happythoughts 0 #326 February 17, 2004 QuoteQuoteKerry was 60 and seeing a 22 yo for 2 years. There's hope for me yet. Very few differences. He is rich, good-looking, and politically connected. Other than that, it is like we are twins or something. Are you 60 yet, Bill? I know you look it, but that might just be from hard living. It's not the age of the car, it's the mileage. I don't consider it my fault. Evil women have lured me into a life of drinking and dancing. Oh well, people talk about having the being 40 and having the body of a 20 yo. If I had one, where would I keep it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #327 February 17, 2004 QuoteQuoteOK Kallend tell us what nefarious plot GWB is trying to hatch by telling all these lies you claim. Tell us what possible motive he has. Because he knows people are willing to buy anything he says and he wants to be re-elected. Plenty of examples on here alone of who believes his lies and thinks he's actually doing good things based solely on his claims instead of actual results. How does INTENTIONAL doing all Kallend claims, help him get re-elected? Seems to me it would have the opposite effect. How does "lying" about the 2002 budget and "Lying" about projected employment figures help get elected in 2004? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #328 February 17, 2004 Quote2. You didn't address AT ALL why he predicted one thing and then pursued policies that would do the exact opposite (lower revenues and raise expenditures). Both of those were under his control. Bush proposed the tax cuts, and Bush created the increase in the bureaucracy. Disagree - The tax cuts were not wrong. There are theories that support tax cuts will produce more revenue by allowing more money in circulation to produce more taxable income rather than more tax on less income (i.e., generating a bigger pie to take the slice from). Are you a closet Keynesian (sorry about the spelling)? 2 - Agree - Increasing the bureaucracy is a mistake. A new cabinet post? Prescription drugs for free to a selected class of people? Steel tariffss? More money to the Arts? This admin and Congress should stop trying to buy Dem votes. They don't think that way. So I'm assuming you were a fan of Reagan then (starve the beast being his theory on government). I don't know if Bush could control these things, but he certainly proposed them and the congress approved. I think the tax cuts were a good idea, the increase in bureaucracy and many of the spending plan increases were not. However, I do believe that the spending increases would likely have been even bigger under Democratic control. (But a mix of Dem pres and Rep Congress might have been the best way to keep spending down. Which supports just tying up Government's hands and keep them out of our business as much as possible.) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
benny 0 #329 February 17, 2004 QuoteAre you a closet Keynesian (sorry about the spelling)? First off, why are you sorry about the spelling? You got it right. Secondly, Kallend may not be one but George and his economic advisers obviously are. However, they have a gross misinterpretation of the Keynesian theory. Everyone who knows Keynesian knows that tax policy is the least effective means by which to influence the economy. The truth of the matter is, the tax cuts weren't put in place to stimulate the economy, they were put in place to reward his rich buddies and make him more politically popular. The notion that the tax cuts would act as a stimulus was an afterthought to divert people's attention from the fact that said tax cuts had reversed the surpluses and sent the nation spiralling back into deficit spending. Never go to a DZ strip show. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #330 February 17, 2004 Yup, I benefitted greatly from the tax cut. Wait, I'm not worth millions...... aside - One argument is the local and state govs increased taxes in response and we didn't gain on the personal level (but my take home did go up a chunk). Now, if the local and state governments jacked up their taxes in response to the Federal cuts,,,, How will any your dem candidates guarantee to get those more local governments to roll back their tax increases in conjunction with 'rolling back' the fed tax reduction???? Here's a Simpson's quote "So, was it a pimple or a zit. It was a gummy bear." ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
benny 0 #331 February 17, 2004 QuoteYup, I benefitted greatly from the tax cut. Wait, I'm not worth millions...... aside - One argument is the local and state govs increased taxes in response and we didn't gain on the personal level (but my take home did go up a chunk). Now, if the local and state governments jacked up their taxes in response to the Federal cuts,,,, How will any your dem candidates guarantee to get those more local governments to roll back their tax increases in conjunction with 'rolling back' the fed tax reduction???? Here's a Simpson's quote "So, was it a pimple or a zit. It was a gummy bear." I'm not saying they will, I'm saying it doesn't matter. I'm saying that deficit spending is bad. I'm saying that tax policy is an ineffective way to influence the economy. I happen to live in a state where they have increased taxes (we only have sales) and still we are falling short at the state level. Much of this is because of federal mandates which are unfunded. Never go to a DZ strip show. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #332 February 17, 2004 QuoteI'm not saying they will, I'm saying it doesn't matter. I'm saying that deficit spending is bad. I'm saying that tax policy is an ineffective way to influence the economy . . .of this is because of federal mandates which are unfunded. It was an aside. So I digressed. But if tax policy is ineffective, then hopefully we don't 'roll back' anything and just reduce spending. ((Right now I don't think either party has it in them to do it - so the question is how fast do we slide down that crappy path)) Unfunded federal mandates - So the government is in our business/(and businesses) too much. I can agree with that also. ?? Unfunded mandates = social liberal/fiscal conservative ?? {{another aside - I'd still like to know how we are doing on the deficit as a percentage of GDP. Just too lazy to crunch the numbers. What's a good analogy of the deficit for a regular guy like me, my home mortgate? Credit card? what? you're the economist}} ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,090 #333 February 17, 2004 >How does "lying" about the 2002 budget and "Lying" about projected >employment figures help get elected in 2004? Telling a lie (or, to be charitable, a statement that's incorrect) that people want to hear helps get you re-elected, as long as you don't get caught. People no longer believe that we won't run a huge deficit, so that one backfired, but they still believe that tax cuts will eventually solve everything. Bush I had to raise taxes to pay for his massive debt; I suspect GWB will too. I am sure he will wait until after the election, when that "incorrect statement" can no longer do any harm. Perhaps you remember "read my lips - no new taxes?" Result was a 137 billion tax increase. Expect history to repeat itself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,123 #334 February 17, 2004 QuoteQuote2. You didn't address AT ALL why he predicted one thing and then pursued policies that would do the exact opposite (lower revenues and raise expenditures). Both of those were under his control. Bush proposed the tax cuts, and Bush created the increase in the bureaucracy. Disagree - The tax cuts were not wrong. There are theories that support tax cuts will produce more revenue by allowing more money in circulation to produce more taxable income rather than more tax on less income (i.e., generating a bigger pie to take the slice from). Are you a closet Keynesian (sorry about the spelling)? 2 - Agree - Increasing the bureaucracy is a mistake. A new cabinet post? Prescription drugs for free to a selected class of people? Steel tariffss? More money to the Arts? This admin and Congress should stop trying to buy Dem votes. They don't think that way. So I'm assuming you were a fan of Reagan then (starve the beast being his theory on government). I don't know if Bush could control these things, but he certainly proposed them and the congress approved. I think the tax cuts were a good idea, the increase in bureaucracy and many of the spending plan increases were not. However, I do believe that the spending increases would likely have been even bigger under Democratic control. (But a mix of Dem pres and Rep Congress might have been the best way to keep spending down. Which supports just tying up Government's hands and keep them out of our business as much as possible.) On the whole I thought Reagan did a pretty good job. I credit him with winning the cold war, which alone justifies his administration. I thought he held off the extreme right very effectively. (Unlike GWB, who has caved in to the extremists). Reagan made his own way there - he wasn't born with the silver spoon. I didn't like Iran-Contra, and I didn't like his deliberate starvation of AIDS research. Public health is a legitimate "general welfare" issue.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,123 #335 February 17, 2004 QuoteYou have to be kidding. His statement on the "small and short-term" deficit was in the SoU address 2002, and his budget with an ALL TIME RECORD deficit was submitted to Congress last month. Bush's Economic Report to the Nation, Feb. 2003 predicted 1.7M new jobs in 2003. Labor Dept. figures for 2003 showed 50k FEWER jobs. How much more evidence do you need than official (Republican controlled) government data? You ARE in denial. The guy is a clueless liar. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So F@cking what!! Maybe he was wrong. People do make mistakes sometimes. So he's a clueless liar, and "SO F@cking what!!" So he's a clueless liar who happens to be the most powerful man on Earth. That's "So F@cking what".... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #336 February 17, 2004 Edit: err, this response is to my post, not the response to GravityMaster's profanity I understand that response well. And GWB may well be caving into extremists on both sides if he keeps speaking highly about the current spending increases. But for me, I still don't see anyone better throwing the hat in the ring. And I don't vote against someone, only for someone so I have to make a choice on their actions. It's a tough one for you I can tell since both candidates will be 'silver spoon' babies. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
benny 0 #337 February 17, 2004 Have you watched any of the democratic debates Rehm, really researched what any of them have to say. Or are you just sure they couldn't be better than Georgie? Never go to a DZ strip show. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #338 February 17, 2004 Yup - I don't mind Edwards. He tried to stay on subject about what he wants to do during the debates (or least what concerned him most). He even tried to redirect the content in one debate to people's plans rather than slams. But the rest didn't pass up any single opportunity to slam the Pres or each other. And Lieberman seemed to stand up for what he believed in instead of just bending to popular trends. Right now, I'm just comparing Kerry and Bush. If Edwards makes the nomination, then I reset and compare proposed policies and positions on issues that are important to me. But I don't believe I align as well there either, but will give it a good listen as once it's a real contest (1 on 1) then the real candidates (positions) usually come out. It's funny, this comment coming from you because you tend to bring out what you don't like about the President rather than what you prefer about any particular candidate. Don't you think? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
benny 0 #339 February 17, 2004 QuoteDon't you think? I'm very critical of the president. Not because he's Republican, believe it or not I have voted for a Republican before (once). I listen to what he has to say, and I disagree with just about all of it. I've listened to the democratic candidates and I know that all of them sound better than Bush (to me). Edwards is my top pick, though I would take any of them over Bush. Never go to a DZ strip show. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #340 February 17, 2004 Sharpton? Kucinich? Clark? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,123 #341 February 17, 2004 Quote>How does "lying" about the 2002 budget and "Lying" about projected >employment figures help get elected in 2004? Telling a lie (or, to be charitable, a statement that's incorrect) that people want to hear helps get you re-elected, as long as you don't get caught. People no longer believe that we won't run a huge deficit, so that one backfired, but they still believe that tax cuts will eventually solve everything. Bush I had to raise taxes to pay for his massive debt; I suspect GWB will too. I am sure he will wait until after the election, when that "incorrect statement" can no longer do any harm. Perhaps you remember "read my lips - no new taxes?" Result was a 137 billion tax increase. Expect history to repeat itself. Federal tax revenues in $Billions since 2000: 2000 2,025.2 2001 1,991.2 2002 1,853.2 2003 1,782.3 2004 Income tax revenue is projected to fall again. So much for the Laffer curve theory. Have I mentioned UNEMPLOYMENT?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
benny 0 #342 February 17, 2004 QuoteSharpton? Kucinich? Clark? Last I checked, Clark's no longer running. But Al or Dennis, hell yeah I'd vote for them over Bush. Actually, Al is probably the most honest candidate there is. Never go to a DZ strip show. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #343 February 17, 2004 I actually liked Lieberman."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
benny 0 #344 February 17, 2004 QuoteI actually liked Lieberman. cool, I'm very very proud of you Never go to a DZ strip show. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiverRick 0 #345 February 17, 2004 QuoteQuoteDon't you think? I'm very critical of the president. Not because he's Republican, believe it or not I have voted for a Republican before (once). What republican did you vote for? never pull low......unless you are Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
benny 0 #346 February 17, 2004 QuoteQuoteQuoteDon't you think? I'm very critical of the president. Not because he's Republican, believe it or not I have voted for a Republican before (once). What republican did you vote for? Fred Thompson Never go to a DZ strip show. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiverRick 0 #347 February 17, 2004 QuoteI actually liked Lieberman. He would have given Bush a run for his money. He appealed to the people in the middle. They are the ones that will determine the outcome. never pull low......unless you are Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #348 February 17, 2004 QuoteHe would have given Bush a run for his money. He appealed to the people in the middle. They are the ones that will determine the outcome He is honest...And tells it like it is. However he had no "flash" and that killed him. People with flair are the ones that get elected....sometimes over the people with the right stuff. Its a shame, but most folks don't take the time to read anything about a canidate. They vote straight party ticket, or vote for "the guy" that did "the thing" that everyone else seems to like. If Lieberman had been the Dem choice...I would have had to think about it. But, I don't like Kerry, and I think he is a lock."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #349 February 18, 2004 I could've started a whole new thread, but I thought I'd just add to this one... Has anyone heard that Kerry, proponent of reducing the outsourcing of jobs here in the USA, had acampaign call center in Canada? Isn't that outsourcing? Also, does anyone know if the Heinz corporation outsourcing anything? Or are all of their corporate holdings here in the US? Again, just looking into facts and thinking about - researching - the likely democratic candidate for Pres.... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,123 #350 February 18, 2004 QuoteI could've started a whole new thread, but I thought I'd just add to this one... Has anyone heard that Kerry, proponent of reducing the outsourcing of jobs here in the USA, had acampaign call center in Canada? Isn't that outsourcing? Also, does anyone know if the Heinz corporation outsourcing anything? Or are all of their corporate holdings here in the US? Again, just looking into facts and thinking about - researching - the likely democratic candidate for Pres.... Ciels- Michele Why won't you answer my question about our current President, Michele?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
