splitting the final stow

[Southern_Man 0]

Hi all,

I've done a search and couldn't really find a thread exactly on point.

I have a Wings container and split my line groups into left and right on the last stow. (Actually something I learned here). This seems pretty intuitively that it should help keep the D-bag aligned properly and result in less twists or off heading openings. This is the configuration recommended by the manufacturer.

So, the question is, does anybody use this configuration with other rigs? Why or why not? What would/have been the results with other rigs?

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[theonlyski 8]

Quote

Hi all,

I've done a search and couldn't really find a thread exactly on point.

I have a Wings container and split my line groups into left and right on the last stow. (Actually something I learned here). This seems pretty intuitively that it should help keep the D-bag aligned properly and result in less twists or off heading openings. This is the configuration recommended by the manufacturer.

So, the question is, does anybody use this configuration with other rigs? Why or why not? What would/have been the results with other rigs?

I don't use it when packing my Mirage, student rigs (mirage g3 and RTS) and tandem rigs (sigma and micro sigmas), never had an issue with line twists and only get off heading openings when I get end cell closures (sabre-2's are known for that)

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[wmw999 2,589]

I've done it with a Javelin (pictures in this thread where Bill Booth also opines on the matter).

This thread has a lot about split stows.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Southern_Man 0]

Thanks Wendy, that may have been the original thread where I read about split-stowing. I'm not sure. Anyway, I read about it here and am just wondering if anybody else sees any negatives to using this method with other containers.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[fcajump 164]

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Thanks Wendy, that may have been the original thread where I read about split-stowing. I'm not sure. Anyway, I read about it here and am just wondering if anybody else sees any negatives to using this method with other containers.

I was one of the contributors on that threat, and in reviewing it, I'd pretty much stand by my thoughts at the time... I've used it for going on 20 years with minimum (no) issues. Most of this has been on Vectors (I, II and III) and Jav Ody. Mind you I jump larger systems (my small main is a 210 .

Don't see why it would be a problem for other systems or sizes, but YAMMV.

JW

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[riggerrob 643]

I first started splitting stows when I was packing for a static-line DZ in Alberta, then continued on my personal rigs containing Stiletto 135 and Ariel 150.
That packing method worked great and I suffered very few line twists.

Frankly, split line stows look better than the half-mile of loose line stows left by many swoopers, because I am old enough to still remember the first time free-stowing fell out of fashion (circa 1980).

[Anvilbrother 0]

Can someone post a pic of this? I know what its supposed to look like, just cant seem to make it happen by crossing lines, or making mini stows, a pic would be great.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[theonlyski 8]

Quote

Can someone post a pic of this? I know what its supposed to look like, just cant seem to make it happen by crossing lines, or making mini stows, a pic would be great.

The link that Wendy posted has some pictures with some more info about it.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[riggerpaul 1]

Quote

Can someone post a pic of this? I know what its supposed to look like, just cant seem to make it happen by crossing lines, or making mini stows, a pic would be great.

Download the Midflap SB from www.skydivewings.com

Page 5 has the pictures you want.

[Anvilbrother 0]

Got it thanks, that's the way I had it, but did not think there was any chance in hell it would be ok to just leave that loop that evens the lines out just hanging in the middle there. I guess plenty of jumps by many people have proved if your careful, its ok. Thanks again

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[fcajump 164]

Quote

Got it thanks, that's the way I had it, but did not think there was any chance in hell it would be ok to just leave that loop that evens the lines out just hanging in the middle there. I guess plenty of jumps by many people have proved if your careful, its ok. Thanks again

For myself, I gently tuck that 1/2 loop under the rest of the lines. Keeps it out of the way, yet comes right out during deployment.

JW

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[wmw999 2,589]

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For myself, I gently tuck that 1/2 loop under the rest of the lines. Keeps it out of the way, yet comes right out during deployment

I started to do it that way, too, right after that thread.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[riggerpaul 1]

Are so many people really using the outside line stows on a Wings main bag?

From the SB -

Quote

This packing method only affects individuals using the outside line stows, not the
center line stows. Wings recommends the use of the center line stows on all
main containers.

If you are using the center line stows, as recommended for all, this technique is not recommended, and should not be needed.

When using the center line stows, proper slack and line routing should address any packing-related line twist issues.

Of course, body position during deployment will still remain.

[fcajump 164]

Quote

Are so many people really using the outside line stows on a Wings main bag?

From the SB -

Quote

This packing method only affects individuals using the outside line stows, not the
center line stows. Wings recommends the use of the center line stows on all
main containers.

If you are using the center line stows, as recommended for all, this technique is not recommended, and should not be needed.

When using the center line stows, proper slack and line routing should address any packing-related line twist issues.

Of course, body position during deployment will still remain.

For 18 years I did not have a Wings main bag, so not an option. For the last 2, I have had one canopy in a Wings D-bag, but converted to using the outer to be consistent with habits and the other D's I use.

For day-to-day jumping, I believe in consistency and tried/true methods rather than using a different methods for each canopy I jump. (I experiment with enough other shtuff...

JW

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[riggerpaul 1]

Quote

Quote

Are so many people really using the outside line stows on a Wings main bag?

From the SB -

Quote

This packing method only affects individuals using the outside line stows, not the
center line stows. Wings recommends the use of the center line stows on all
main containers.

If you are using the center line stows, as recommended for all, this technique is not recommended, and should not be needed.

When using the center line stows, proper slack and line routing should address any packing-related line twist issues.

Of course, body position during deployment will still remain.

For 18 years I did not have a Wings main bag, so not an option. For the last 2, I have had one canopy in a Wings D-bag, but converted to using the outer to be consistent with habits and the other D's I use.

For day-to-day jumping, I believe in consistency and tried/true methods rather than using a different methods for each canopy I jump. (I experiment with enough other shtuff...

JW

I wasn't directing my message to you at all. (I even made sure to "attach" it to my own post, so it would not appear to be directed wrongly.)

You have good reason to use the outer line stows. And Sunrise certainly provides the option.

That's not at all what I am talking about.

(To be clear, the rest is not at all directed at fcajump.)

I have seen too many one-rig Wings jumpers who don't even know that the center line stows are there.

So much for reading the manual that comes with your gear. (If you bought used, and didn't get a manual, download one!)

It the absence of good reasons to the contrary, the manufacturer recommends the use of the center line stows, not the outer line stows.

Know your gear. Know what the manufacturer says about packing and maintaining that gear.

Ignorance may be bliss, but it is not an excuse.

(Again, not talking to fcajumps!)

[fcajump 164]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Are so many people really using the outside line stows on a Wings main bag?

From the SB -

Quote

This packing method only affects individuals using the outside line stows, not the
center line stows. Wings recommends the use of the center line stows on all
main containers.

If you are using the center line stows, as recommended for all, this technique is not recommended, and should not be needed.

When using the center line stows, proper slack and line routing should address any packing-related line twist issues.

Of course, body position during deployment will still remain.

For 18 years I did not have a Wings main bag, so not an option. For the last 2, I have had one canopy in a Wings D-bag, but converted to using the outer to be consistent with habits and the other D's I use.

For day-to-day jumping, I believe in consistency and tried/true methods rather than using a different methods for each canopy I jump. (I experiment with enough other shtuff...

JW

I wasn't directing my message to you at all. (I even made sure to "attach" it to my own post, so it would not appear to be directed wrongly.)

You have good reason to use the outer line stows. And Sunrise certainly provides the option.

That's not at all what I am talking about.

(To be clear, the rest is not at all directed at fcajump.)

I have seen too many one-rig Wings jumpers who don't even know that the center line stows are there.

So much for reading the manual that comes with your gear. (If you bought used, and didn't get a manual, download one!)

It the absence of good reasons to the contrary, the manufacturer recommends the use of the center line stows, not the outer line stows.

Know your gear. Know what the manufacturer says about packing and maintaining that gear.

Ignorance may be bliss, but it is not an excuse.

(Again, not talking to fcajumps!)

Paul... NOT an issue... did not take it personally at all (we all good ). Just wanted to weigh in as one of the multitudes. (translation-I can't keep my yap shut )

For all - Paul is absolutely right:

First - READ your manual.

Second - when you come across a big/new word in the manual, ask you rigger how to pronounce it, use it in a sentence and then point out where that thing is on your rig and what to do with it.

Third - While this is the technique I use (along with Wendy and some others) and we are happy discussing it, this forum is not the place to learn your gear or first techniques. While very useful, start with your rigger/instructors. Ask them about the nutty thing you read about online and ask them to translate.

I don't really have any problems with how Wings recommends using the inside stows, just not my preference. (I like short/snug stows and minimum loose line in the container... but that's just me.)

No offense taken Paul, you asked a good question.

JW

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[riggerrob 643]

The primary function of short half-stows is that they can lift main risers out the container much earlier in the deployment process, reducing the risk of main risers snagging the corners of reserve containers, line twists, etc.
I vaguely remember the Canadian Army using 80 pound break cord to tie connector links to the corners of d-bags on static-line rigs. That break cord ensures that risers get lifted early in the deployment process and reduces the risk of arms, legs, necks, rucksacks, rifles or snowshoes fouling main risers.