freeflir29 0 #1 February 18, 2004 Yep....round two. Who's ready to go back? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vonSanta 0 #2 February 18, 2004 Is Aristide a very nice man? I bet Haiti will develop WMDs. They just need the oil to finance it Santa Von GrossenArsch I only come in one flavour ohwaitthatcanbemisunderst Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kansasskydiver 0 #3 February 18, 2004 i know which country DOES has wmd and we should fucking use them for once and get all this shit over with. Iraq looks like a nice new parking lot to me<--- See look, pink dolphins DO exist! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #4 February 18, 2004 I didn't like how we handled things in '94. Perhaps a naval blockade, and then send troops into Dominican Republic to seal off the border. When the smoke clears, sweep up the mess. So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #5 February 18, 2004 You got that right! I was there for 6 months in 95. We're not going to fix anything there. Seal the borders and let it implode! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #6 February 18, 2004 QuoteSeal the borders and let it implode! No doubt....think of the cheap beach front property after that! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #7 February 18, 2004 Well, it didn't say anything about Jimmy Carter being there to negotiate a peace like he was in 94. I guess that means we are open for an airborne operation. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #8 February 18, 2004 It would take quite a while for that country to heal itself. They've used up their natural resources. You can look at an aerial photograph and clearly see the border between Haiti and the Dominican Republic. The water is extremely poluted. It's actually pretty baren in comparison. Carnival Cruise Lines, however, has a small chunk that they own up near Cap Haitien in the North. It's gated off and they've fixed it up like a resort. Very nice. It's where we all used to make our trips up for a little bit of R&R. So, it might be possible to salvage some of it if you could just hit the reset button and start over. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #9 February 18, 2004 I've heard that, if you go on some Carribean cruises that travel to that area, they take you to that place in Haiti. They don't tell you that, however. They just tell you that your at the island of Hispanola. What a $&@$ hole! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,162 #10 February 18, 2004 QuoteYou got that right! I was there for 6 months in 95. We're not going to fix anything there. Seal the borders and let it implode! No oil in Haiti, I guess.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #11 February 18, 2004 QuoteQuoteYou got that right! I was there for 6 months in 95. We're not going to fix anything there. Seal the borders and let it implode! No oil in Haiti, I guess. Yeah, what was President Clinton's infinite wisdom in sending our boys in...So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #12 February 18, 2004 Not that I'm aware of. It would be great for them if there was. It might be their only salvation. I felt sorry for them, really. If I was Hatian, I'd make a boat and float to Florida too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #13 February 18, 2004 I wasted an entire year of my life in Haiti (two six-month trips). It's truly unbelievable what a difference an imaginary line (or not; there is a fence down a lot of the border) can make. The difference between the Dominican Republic (where I have also spent a LOT of time) and Haiti is night and day. Seriously. One side barren and treeless (they cut down trees, burn them and sell the coals to cook with) and the other side green and beautiful. One side lawless and nasty, the other side with an infrastructure and decent government. You know, the people who live up along the northern side of the border which separates the two countries on the island of Hispanola barter in markets in a sort of "caveman" language. The Dominicans refuse to speak or learn Haitian Creole (an incredibly bastardized language) and the Haitian vendors don't have sense enough to speak proper French (the proper national language) or learn Spanish. It's nuts; they sort of hold stuff out and grunt at each other and hold up fingers for how much they want to trade. I shit you not. Like my cousin Pajarito said (yes, he is my first cousin), there is no way in the world that any amount of intervention or money will ever fix that place. None. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rmsmith 1 #14 February 18, 2004 QuoteLike my cousin Pajarito said (yes, he is my first cousin), there is no way in the world that any amount of intervention or money will ever fix that place. None. I don't know your cousin, but I have to agree with him! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paige 0 #15 February 18, 2004 Why can't people act like civil fucking human beings? God damn that country is so fucked up! They piss me off Why are we going to be the only country to help? That pisses me off too, like we don't already do it all.Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate www.TunnelPinkMafia.