kallend 2,147 #26 February 26, 2004 QuoteQuoteIt was an honest question - I'm not trying to make a point It was an honest reply. "Saturday Night Special" legislation is handgun banning in thin disuise. They tried government oversight of quality, and the congress took measures to exempt the industry because they saw that some bureaucrats can't be trusted [firearms is an emotional issue to many, have you noticed?] Ever since this exemption and rebordering, anti-gun people have given you the "less regulated than a teddy bear" garbage. Firearms manufacturers work under SAAMI and their own decisions on design. They also have every design, every product made, and every shipment sent reviewed and approved by federal bureaucrats. They are quite heavily regulated. QuoteJust wondering what kind of standards you support. I support manufacturers using whatever standards they see fit, and buyer responsibility. There are scores of magazines out there reviewing basically every gun made, and reputations exist for a reason. QuoteIn case you haven't yet realized, I am a supporter of minimal government interference in my (and everyone else's) life - including gun ownership. I know you're not anti-gun, persay, but you do tend to argue one side more heavily than the other. [you'll also notice I haven't called you liberal or anti-gun] QuoteIf I ever get the urge to buy one, I'd like to be able to do that without BATFE involvement Well you haven't got a prayer of that. They are involved in every single aspect of firearms after their design. [and they have rules on their designs] [edit] If you buy it from a federally licensed dealer [all dealers, not private owners] your name goes through NICS [the National Instant Check System]. And just an FYI, these checks happen at gunshows, so I really don't understand what other people mean by the gunshow loophole. Is SAAMI compliance required, or voluntary. I understand that the reputable manufacturers would follow proper standards. You may be surprised to know that I once was an expert witness for the defense in a frivolous lawsuit against a gun manufacturer. My part concerned the behavior of nickel plating, not the gun design itself.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #27 February 26, 2004 QuoteIs SAAMI compliance required, or voluntary. I understand that the reputable manufacturers would follow proper standards. SAAMI sets up suggestions and guidelines. According to their website http://www.saami.org QuoteThe Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute is an association of the nation's leading manufacturers of sporting firearms, ammunition, and components. Since being founded in 1926, SAAMI has been actively involved in the publication of industry standards, coordination of technical data, and the promotion of safe and responsible firearms use. SAAMI currently publishes more than 700 voluntary standards related to firearm and ammunition quality and safety. QuoteYou may be surprised to know that I once was an expert witness for the defense in a frivolous lawsuit against a gun manufacturer. My part concerned the behavior of nickel plating, not the gun design itself. You've told me, and I've not doubted it. I know you're not sarah brady material.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douva 0 #28 February 26, 2004 http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/02/26/senate.guns.ap/index.html Dems seek to amend gun bill Thursday, February 26, 2004 Posted: 8:24 AM EST (1324 GMT) WASHINGTON (AP) -- Legislation that protects gun manufacturers and distributors against lawsuits over gun crimes passed its first Senate test Wednesday. But Democrats said the cost to Republicans will be public votes on extending the assault weapons ban and requiring comprehensive background checks at gun shows. The bill providing immunity from suits won the support of 75 senators in a test vote, and opponents acknowledged it has the backing to pass when they get to the final vote on Tuesday. Still, several Democrats and Republicans plan to force votes on less popular gun measures. "We all know this underlying bill has legs. That's why we want to get some amendments on there," said Sen. Barbara Boxer, D-California. Democrats on Tuesday will force votes on a plan that deals with gun shows, where unlicensed sellers do not have to check buyers' backgrounds. They also want to extend for 10 more years the ban on assault weapons, which expires in September. "If we can't amend this bill to add the assault weapons ban, we're not going to have another vehicle this year," said Sen. Charles Schumer, D-New York. But the bill's Republican supporters insist that any attempt to make changes would simply amount to an attempt to kill the bill. For example, the GOP-controlled House already has said it does not plan to approve an extension of the assault weapons ban. Sen. Larry Craig, R-Idaho, a sponsor of the bill, said the amendments were an "attempt to divert legislation and delay final consideration." The White House, which has indicated support for the assault weapons ban and the gun show measure, called on the Senate to pass the legislation without amendments. "Any amendment that would delay enactment of the bill beyond this year is unacceptable," according to a White House statement released late Tuesday. Democrats took that statement as an indication that President Bush was backing off his support for those two separate measures. "For the president to say he's for the assault weapons ban and act against it, that is a flip-flop if I've ever seen one," Schumer said. Republicans, along with some Senate Democrats, have pushed for the gun immunity legislation for some time. Gun advocates say firearm manufacturers make legal products and should not have to spend millions of dollars fighting off suits. Democrats, including Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle of South Dakota, agreed to get behind the legislation after gun supporters agreed that firearms makers and distributors would not be immune to suits involving defective products or illegal sales. But renewing the 1994 assault weapons prohibition also is a Democratic priority this year. Schumer and Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-California, the original sponsor in the Senate, say they are close to getting the votes they need to get it added to the gun show bill. They picked up support Tuesday from GOP Sens. John Warner of Virginia, Mike DeWine of Ohio and Lincoln Chafee of Rhode Island. Copyright 2004 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #29 February 26, 2004 Boy, they almost got that one right. QuoteDemocrats on Tuesday will force votes on a plan that deals with gun shows, where unlicensed sellers do not have to check buyers' backgrounds They conveniently leave out that all dealers are licensed, and the "unlicensed sellers" are private citizens selling one or two guns. QuoteStill, several Democrats and Republicans plan to force votes on less popular gun measures. Less popular? How about amendments going 100% in the other direction from the bill's intent. QuoteDemocrats, including Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle of South Dakota, agreed to get behind the legislation after gun supporters agreed that firearms makers and distributors would not be immune to suits involving defective products or illegal sales. Um, yeah, right. The original bill never granted that exemption, so I don't know who agreed to what. This is about being sued for somebody else's criminal action. QuoteCopyright 2004 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. Maybe next time you want to leave that part off, douva. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #30 February 26, 2004 QuoteBut renewing the 1994 assault weapons prohibition also is a Democratic priority this year. Sheesh. Didn't We, the People, pretty much clean house the last time they tried this? - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #31 February 26, 2004 Quote QuoteBut renewing the 1994 assault weapons prohibition also is a Democratic priority this year. Sheesh. Didn't We, the People, pretty much clean house the last time they tried this? - Jim It's also on Bush's to do list. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #32 February 26, 2004 I've heard. I'd like to think though that that's all talk, and that he expects Congress to make sure that it doesn't happen. God knows though that I could be wrong. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #33 February 27, 2004 I dunno if you're watching the debates, but it's really disgusting to see these guys totally misrepresent this bill. Lautenburg told a blatant lie about a gun dealer a little while ago. Politicians suck ass. Well, I do like the distinguished Senator from Idaho. mike Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #34 February 27, 2004 What channel was it on, Cspan? I get some weird stuff with charter, but I don't get that. [I might get Cspan 2 though]witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #35 February 27, 2004 Lautenburg, lautenburg, oh! you mean the sonuva bich that shouldn't even be there, but since they've been stacking the NJ supreme court for so long, they decided the state law doesn't mean what it says. To his benefit of course, not a conservative's.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #36 February 27, 2004 yeah, wasn't there a Clinton quote in all the big liberal papers blaming that one law for emptying out hlaf the democrats up for election, including a sitting house majority leader?witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #37 February 27, 2004 Quote "1994 Ban extension" It's also on Bush's to do list. You notice he backed off support for the one chance they have to get it done this year? [S.1805] Yeah, he was paying it lip service, but now he has to calm it down since there is a chance they will tag it as an amendment. Politicians. Can't live with em...witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rmsmith 1 #38 February 27, 2004 QuoteYou McCain, the Republican, who hasn't voted republican or conservative in how long? "The people always have some champion whom they set over them and nurse into greatness...This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when he first appears he is a protector." Plato (c 427-347 B.C.), Greek philosopher. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
