Military, Ex-Military, Spouses, Relatives....read this book!

[freeflir29 0]

Read this book!!!!


If you have EVER been in the military or care about someone who has please read this book. I have read several of the books that are mentioned in this one but this is the first one that puts MANY resources together. It really made me feel a LOT better about things. Apparently I'm not NEAR as nuts as I thought.


On a personal note: It will help you understand how and more importantly WHY you feel the way you do.

As a leader: It will teach you INVALUABLE things about yourself, your troops, and how to "play the game successfully."


A spouse or relative: I think this may let you come to at least a BASIC understanding of what your loved one has been through and what they feel.


I just wanted to put in a poem that starts the book:


Not of the princes and prelates with periwigged charioteers
Riding triumpantly laureled to lap the fat of the years
Rather the scorned -the rejected-the men hemmed in with spears;

The men in tattered battalion which fight till it dies,
Dazed with the dust of the battle, the din and the cries,
The men with broken heads and the blood running into their eyes.

Not to be medalled Commander, beloved of the throne
Riding cock-horse to parade when bugles are blown,
But the lads who carried the hill and cannot be known.


Others may sing of the wine and the wealth and the mirth,
The portly presence of potentates goodly in girth;-
Mine be the dirt and the dross, the dust and the scum of the earth!


Theirs be the music, the colour, the glory, the gold;
Mine be a handful of ashes, a mouthful of mold.
Of the maimed, of the halt and the blind in the rain and the cold--

Of these shall my songs be fashioned, my tale be told. Amen.


-John Masefield
"A Consecration"


Just wanted to get that out. This book makes sense of a lot of my life that I previously didn't really understand. I'll be sending this book to more than a couple of friends that I KNOW need to read it. OK....now that I have scared everyone by being so serious....I'll return you to your regularly scheduled post whoring.

[freeflir29 0]

Wow......18 views and NOT ONE response. Hmmm...did I scare everyone by being serious?

[Gawain 0]

I was reading the reviews on Amazon and was about to ask if this was more relevant to gaining an understanding of veterans that have been in combat. Or, did I miss the point?

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Phlip 0]

I was just reading the reviews... whatever its purpose is, it looks like a very good book.
I think I'll buy it.

Thanks for the tip!

[katiebear21 0]

I met LTC Grossman in 1997 at Ft. Lewis, WA and he is truly a powerful speaker/author. On Killing is THE best military book I've ever read. Extremely powerful.

Good review, Clay!

Katie

Katie
Get your PMS glass necklace here

[freeflir29 0]

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was about to ask if this was more relevant to gaining an understanding of veterans that have been in combat. Or, did I miss the point?

All over it!

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On Killing is THE best military book I've ever read. Extremely powerful.

Good you have read it...I think it will make you a better leader...as well as let you keep some of your sanity.

[juanesky 0]

Thanks for the tip.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[lawrocket 3]

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I met LTC Grossman in 1997 at Ft. Lewis, WA and he is truly a powerful speaker/author. On Killing is THE best military book I've ever read. Extremely powerful.

Good review, Clay!

Katie

Everything Katie said, except it was 1995. It truly explains the emotion and problems surrounding military men - and women - on thie return.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[gmanpilot 0]

It's a great read. It should be required reading for any one who may be called upon to take a life.

_________________________________________
-There's always free cheese in a mouse trap.

[freeflir29 0]

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It truly explains the emotion and problems surrounding military men - and women - on thie return.

I had really believed for years that I was a complete sociopath since "military service" didn't seem to phase me. It was nice to read the book and see that I am a bit more "normal" than I thought. Still towards the "2%" crowd but not totally off the deep end.

[lawrocket 3]

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It truly explains the emotion and problems surrounding military men - and women - on thie return.

I had really believed for years that I was a complete sociopath since "military service" didn't seem to phase me. It was nice to read the book and see that I am a bit more "normal" than I thought. Still towards the "2%" crowd but not totally off the deep end.

A natural sociopath, eh? I'm REMF tried and true. No tthat I ever minded doing OPFOR or anything back when I was an O/C, but I sure as hell wanted nothing to do with killing and such.

Thank God I've never had to. As Grossman himself admits, neither has he. I actually told my troops to read the book. A few did, and we would discuss it.

They are in Iraq now. I hope they've learned its lessons.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[freeflir29 0]

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I hope they've learned its lessons.

No doubt.......I'm mailing copies to two of my old bosses. Both had "bad" experiences that they didn't deal with all that well. Some people are fine with it.....MOST aren't. One had 66 confirmed kills in Desert Storm. He suffers from "Survivors Guilt" due to killing enemy soldiers. The other was in Somalia during the Delta/Ranger debacle. Went with the "Rescue Convoy" that got all shot up. He wouldn't talk about it unless he was rip roaring drunk. They are both really good guys and I hope that they will read this book and find some peace. They deserve it.

[Guest]

Clay,

Read it years ago. Dr. Grossman's book should be required reading for anybody who is intending to be a leader of soldiers, or to be a LEO, IMHO.

It certainly helps to put the "warrior class" into perspective, but a couple of other writers (and personal friends, I might add) who have a profound understanding of the culture of organized violence and a very articulated ability to put such behavior into lay terms are:

Kregg P.J. Jorgenson

and

Marc "Animal" Mac Young

If you would like to be introduced to either of these fine gentlemen, I shall be happy to oblige.

mh

ps - Kregg's a skydiver - he's the one who turned me on to making my 1st parachute jump - the dog...

btw - have you seen this?
--------------

Remember the day I borrowed your brand new car and I dented it?
I thought you'd kill me, but you didn't.

And remember the time I dragged you to the beach, and you said it would rain, and it did?
I thought you'd say, "I told you so," but you didn't.

Do you remember the time I flirted with all the guys to make you jealous, and you were?
I thought you'd leave me, but you didn't.

Do you remember the time I spilled strawberry pie all over your car rug?
I thought you'd hit me, but you didn't.

And remember the time I forgot to tell you the dance was formal and you showed up in jeans?
I thought you'd drop me, but you didn't.

Yes, there were lots of things you didn't do.
But you put up with me, and you loved me, and you protected me.
There were lots of things I wanted to make up to you when you returned from Viet Nam...

...but you didn't.

Author Unknown

.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[osuskydiver 0]

Seems like everyone loves this book, so I have decided to trust fellow dz.commers and I bought the book and will start it today.

By the time you read this you have already read it.

[kmcguffee 0]

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No tthat I ever minded doing OPFOR or anything back when I was an O/C

Where were you an O/C at and when? I was an O/C at JRTC from 1999 thru the middle of 2000. I did two rotations as Bluefor and a detailed rotation as an O/C augmentee before that. I also made a few to NTC in the early to mid 90's. We might have run into each other.

"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin

[LouDiamond 1]

I read the book several years ago and found it pretty interesting if not somewhat dry and drawn out in some parts. Grossman makes some good points and the training methodology explanation is well and good and the whole slice and stab aversion principle is some what viable but I don't completly buy it. I am curious to see how many domestic violence scenes where a knife was used ended in a stabbing as opposed to a cutting. I'm pretty sure there are just as many stabbings as cuttings done by what can be considered everyday ordinary people. I have seen recorded speeches by Grossman and I thought he was caught up in his own hype some what. I think if you take about a 1/4 of that book that had good to the point info in it , it would make an excellent tool to model more training around. I think I still have it in my book collection and may take a look at it again for the hell of it.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING