DNA testing to free those wrongly convicted, often confirms the guilt of the accused. Why not go for it? Then we can can die of old age waiting for Mike Farrell and Jesse Jackson (who had some very interesting quotes about the system and the evil Supreme Court yesterday) to declare to the press that the system works and the guy was guilty. Hmm, I wonder if Jesse Jackson is adverse to maintaining this stay, since the Supreme Court allowed it (the Supremes can't be right, you know.) Yes, I'm pissed that this stay, which could have been granted years ago, is granted hours before the execution. Why not go back to the day of Robert Alto Harris, who was pulled from the death chamber a couple of times due to stays? My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #17 February 10, 2004 If you're going to execute someone, do ALL the testing on ALL the evidence. This stay is hinging around a fistfull of blond hair found in the hand of one of the victims. If it can be confirmed that this hair belonged to a victim or family member, fine. If the hair is someone else's, that puts Cooper's guilt severely in doubt. FIVE members of the original jury have asked for this stay, as they were not told about the hair and feel that it was important evidence that could've changed the outcome of the trial. Do the test and find out. Waiting a bit more to kill someone isn't going to make a whole lot of difference. He still ends up dead. And if the evidence shows that the hair belonged to an unknown party, we may have prevented the execution of an innocent man. Examine all the evidence thoroughly and remove all reasonable doubt. If we're going to execute people, we need to be damn sure we've got the right guy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #18 February 10, 2004 I suppose I was vague in the "Why not go for it?" comment. I meant we should do the testing. So his execution is delayed by a few months. In the end, it will show that the system works whether his guilt is affirmed or innocence demonstrated. I think that this stay itself lends credibility to our system. My issue is the timing of these stays. It always happens right before - not days, weeks or months before. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #19 February 10, 2004 wasn't replying directly to you, you were just the last post. I agree. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #20 February 10, 2004 QuoteI suppose I was vague in the "Why not go for it?" comment. I meant we should do the testing. So his execution is delayed by a few months. In the end, it will show that the system works whether his guilt is affirmed or innocence demonstrated. Quote Really? Two successive governors of Illinois have sufficiently serious doubt that the system can ever be made to work that executions are suspended indefinitely. Your naive belief in the DNA evidence is predicated on a lack of corruption in the crime lab. Something we in Illinois have learned is quite possible. We have seen misconduct at every level of the justice system here.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Shotgun 1 #21 February 10, 2004 QuoteI didn't know Kate Cooper was on death row! That's what I thought when I saw this thread... Damn, Kate must have done something really naughty in Thailand! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peacefuljeffrey 0 #22 February 10, 2004 QuoteJust a question for all my death penalty advocates out there. Which do you consider the lesser evil, a system which may let a few (hell even a few hundred) guilty people go, or one in which one innocent person is put to death? I have to give this a qualified answer. See, I understand and realize that the system we have has convicted innocent people, and will continue to do so. I don't like that reality, but that's the reality. Now, IF the system is applied in a sound, rational, egalitarian and honest way, I firmly believe in the death penalty. I believe that there are some people in society who have NO PLACE in society, because of their nature and their willingness to commit crimes against the rest of the population. They are sociopaths and I don't believe that we can come NEAR to making them "fit for society" through counseling or whatever. Furthermore, I believe that after some particular crimes, one has FORFEITED his right to live, indeed his right to have anyone even CARE whether he gets another chance, or has a chance to rehabilitate himself. Sorry, fella, you shoulda thought about that before you did the crime. You can't go and rob, rape and murder a family of four and then say, "Oh, please, I can become a 'productive member of society' again, just imprison me and counsel me!" Here, I got somethin' for ya: How about a nice, heaping bowl of 'Too Fuckin' Bad"?! So, if we use as a given premise that the system itself will not function in a corrupt way, I believe that the death penalty is good and proper. I also acknowledge that NO system made by man can be 100% accurate and flawless, so yes, even in the fairest application of the death penalty (even with no malfeasance involved), we will have some percentage of wrongful convictions. And I guess I feel that I would rather see that one good faith wrongful conviction (again, stipulating no malfeasance in sending an innocent man to death just to have a prosecutor's numbers look good) than to see 100 actually guilty men go free. Why? Because those 100 men will do far more harm in their future crimes than the harm of that one in one thousand wrongly being sentenced to death. I think of the people who have been harmed by parolees who really should have been in prison, and I think, "Hey, we're talking about MURDERERS being set free in error (hypothetically)! That's even WORSE!"-Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peacefuljeffrey 0 #23 February 10, 2004 QuoteQuote The problem is that it leaves the family of a person who's been murdered hanging, waiting for justice, for that length of time, too. I entirely reject the notion that getting revenge for a murder is somehow "justice". The purpose of a justice system should be to reform and/or punish. It should not be to give revenge to families. _Am I don't reject the idea of PUNISHING a person with an appropriate punishment. And since a murderer took a life, he or she gets to lose life. One does not have to see it as vengeance. In fact, I do not see it as vengeance. I see it as society ridding itself of its garbage, which is necessary to the safer and happier functioning of society. When I made that comment, I was referring to the notion of WHY we decide to let convicted murderers sit on death row for 18 years when their conviction has been accomplished in the standard way in which we decide whether someone is guilty or not. We do the best we can. Just because our best is not always perfect or accurate is not a reason to just not try to make a finding of guilt, or be willing to trust that finding and act on it. I DO reject this touchy-feely new-agey bleeding-heart MODERN notion that prison is supposed to REFORM inmates. It's been used as PUNISHMENT from the beginning of civilization. We don't have the ability to make sure that someone's faulty, violent, criminal brain is successfully rewired -- and at risk in the grand experiment, should we let such a specimen back out, is the rest of the innocent population. Society does not owe it to violent criminals to spend scads of money trying to make them better people. Society does not unlimited second chances to criminals. I firmly believe that you can pass a point where society should care about you: YOU knew the rules, YOU knew right from wrong (everything tells you that murder is wrong) and you still did it. So YOU now pay the ultimate price. We don't have to pay it for you.-Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites crapflinger2000 1 #24 February 10, 2004 1000% in favor of death penalty!!!! But.... 1000% against the state being in a rush to perform sentence... If the state is going to take a life, it should only occur after ALL available options and legal recourse available to the accused are exhausted. If some judge found some credence in what the lawyers came up with and put it on hold, that's fine with me! There HAVE been cases of wrongful execution. We need to make every effort to avoid this. Otherwise we are no better than the criminals. On a similar theme, I think we need to make sure that dealth penalties are as painless as possible. It's about justice, not vengeance. Recent evidence suggests that even the "painless" lethal injection is anything but... __________________________________________________ What would Vic Mackey do? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Tonto 1 #25 February 11, 2004 t's edit.. QuoteI have to give this a qualified answer. I firmly believe in the death penalty. There are some people who have NO PLACE in society, one has FORFEITED his right to live. How about a nice, heaping bowl of 'Too Fuckin' Bad"?! I believe that the death penalty is good and proper. Even in the fairest application of the death penalty we will have wrongful convictions. I would see that one wrongful conviction. (sending an innocent man to death) I don't reject the idea of PUNISHING a person with an appropriate punishment. And since a murderer took a life, he or she gets to lose life. I do not see it as vengeance. I see it as society ridding itself of its garbage. I reject this touchy-feely new-agey bleeding-heart MODERN notion that prison is supposed to REFORM inmates. Society does not owe it to violent criminals to spend scads of money trying to make them better people. I firmly believe that you can pass a point where society should care about you: ---Jeffrey You're not very peaceful at all, are you? tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 1 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
Shotgun 1 #21 February 10, 2004 QuoteI didn't know Kate Cooper was on death row! That's what I thought when I saw this thread... Damn, Kate must have done something really naughty in Thailand! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #22 February 10, 2004 QuoteJust a question for all my death penalty advocates out there. Which do you consider the lesser evil, a system which may let a few (hell even a few hundred) guilty people go, or one in which one innocent person is put to death? I have to give this a qualified answer. See, I understand and realize that the system we have has convicted innocent people, and will continue to do so. I don't like that reality, but that's the reality. Now, IF the system is applied in a sound, rational, egalitarian and honest way, I firmly believe in the death penalty. I believe that there are some people in society who have NO PLACE in society, because of their nature and their willingness to commit crimes against the rest of the population. They are sociopaths and I don't believe that we can come NEAR to making them "fit for society" through counseling or whatever. Furthermore, I believe that after some particular crimes, one has FORFEITED his right to live, indeed his right to have anyone even CARE whether he gets another chance, or has a chance to rehabilitate himself. Sorry, fella, you shoulda thought about that before you did the crime. You can't go and rob, rape and murder a family of four and then say, "Oh, please, I can become a 'productive member of society' again, just imprison me and counsel me!" Here, I got somethin' for ya: How about a nice, heaping bowl of 'Too Fuckin' Bad"?! So, if we use as a given premise that the system itself will not function in a corrupt way, I believe that the death penalty is good and proper. I also acknowledge that NO system made by man can be 100% accurate and flawless, so yes, even in the fairest application of the death penalty (even with no malfeasance involved), we will have some percentage of wrongful convictions. And I guess I feel that I would rather see that one good faith wrongful conviction (again, stipulating no malfeasance in sending an innocent man to death just to have a prosecutor's numbers look good) than to see 100 actually guilty men go free. Why? Because those 100 men will do far more harm in their future crimes than the harm of that one in one thousand wrongly being sentenced to death. I think of the people who have been harmed by parolees who really should have been in prison, and I think, "Hey, we're talking about MURDERERS being set free in error (hypothetically)! That's even WORSE!"-Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #23 February 10, 2004 QuoteQuote The problem is that it leaves the family of a person who's been murdered hanging, waiting for justice, for that length of time, too. I entirely reject the notion that getting revenge for a murder is somehow "justice". The purpose of a justice system should be to reform and/or punish. It should not be to give revenge to families. _Am I don't reject the idea of PUNISHING a person with an appropriate punishment. And since a murderer took a life, he or she gets to lose life. One does not have to see it as vengeance. In fact, I do not see it as vengeance. I see it as society ridding itself of its garbage, which is necessary to the safer and happier functioning of society. When I made that comment, I was referring to the notion of WHY we decide to let convicted murderers sit on death row for 18 years when their conviction has been accomplished in the standard way in which we decide whether someone is guilty or not. We do the best we can. Just because our best is not always perfect or accurate is not a reason to just not try to make a finding of guilt, or be willing to trust that finding and act on it. I DO reject this touchy-feely new-agey bleeding-heart MODERN notion that prison is supposed to REFORM inmates. It's been used as PUNISHMENT from the beginning of civilization. We don't have the ability to make sure that someone's faulty, violent, criminal brain is successfully rewired -- and at risk in the grand experiment, should we let such a specimen back out, is the rest of the innocent population. Society does not owe it to violent criminals to spend scads of money trying to make them better people. Society does not unlimited second chances to criminals. I firmly believe that you can pass a point where society should care about you: YOU knew the rules, YOU knew right from wrong (everything tells you that murder is wrong) and you still did it. So YOU now pay the ultimate price. We don't have to pay it for you.-Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crapflinger2000 1 #24 February 10, 2004 1000% in favor of death penalty!!!! But.... 1000% against the state being in a rush to perform sentence... If the state is going to take a life, it should only occur after ALL available options and legal recourse available to the accused are exhausted. If some judge found some credence in what the lawyers came up with and put it on hold, that's fine with me! There HAVE been cases of wrongful execution. We need to make every effort to avoid this. Otherwise we are no better than the criminals. On a similar theme, I think we need to make sure that dealth penalties are as painless as possible. It's about justice, not vengeance. Recent evidence suggests that even the "painless" lethal injection is anything but... __________________________________________________ What would Vic Mackey do? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #25 February 11, 2004 t's edit.. QuoteI have to give this a qualified answer. I firmly believe in the death penalty. There are some people who have NO PLACE in society, one has FORFEITED his right to live. How about a nice, heaping bowl of 'Too Fuckin' Bad"?! I believe that the death penalty is good and proper. Even in the fairest application of the death penalty we will have wrongful convictions. I would see that one wrongful conviction. (sending an innocent man to death) I don't reject the idea of PUNISHING a person with an appropriate punishment. And since a murderer took a life, he or she gets to lose life. I do not see it as vengeance. I see it as society ridding itself of its garbage. I reject this touchy-feely new-agey bleeding-heart MODERN notion that prison is supposed to REFORM inmates. Society does not owe it to violent criminals to spend scads of money trying to make them better people. I firmly believe that you can pass a point where society should care about you: ---Jeffrey You're not very peaceful at all, are you? tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
