quade 4 #226 February 25, 2004 Quote Do you think that Kerry is an inspirational leader? Not really. I wanted Clark. Like I said earlier I didn't want to be an "ABB". I wanted someone to stop the problems in Iraq and capture Osama bin Laden. I thought Clark was the best person for the job. However, I can not support GWB in his bid for re-election, so the only logical choice at this point is Kerry.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #227 February 25, 2004 Quote That has to be one of the most self-serving, pathetic excuses for ones own beliefs that I have ever seen. Really? I'm a white, middle-aged, hetro. Tell me how it's self-serving? BTW, the statement isn't exactly an original idea.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #228 February 25, 2004 QuoteThe majority supported slavery. The majority was wrong. The majority thought people would never fly. The majority was wrong. The majority thought women shouldn't vote. The majority was wrong. The majority thought blacks should be separated from whites in public (i.e. segregation.) Wrong again. The majority thought blacks shouldn't be allowed to marry whites. Again, wrong. Why are you right Bill? Why do you think my view is wrong? Gay marriage is NOT the same as gay rights, period. Getting married is not a right. You can be turned down for a marriage licence you know gay or straight. There is a large difference between Not allowing gays to marry and not allowing Women to vote. DOn't even go down that road. Sorry, but Jose is right. Someone said "The Majority opinion is just wrong" REALLY? in whose eyes? The Minorities eyes? That is Bullshit. You can't just say the majority is wrong without backing it up! I say the minority view is "JUST WRONG" Chris ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #229 February 25, 2004 QuoteYet here we are, 40 years later, and women don't marry chimpanzees. No, but here we are 40 years later and gays are trying to Marry. And if that happens it May open the door for other "Alternative Lifestyle" to marry as well such as polygamy. So what happens when one of my 3 wives wants a divorce??? Does she get 50% or 25%? Marriage (from a religious law) is defined as between a man and a woman. I am pretty sure that is what the founding father had in mind too!! And besides just to piss off the one that came before me. The Minority (those supporting gay marriage) Are Just wrong, it is as simple as that right!!! Chris ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,119 #230 February 25, 2004 >Sorry, but Jose is right. Someone said "The Majority opinion is just > wrong" REALLY? in whose eyes? The Minorities eyes? The law's eyes. If 90% of the country wants to kill Geraldo Rivera because he's an imbecile, that doesn't make it OK to do so. Laws protect him from the tyranny of the majority. >That is Bullshit. You can't just say the majority is wrong without >backing it up! The majority has been wrong many times in the past. See the above post. >I say the minority view is "JUST WRONG" So you would have supported slavery, segregation, and laws against interracial marriage way back when? They were all the majority view. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #231 February 25, 2004 You and Kennedy are funny - Republic = Representative Democracy ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #232 February 25, 2004 but a representative democracy or republic is not the same as a true democracy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #233 February 25, 2004 QuoteBill, I am not!!!! I am say any 3 + way marriage is out. Any Gay marriage is out. Allowing gay marriage is opening a pandoras box I always thought that these arguments were silly. Anyone can answer them and I've heard them answered publicly many times. For those who fear that allowing gay marriage means that next we have to allow polygamy: Our current government allows 2 consenting adults to marry and then gives them benefits because they are married. The gay marriage battle is about committed gay couples being accorded the same privileges and benefits that are already exist. If someone else wants to fight for the privilege of polygamy, let them. It's not the same fight. Nobody has the right to multi partner marriages right now, not even straight people. For those chicken-littles who think that gay marriage will lead to people being able to marry animals: Think it over. Who's going to marry an animal? You'd pretty much be limited to.. umm.. sea turtles and parrots and elephants because by the time most animals are of a legal age to marry (18 years) they are sort of smelly and unattractive.Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,119 #234 February 25, 2004 >No, but here we are 40 years later and gays are trying to Marry. Gays are marrying, both here and throughout the world. The universe hasn't imploded yet. Marriages have not all dissolved into chaos and women aren't marrying chimpanzees (or four guys at once.) >And if that happens it May open the door for other "Alternative > Lifestyle" to marry as well such as polygamy. They claimed that 40 years ago too. Didn't happen then, won't happen now. >I am pretty sure that is what the founding father had in mind too!! The founding fathers wanted a strict separation between church and state. They purposely didn't say anything about marriage because it was between the people getting married and their church. The founding fathers intended a much smaller, less intrusive government than we have today. They would have been shocked if they knew that today's government was trying to regulate religious institutions like marriage. That's why they left England, to get away from the government imposition of religious and moral standards on the people. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #235 February 25, 2004 I realized we were talking about the same thing and just laughed at myself, then went to get some lunch. The two aren't mutually exclusive. I wouldn't say they're equal, but I've mostly stopped caring about that. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #236 February 25, 2004 Broad Brush bill, That is my point. You are saying then that Gay marriage is OK because it it the Minority View and the Majority view has been wrong in the past???? I sure as shit wouldn't wantyou on my debate team!!! So don't screw around with samantics. I read you post and that is why I posted this. What I am saying is, You can't make a blacket statement such as "The Majority is JUST wrong" without saying why. I can very easily say the opposite. "The Minority is just wrong" Because you know what Bill The Minority has been wrong in the Past!!!! Chris ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #237 February 25, 2004 Quotebut a representative democracy or republic is not the same as a true democracy. That's not a "but" statement. (and it is definitely correct). It's a shame, because Geraldo is obnoxious and we could vote him out of the country - along with the Baldwin Brothers, rap singers, and those Quiznos sponge rats. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #238 February 25, 2004 Separation of church and state was designed not to protect the government from religion.... it was designed to protect religion from government!!!! ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #239 February 25, 2004 AND it was designed to protect THE PEOPLE from religions they choose to have nothing to do with. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #240 February 25, 2004 Oh yeah.... How? ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiverRick 0 #241 February 25, 2004 Quote>Then why do you advocate the mayor of San Francisco breaking the >law? Let the legal system work it out. Agreed there. I am glad there are now "test cases," but I'm sorry they happened in SF where it's illegal rather than in New Mexico where it isn't. >He's promoting your point of view so you support him. I think he's doing the right thing. If he ends up going to jail I'm not going to complain, because he's breaking the law. I am glad that friends of mine can now get married, but sorry that the mayor had to break the law to do it. Rosa Parks got arrested years ago because, as a black woman, she dared to sit in the front of the bus. I would have supported her too, even though she was breaking the law. Using the "ends justify the means" argument is great when you are for the cause. You won't like it when you oppose the cause. Let government call it civil union (or whatever) for everyone and let the churches have the word marriage and 90% of the problem is solved. I do see things getting messy though. Poligamy is just one example of possible future problems. never pull low......unless you are Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #242 February 25, 2004 Quote If 90% of the country wants to kill Geraldo Rivera because he's an imbecile, that doesn't make it OK to do so. Laws protect him from the tyranny of the majority. Who protects us from Radical Judges and or Mayors????? ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #243 February 25, 2004 Quote Who protects us from Radical Judges and or Mayors????? Homer voice "er, I don't know. Coast Guard?" ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #244 February 25, 2004 The same way the Puritans should have been protected from the Church of England. They wanted nothing to do with the Church of England, and had to leave the country because of the persecution. The US government can't support or ban a religion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #245 February 25, 2004 Yes you are partially right. The government cannot Ban a religion, but they can support one. It depends on the definition of support. In a financial sense they can not directly contribute to one rcognized religion, however, they can legally hold/have public prayer, put up a religious sybol for holidays ect.... That is commonly misunderstood. Since there is nothing legally that can be done that is why groups like the ACLU go out and terrorized and threaten townships and school juristictions. They don't like the laws we have and since they can't change them they use scare tactics to get it to stop. They also like to find radical judges to overturn rulings!!!! There is no such law as "The separation of Church and State" by the way. It is in the constitution that the congress make no laws respecting and establishment of religion or prohibiting the free expression of it... SOmething like that. http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=35420 Here is good read for you.... Get ready for libeal flames. Chris ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #246 February 25, 2004 Nice post, Sean. I really think that your beliefs are the pillar of Christianity. I have known many people who feel much the same. I respect and admire them. Not that they care in most cases. I have to say that this debate (in general, not this thread) seems to be much more interesting to the average person than many others. I've had a lot of complete strangers and "barely aquaintences" ask me what I think about it in the last week. I find that encouraging.Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FIREFLYR 0 #247 February 26, 2004 No matter what you think about gay marrage... A constitutional ammendment seems un constitutional. WTF"One flew East,and one flew West..............one flew over the cuckoo's nest" "There's absolutely no excuse for the way I'm about to act" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites