OK Serious Topic Here: How many of YOU are between the ages of 18 and 26? Are YOU ready to go to WAR?

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

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I'm 25 and if I were somehow still eligible by the time the draft actually got reenstated (which I doubt will happen), and was drafted, then I guess I'd just have to pretend to be gay for a little while.

Thank you for your devotion to your country.

I'm glad that not all Americans had your attitude in 1775.

Why should anyone have to serve in a war he doesn't believe is right? Because some politicians feel it is right? Because you feel it is right?

Tell ya what, have Bush poll americans, non-anonymously, and see who thinks we should be at war. Then, if the majority thinks so, when they draft they go ahead and call them in.

Angela

[jdhill 0]

Having been a recruiter, and having 40 of them work for me for over two years, I can say that the vast majority of recruiters (At least the Army ones) are honest... Do they put the best spin on the Army they can? Sure they do, they are in sales. Do they lie about the Army? Some do, but every alligation of recruiter inpropriety is investigated to the fullest. And more often than not (by a large margin) it is some kid who found out they don't like it and is doing whatever they can to get out of it.

J

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[goose491 0]

I can't beleive the number of people here even supporting the concept of the draft! It's crazy! Likely because many DZ.commers are millitary but still, I would think a bunch of free spirits would be against something so damned autocratic.

I agree that all should serve their Country... but fightin' aint the only form of 'sevice' and forcing people to fight is just wrong... that's not IMO, that's fact.

I don't think it'll pass either... unless this 'war' escalates much further... WWIII-styles (Nick's prediction btw). I doubt Canada would do anything to help nail draft doggers. And I truly hope we wouldn't, I might add. We live in a true state of democracy over here and were happy to help those that didn't want to fight someones elses battles in the past.

Sigh, the more things change, the more they stay the same.

Draft. Makes me sick to my stomach. Can't find enough of your people to fight for you?... Perhaps you should reconsider your motives?

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[JohnRich 4]

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I'm 25 and if I were somehow still eligible by the time the draft actually got reenstated (which I doubt will happen), and was drafted, then I guess I'd just have to pretend to be gay for a little while.

Thank you for your devotion to your country.
I'm glad that not all Americans had your attitude in 1775.

Why should anyone have to serve in a war he doesn't believe is right?

No where in his statement did he state that a conscientious objection would be necessary before he would resist the draft. He just made a generic statement that he wouldn't serve, under any circumstances, whether the associated war was justified or not.

From what I gather from his statement, if Russia invaded his home town like in "Red Dawn", his response would be to act gay...

And note also that he says "for a little while". This means that he is willing to opt out, so that others will have to go off to fight on his behalf, until the problem is resolved. Nice.

[Douva 0]

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Why should anyone have to serve in a war he doesn't believe is right? Because some politicians feel it is right? Because you feel it is right?

No, because as a citizen of a country you are part of a "team," and that's the way the team works. You don't get to not pay your taxes because you don't like where the money is going, you don't get to abstain from jury duty because you don't believe in the death penalty, and you don't have an inherent right to decide when, where, and if you sacrifice for the right reap the benefits of living in an affluent western nation. This "#%@&, you! You're not the boss of me," attitude is relatively new, historically speaking. Traditionally, it has been understood that when your leaders decide something is worth fight for, you fight for it, and if you disagree strongly enough with the leaders, you fight the leaders. You don't just sit at home sipping lattes, watching five hundred channels of cable television, relaxing in your comfortable seventy-two degree climate controlled study; complaining about it on an Internet newsgroup.

One of the unfortunate facts of living in a "civilization" is that you have to be part of one of these teams. You don't get to just go and do as you please--That is called "anarchy." Fortunately for all of us living on the team called the United States of America, we actually get to elect the leaders who make the laws, and if we don't like the laws they're making, we get to vote them out of office. That's a luxury the common man hasn't had throughout most of recorded history. This arrangement generally keeps us from having to fight our own leaders, since we have another way of ending their rule.

Today you might have to fight for a cause you don't believe in but I do, and tomorrow I may have to fight for a cause I don't believe in but you do. It's called "majority rules." If you find yourself invariably in the minority, you can always seek out a country more in line with your way of thinking, or you can try living in a cave where nobody can find you. One of the great things about this country is that even the minority has rights and a voice. However, they still have to abide by the rulings of the majority. The only thing the majority can't rule against is the "inalienable rights" laid out in the Constitution. Only having to fight when you agree is not one of those rights.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[osuskydiver 0]

Also, if we were not willing to go and fight where our leaders tell us, then we would not have joined the military

By the time you read this you have already read it.

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

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Why should anyone have to serve in a war he doesn't believe is right? Because some politicians feel it is right? Because you feel it is right?

No, because as a citizen of a country you are part of a "team," and that's the way the team works. You don't get to not pay your taxes because you don't like where the money is going, you don't get to abstain from jury duty because you don't believe in the death penalty, and you don't have an inherent right to decide when, where, and if you sacrifice for the right reap the benefits of living in an affluent western nation. This "#%@&, you! You're not the boss of me," attitude is relatively new, historically speaking. Traditionally, it has been understood that when your leaders decide something is worth fight for, you fight for it, and if you disagree strongly enough with the leaders, you fight the leaders. You don't just sit at home sipping lattes, watching five hundred channels of cable television, relaxing in your comfortable seventy-two degree climate controlled study; complaining about it on an Internet newsgroup.

One of the unfortunate facts of living in a "civilization" is that you have to be part of one of these teams. You don't get to just go and do as you please--That is called "anarchy." Fortunately for all of us living on the team called the United States of America, we actually get to elect the leaders who make the laws, and if we don't like the laws they're making, we get to vote them out of office. That's a luxury the common man hasn't had throughout most of recorded history. This arrangement generally keeps us from having to fight our own leaders, since we have another way of ending their rule.

Today you might have to fight for a cause you don't believe in but I do, and tomorrow I may have to fight for a cause I don't believe in but you do. It's called "majority rules." If you find yourself invariably in the minority, you can always seek out a country more in line with your way of thinking, or you can try living in a cave where nobody can find you. One of the great things about this country is that even the minority has rights and a voice. However, they still have to abide by the rulings of the majority. The only thing the majority can't rule against is the "inalienable rights" laid out in the Constitution. Only having to fight when you agree is not one of those rights.

Sorry, I disagree. I am not willing to fight a fight I don't stand for. Just because some "elected" (and I say that VERY loosely) official decides to go to war, does not mean I will go. Yes, I pay taxes, but they pull that money out of my check. I do not willingly send it to them so that they can stuff most of the money in thier greedy pockets. I will not fight a war for these assholes if I don't believe in it. Furthermore, they can't make me. Unless they somehow take over my brain, they are not going to get me to go over to Iraq shooting and bombing. I'd sooner be deported.

It is not worth my energy to fight the politicians. It is a battle to be lost. It would be like voting in the election; No matter what the vote, Bush wins anyhow.

Angela.

[kallend 2,107]

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Why should anyone have to serve in a war he doesn't believe is right? Because some politicians feel it is right? Because you feel it is right?

No, because as a citizen of a country you are part of a "team," and that's the way the team works. You don't get to not pay your taxes because you don't like where the money is going, you don't get to abstain from jury duty because you don't believe in the death penalty, and you don't have an inherent right to decide when, where, and if you sacrifice for the right reap the benefits of living in an affluent western nation. This "#%@&, you! You're not the boss of me," attitude is relatively new, historically speaking. Traditionally, it has been understood that when your leaders decide something is worth fight for, you fight for it, and if you disagree strongly enough with the leaders, you fight the leaders. You don't just sit at home sipping lattes, watching five hundred channels of cable television, relaxing in your comfortable seventy-two degree climate controlled study; complaining about it on an Internet newsgroup.

One of the unfortunate facts of living in a "civilization" is that you have to be part of one of these teams. You don't get to just go and do as you please--That is called "anarchy." Fortunately for all of us living on the team called the United States of America, we actually get to elect the leaders who make the laws, and if we don't like the laws they're making, we get to vote them out of office. That's a luxury the common man hasn't had throughout most of recorded history. This arrangement generally keeps us from having to fight our own leaders, since we have another way of ending their rule.

Today you might have to fight for a cause you don't believe in but I do, and tomorrow I may have to fight for a cause I don't believe in but you do. It's called "majority rules." If you find yourself invariably in the minority, you can always seek out a country more in line with your way of thinking, or you can try living in a cave where nobody can find you. One of the great things about this country is that even the minority has rights and a voice. However, they still have to abide by the rulings of the majority. The only thing the majority can't rule against is the "inalienable rights" laid out in the Constitution. Only having to fight when you agree is not one of those rights.

I agree with pretty much everything you say, but would make this observation. It is frequently portrayed as unpatriotic not to serve in the military (especially but not exclusively by the right), but minimizing your tax liability is is fine.

Taxes are part of the "dues" we pay to have membership in an organized nation. In return for our dues we get certain services (use of roads and other infrastructure, military protection, scientific establishment, etc. bought by our predecessors). Wanting those services without paying our share of the dues is just plain greedy, yet we've attached a different name to it to make it sound worthy:- "tax relief".

As our current budget deficit indicates, tax relief is just a way of getting our share (or more) and expecting our kids to pay our membership dues.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Douva 0]

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Why should anyone have to serve in a war he doesn't believe is right? Because some politicians feel it is right? Because you feel it is right?

No, because as a citizen of a country you are part of a "team," and that's the way the team works. You don't get to not pay your taxes because you don't like where the money is going, you don't get to abstain from jury duty because you don't believe in the death penalty, and you don't have an inherent right to decide when, where, and if you sacrifice for the right reap the benefits of living in an affluent western nation. This "#%@&, you! You're not the boss of me," attitude is relatively new, historically speaking. Traditionally, it has been understood that when your leaders decide something is worth fight for, you fight for it, and if you disagree strongly enough with the leaders, you fight the leaders. You don't just sit at home sipping lattes, watching five hundred channels of cable television, relaxing in your comfortable seventy-two degree climate controlled study; complaining about it on an Internet newsgroup.

One of the unfortunate facts of living in a "civilization" is that you have to be part of one of these teams. You don't get to just go and do as you please--That is called "anarchy." Fortunately for all of us living on the team called the United States of America, we actually get to elect the leaders who make the laws, and if we don't like the laws they're making, we get to vote them out of office. That's a luxury the common man hasn't had throughout most of recorded history. This arrangement generally keeps us from having to fight our own leaders, since we have another way of ending their rule.

Today you might have to fight for a cause you don't believe in but I do, and tomorrow I may have to fight for a cause I don't believe in but you do. It's called "majority rules." If you find yourself invariably in the minority, you can always seek out a country more in line with your way of thinking, or you can try living in a cave where nobody can find you. One of the great things about this country is that even the minority has rights and a voice. However, they still have to abide by the rulings of the majority. The only thing the majority can't rule against is the "inalienable rights" laid out in the Constitution. Only having to fight when you agree is not one of those rights.

Sorry, I disagree. I am not willing to fight a fight I don't stand for. Just because some "elected" (and I say that VERY loosely) official decides to go to war, does not mean I will go. Yes, I pay taxes, but they pull that money out of my check. I do not willingly send it to them so that they can stuff most of the money in thier greedy pockets. I will not fight a war for these assholes if I don't believe in it. Furthermore, they can't make me. Unless they somehow take over my brain, they are not going to get me to go over to Iraq shooting and bombing. I'd sooner be deported.

It is not worth my energy to fight the politicians. It is a battle to be lost. It would be like voting in the election; No matter what the vote, Bush wins anyhow.

Angela.

So, basically, you're a revolutionary. You refuse to follow the ruling party and wish to see the current system of government replaced by one you deem "better." Unfortunately, you are a weak, lazy revolutionary whose efforts at social reform amount to sitting idly by proclaiming, "They can't make me," like a rebellious infant. Either fight the system's wars or fight the system, but be prepared to die, either way.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[Douva 0]

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It is frequently portrayed as unpatriotic not to serve in the military (especially but not exclusively by the right), but minimizing your tax liability is is fine.

Congratulations, you have identified one of the many hypocrisies of the two hypocritical leading political parties.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

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. Either fight the system's wars or fight the system, but be prepared to die, either way.

Or, I could just do neither, like i'm currently doing.

Angela.

[sdgregory 0]

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... that's not IMO, that's fact.

Um no that is opinion. Look up fact and look up opinion in the dictionary adn you will see htat the statement you are making is opinion.

Don't they teach the difference in school anymore?

[JohnRich 4]

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I am not willing to fight a fight I don't stand for. Just because some "elected" official decides to go to war, does not mean I will go... It is not worth my energy to fight the politicians. It is a battle to be lost. It would be like voting in the election; No matter what the vote, Bush wins anyhow.

So in other words, you don't like what the politicians are doing, yet you don't bother to vote to try and change what you don't like. Does that about sum it up?

What would it take to make you fight in the armed forces? How about if the Russians invaded Florida and started slaughtering children - would that do it?

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

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I am not willing to fight a fight I don't stand for. Just because some "elected" official decides to go to war, does not mean I will go... It is not worth my energy to fight the politicians. It is a battle to be lost. It would be like voting in the election; No matter what the vote, Bush wins anyhow.

So in other words, you don't like what the politicians are doing, yet you don't bother to vote to try and change what you don't like. Does that about sum it up?

What would it take to make you fight in the armed forces? How about if the Russians invaded Florida and started slaughtering children - would that do it?

Voting is pointless. Doesn't get us anywhere. Bush is in office, I honestly don't think he won.

If someone was here slaughtering innocent children, then they are no longer innocents. I believe that would do it.

In case you didn't know, we are not being attacked by Iraq.

Angela.

[skipro101 0]

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I agree that all should serve their Country... but fightin' aint the only form of 'sevice' and forcing people to fight is just wrong... that's not IMO, that's fact.

Lol, thats the funniest statement ever. Im afraid its not a fact. in FACT, there are very good arguments that support this. It is exactly your opinion and nothing more.

Boy, I sure hated taking philosophy and critical thinking, but now i see the reason.

[JohnRich 4]

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If someone was here slaughtering innocent children, then they are no longer innocents. I believe that would do it.

Well I'm glad to hear that.

Now, what about if children are being slaughtered elsewhere in the world - is that worth fighting against?

[Amazon 7]

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How about if the Russians invaded Florida and started slaughtering children - would that do it?

W O L V E R I N E S


I wonder how many people truely LIVE for that day.

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

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If someone was here slaughtering innocent children, then they are no longer innocents. I believe that would do it.

Well I'm glad to hear that.

Now, what about if children are being slaughtered elsewhere in the world - is that worth fighting against?

I am not going to say it is not worth fighting against. But, what I will say is that the US cannot have things the way it wants them in all places. We have one country. The fate of the world does not rest in our hands. There are plenty of countries where there are people dieing of starvation. What are we doing about that? Stuffing our faces with the rice they harvest, wearing the clothing they sew. Plenty of corporations in the US pay practically nothing to have foreigners produce for them. Things in this world are fucked up. Not everything can be remedied, and certainly not by war.

Angela.

[billvon 3,076]

>Now, what about if children are being slaughtered elsewhere in the
>world - is that worth fighting against?

Be careful if you truly believe that. We kill children; we've killed thousands of innocents in Iraq, women and children included. By your logic, terrorist groups attacking us are fighting a worthy cause - to stop the US slaugher of children. You have to qualify a statement like that with "but they were just in the way and we didn't mean to kill them" or "but the survivors are better off" or something along those lines.

That's the danger in black and white statements like "anyone who supports terrorism deserves to be attacked" or "anyone who kills children is evil." We do that on occasion. Defensible? That's a question that's been debated here many times. It certainly falls into a gray area of morality.

[Douva 0]

Apparently Bill Von didn't like something I had to say, so he deleted my post.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

deja vu.

I could swear I already replied to this, yet it says it was just posted. I am sure I replied to it. did we lose posts somewhere?

Angela.

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

ok, I just saw billvon's post.

I am deleting the reply.

Angela.

[Guest]

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Hmmm...........think I'll stay out of this one

Fortuna Favet Fortibus

Fortune Favors The Bold

Actually the Latin is "Audentes Fortuna Juvat".



mh

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[slug 1]

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As far as what a recruiter tells someone. Lets get real they have a quota to meet and without the draft they have a hard sell. Remember the Goldie Hawn movie?

You're citing a comedy movie as support for an argument that recruiters routinely lie to enlistees?

Wow! What a wonderful degree of credibility that has!

Sorry for the humor How about based on my four years in the USAF I never met a person who was told the truth by a recruiter.

It was a standard statement "when I get out of basic I'm going to go back to that recruiter and beat the crap out of them".

Where do you think the comedy writers get their material from? The curtains on the windows and sleeping in late was satire. But if you want to have your kid sign on the dotted line because his recruiter told him so & so thats fine with me
R.I.P.

[Amazon 7]

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How about based on my four years in the USAF I never met a person who was told the truth by a recruiter

YEAH wat he said..

I remember a WHOLE lot of very unhappy people at the time. hell even I did not get the job I was promised.. but I made do
My whole USAF experience was one long volunteer statement after another. Guess that is why I made rank in minimum time in grade everytime huh.