Scientists p1ssed.

[kallend 2,146]

www.ucsusa.org/news/press_release.cfm?newsID=381

Washington, D.C.—Today, more than 60 leading scientists—including Nobel laureates, leading medical experts, former federal agency directors and university chairs and presidents—issued a statement calling for regulatory and legislative action to restore scientific integrity to federal policymaking. According to the scientists, the Bush administration has, among other abuses, suppressed and distorted scientific analysis from federal agencies, and taken actions that have undermined the quality of scientific advisory panels.

and more...

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

I was wondering when someone was going to post that - I first saw that on Thursday.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"the Bush administration has, among other abuses, suppressed and distorted scientific analysis from federal agencies"

You don't really need a Nobel Laureate to tell you this though, do you?

--------------------

He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[Rainbo 0]

Luv ya Professor...

But I got to say that if you really consider this group to be an "unbiased" organization, you do your own intelligence a disfavor.

Being a devote third party member I really love watching the the ultra radical portions of each party spew slop at each other. Now if everyone could just get on board with a really moderate and realistic party like the Libertarians we would all do our country a favor.

Rainbo
p.s. And I really do luv ya dude.

Rainbo
TheSpeedTriple - Speed is everything
"Blessed are those who can give without remembering, and take without forgetting."

[Kennedy 0]

Um, kallend? I have secret for you.

He's a political creature. I have never seen a republican or democrat or lobbyist not guilty of that.*

[* - just to piss some people off though, I have to throw out that I have never once seen incorrect data in an NRA report.]

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Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[Tink1717 2]

If you haven't read an NRA report that wasn't skewed, slanted or wrong, you haven't read very many of them.

Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off.
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717

[Tink1717 2]

And exactly WHAT about this is surprising?

Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off.
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717

[tunaplanet 0]

Great, more presidential bashing. Whatever happened to lining up behind your leader and following him to hell and back without question nor remorse? Maybe I'm still too military.

Forty-two

[PhillyKev 0]

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Whatever happened to lining up behind your leader and following him to hell and back without question nor remorse?

Democracy and freedom happened to it. I have sworn no oath to follow anyone. He swore an oath to serve me.

[tunaplanet 0]

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Democracy and freedom happened to it.

Not really so much that as it is the old cliche, "If people aren't bitching they aren't breathing."

Monday Morning Quarterbacking IS afterall the easiest job in the world.

Forty-two

[mnischalke 0]

Quote

If you haven't read an NRA report that wasn't skewed, slanted or wrong, you haven't read very many of them.

Interesting belief.

Now try to back it up.

mike

Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills.

[RevJim 0]

News flash:
The more that "Get on board", the quicker our system changes from the "Republicrats" and the "Others" to the "Lipubricrates" and the "Others".

The bigger the voting membership, the more lobbying, finger pointing, and pocket filling. Sad, really.

It's your life, live it!
Karma
RB#684 "Corcho", ASK#60, Muff#3520, NCB#398, NHDZ#4, C-33989, DG#1

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

www.ucsusa.org/news/press_release.cfm?newsID=381

Washington, D.C.—Today, more than 60 leading scientists—including Nobel laureates, leading medical experts, former federal agency directors and university chairs and presidents—issued a statement calling for regulatory and legislative action to restore scientific integrity to federal policymaking. According to the scientists, the Bush administration has, among other abuses, suppressed and distorted scientific analysis from federal agencies, and taken actions that have undermined the quality of scientific advisory panels.

and more...

This would really piss off the environmentalists.

What other groups that use emotion instead of data will this hurt?

But I doubt that board REALLY means scientific integrity, likely only on just those decisions they disagree with.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kallend 2,146]

Quote

Luv ya Professor...

But I got to say that if you really consider this group to be an "unbiased" organization, you do your own intelligence a disfavor.

Being a devote third party member I really love watching the the ultra radical portions of each party spew slop at each other. Now if everyone could just get on board with a really moderate and realistic party like the Libertarians we would all do our country a favor.

Rainbo
p.s. And I really do luv ya dude.

"This group" contains a significant percentage of America's living Nobel prizewinners, and American Medal of Science (personally awarded by the President of the USA) winners.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

"This group" contains a significant percentage of America's living Nobel prizewinners, and American Medal of Science (personally awarded by the President of the USA) winners.

Good for them.

However, any award or indication of high IQ or even how well they dress is a not direct indicator pointing to lack of bias - one way or the other. One 'could' argue that the higher the IQ, the more prone to elitism one could be. You sure infer a lot for a man of science.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Kennedy 0]

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If you haven't read an NRA report that wasn't skewed, slanted or wrong, you haven't read very many of them.

Come on Tink, I'm calling you out on that one.

Give me some evidence. [and if you mean anything pro-gun is slanted, well duh they are gonna be slanted]

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[wmw999 2,584]

They are scientists, talking about the conduct of science. That doesn't make them sacred, but they should be listened to; they've been doing it for a long time.

They're not talking about the war, or whether there are any WMD. They're talking about something they're more qualified in than the vast majority of folks out there. If a lot of experienced people have a viewpoint that disagrees with yours, it might be worth investigating your viewpoint as well as simply dissing theirs.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Kennedy 0]

Just a quick question:

How many "leading scientists" are there?
How many Nobel Laureates and National Medal of Science Recipients in the hard sciences still alive?

I'm guessing that number will make "60" look pretty small.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[rehmwa 2]

Wendy - I'm not 'dissing' (hate that word) the scientists, this is a good forum to bring up and I'm all for it if studies can be done purely objectively. But the timing is skeptical (but maybe due to the press more so since this type of protest is issued on a periodic basis.....)

However, you don't need to be a Nobel laureate to see the score of decisions made based on emotion, mushy data, publicity, etc. And it doesn't necessarily tie to any party or education level. So Kallend can bring up the credentials, but it doesn't relate to the bias. I'd rather see the article quote a series of perceived faulty or incomplete decisions from the course of the last several decades. This is specifically pointing to a single party.

I still stand that even the most 'qualified' person on a subject can be biased. And the number or type of awards they receive does not correlate to their amount of bias, one way or the other. At least I haven't seen any raw data on that nor if there's even a good metric to evaluate it against.

The smartest people I know are also the most unreasonably biased people I know. I'll extrapolate this opinion to those I don't know until I meet them in person and decide on a case basis. I will be very skeptical, especially when they come out with a statement during an election year. However:

This argument comes out from this type of crowd every time a decision is made they disagree with (whether they are right or wrong). It's likely just being published more visibly this time around. In that case, I'll just stay skeptical of the press' timing. If not, I'll be skeptical of the scientist's objectivity regarding their areas.

Scientists - "Come up with a theory and try to prove it" - by nature extremely biased in approach even in 'non-political' areas.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[SkydiverRick 0]

"This group" contains a significant percentage of America's living Nobel prizewinners, and American Medal of Science (personally awarded by the President of the USA) winners.

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

Isn't Arafat a Nobel prize winner?

I doubt for any science category

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kallend 2,146]

Quote

Just a quick question:

How many "leading scientists" are there?
How many Nobel Laureates and National Medal of Science Recipients in the hard sciences still alive?

I'm guessing that number will make "60" look pretty small.

\

WRONG!

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Kennedy 0]

Quote

WRONG!

Wow, that sure showed me.

Come on man, I expect better from you. Can you at least hazzard a guess about the numbers, or point me in a direction?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[kallend 2,146]

Quote

Quote

WRONG!

Wow, that sure showed me.

Come on man, I expect better from you. Can you at least hazzard a guess about the numbers, or point me in a direction?

Only 47 in Chemistry and Physics in total, and many of them are now dead.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Kennedy 0]

Quote

Only 47 in Chemistry and Physics in total, and many of them are now dead.

Um, where did you get the number 47 from?

http://www.nobel.se/help/faq/nobel_laureates.html#5
I had some free time and did a little checking. There have been 171 physics, 143 chemistry, and 180 Physiology/Medicine laureates.

http://www.nsf.gov/nsb/awards/nms/medal.htm

Quote

Since its establishment, the National Medal of Science has been awarded to 386 distinguished scientists and engineers whose careers spanned decades of research and development.

That's 494 + 386, or 880 recipients of the two awards, assuming no crossovers.

So of the "over 60," how many were award recipients? If you want to include formal federal agency heads and university administrators, well that number is a great deal larger than 880. --OK, I checked the article and 17 of the signers were recipients. That's 2% of award winners. Assuming half of all recipients are dead, that's 4%. Assuming another half are foreign or just don't care, that still only amounts to 8% of possible signers.

While I'm sure all these people are highly accomplished and deserving of an ear, I dislike how the article makes it sound like the entire scientific community is up in arms over this issue.

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Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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