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #16 February 18, 2004 The problem is, Paige, your definitions and understanding of "right and wrong" are not anything like those of some other people around the world. There is no way, none, that we, or anyone else, can impose our morals and standards on others who have acted in a contrary manner since the beginning of civilization in their land. When I flew into Port au Prince in the back of that MH-53 ready to throw down, I thought I was setting down in a Mad Max movie set. You see, the USA had already intervened twice in a very-major way in the past hundred years in efforts to get Haiti to catch up with the rest of the civilized world. We went in, set up utilities and infrastructure, got some semblance of order established, then eventually left them to finish the job. Unfortunately, when "big daddy" left, corruption set in. There are only two castes in Haiti: the filthy rich, French speaking people in Petionville (an area in the Port au Prince foothills) and the dirt poor. All of the wealthy people, all of them, hire guards to keep the squatters off their property and to protect against theft. Squatters build shanties literally right against the back security walls of those houses, right on the sides of huge ravines. They, with incredibly few exceptions, practice SantaRia voodoo as their religion. They all, with no exceptions I could find, think it is perfectly alright to steal from you so long as you have two of something. They have no remorse whatsoever after you catch them hacking up a neighbor with a machete. It's not civilization as you know it. No amount of religious missionaries has ever been able to change that. No amount of money we (USA) have spent there has resulted in any lasting stability in the country. Every single time we leave there, the locals raid and loot the facilities which we have left for them. They leave nothing; not a single wire in any conduit, not a single fixture in any wall. All that is not protected is looted and sold in the markets in downtown Port au Prince. I could ramble on for hours, so I will just stop. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,121 #17 February 18, 2004 >Yeah, what was President Clinton's infinite wisdom in sending our boys in... Uh, he sent in diplomats and threatened an invasion - he didn't actually invade. It worked; Cedras abdicated and Aristide returned to power, which is what we wanted. Once that happened he sent in troops to rebuild Haiti, much as we're doing now in Iraq. Do a Google search on Cedras and Aristide for more info. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #18 February 18, 2004 I think the best thing to do with Haiti is absolutely nothing, and in hindsight, that would have been best 4 years ago. The problem was that Arristide put up a front of democracy, and 4 years ago American fell for it. American went into Haiti thinking they were helping a struggling democracy, when in reality they were propping up a dictator. Had America seen clearly, they would have avoided Haiti then, and they - and everyone else, should now. Jean Bertrand Aristide should be allowed to fall, and the world should help clean up the mess afterwards. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #19 February 18, 2004 QuoteThe problem was that Arristide put up a front of democracy, and 4 years ago American fell for it. American went into Haiti thinking they were helping a struggling democracy, when in reality they were propping up a dictator. I predict a repeat of this after we hand power over in Iraq. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #20 February 18, 2004 QuoteWho's ready to go back? I'm waiting for France and Germany to step in to clean up the mess, since they seem so interested in being involved in such things, and so many Americans seem to think they are some kind of essential godsend. Don't worry, I won't hold my breath waiting for them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marz 0 #21 February 18, 2004 Quote The problem was that Arristide put up a front of democracy, and 4 years ago American fell for it. American went into Haiti thinking they were helping a struggling democracy, when in reality they were propping up a dictator. Had America seen clearly, they would have avoided Haiti then, and they - and everyone else, should now. Well, Aristide was not the first american mistake in Haiti. The US governement had a large hand in getting the Duvalier family into power, and they had to go in and take them out... (Sounds alot like Central America, doesn't it?) Aristide came in with american support and now the US is sorta wiping egg off its face... The problem with doing nothing and letting Aristide fall is that no one has any idea who would replace him. It could very well go from bad to worse. But then again history has shown that outside intervention hasn't really helped either! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #22 February 18, 2004 He's my 1st cousin but I'm better looking than SkymonkeyOne. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paige 0 #23 February 18, 2004 It has nothing to do with right and wrong. It has everything to do with people treating other people like animals and expendable beings. The humanatarian effort I speak of completely lacks in that country and it pisses me off.Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate www.TunnelPinkMafia.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #24 February 18, 2004 QuoteIt has everything to do with people treating other people like animals and expendable beings. They aren't treating them like animals.....they pretty much are..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #25 February 18, 2004 [Mr. Rodgers voice]Does anyone know what this is? This is what we call "anarchy." Can you say "anarchy?" I knew you could It's not that we're the only ones who want to fix it, it's just that we're the only ones dumb enough to think we can right now.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
