$10,000 reward for information proving GWB's story.

[Guest]

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So, when Clark says GWB got side-tracked in the hunt for OBL by marching into Iraq, is that credible?

I think so.

Me too.

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"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[Luv2Fall 0]

Obviously a given.........in my book anyway.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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BAD call. The RDAF isn't the USAF in the late 60's early 70's. I can say unequivocally that GWB got no 'help' graduating from UPT. He was no Prince of Orange. At Randolph (or Kelly or where ever else he trained), GWB was just another Swingin' Dick who had to earn his wings just like the rest of his class. If anything, he had to be better, because his instructors would have demanded more from him. Try coping with that kind of pressure while trying to keep up with the academic and flying load. I can think of few things tougher to accomplish. Many good men (and now women, 'course) don't make the cut. The only thing harder is naval aviation - that's a real ball-buster. His DAD is the one who did that (and libs have trashed his service record as well - they have no shame).

You know this for fact, or you are assuming such?

[FrogNog 1]

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I'm not a Democrat and I won't be voting for Bush.

Ditto.

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[rehmwa 2]

Scrappleface.com is offering $10 to anyone who can prove that Doonesbury is funny.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Jimbo 0]

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I'm not a Democrat

So that's why you left California! Tell us the truth, Lisa. You were asked to leave, weren't you?

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[Ron 10]

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By the way, no, it's not a joke. It's a serious offer

Refills of WHAT?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Guest]

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BAD call. The RDAF isn't the USAF in the late 60's early 70's. I can say unequivocally that GWB got no 'help' graduating from UPT. He was no Prince of Orange. At Randolph (or Kelly or where ever else he trained), GWB was just another Swingin' Dick who had to earn his wings just like the rest of his class. If anything, he had to be better, because his instructors would have demanded more from him. Try coping with that kind of pressure while trying to keep up with the academic and flying load. I can think of few things tougher to accomplish. Many good men (and now women, 'course) don't make the cut. The only thing harder is naval aviation - that's a real ball-buster. His DAD is the one who did that (and libs have trashed his service record as well - they have no shame).

You know this for fact, or you are assuming such?

That's a reliable fact. Nobody gets slack in UPT - you either make the grade, or you don't. I have personally known washouts, and those who succeeded.

That isn't to say that an aviator couldn't get help with his academics. Heck, even Chuck Yeager got tutored in higher math so that he could graduate from Test Pilot School at Edwards (please see "Yeager"). So if he did, there's no shame in that.

However, there's no rank in the cockpit. The IP's word is law, and if GWB was a marginal pilot in either the basic (T-37) program or the advanced (T-38) program, his IP would have graded him UNSAT, and that's that. It wouldn't matter who his daddy was.

The short version is he had to earn the wings. He may have been an Ivy League grad, but he was competing with men who were graduates of the USMA and the USAFA - his military peers.

Another factoid - his dad wasn't in political office at the time - GWB was just another son of a Texas oilman (Bush elder was a Representative for the 7th District in Texas 1966-1970 [that's hardly royalty - I dunno - maybe it's different in Holland?), and lost his Senate bid to Lloyd Bentsen).

mh

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"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[quade 4]

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Another factoid - his dad wasn't in political office at the time - GWB was just another son of a Texas oilman (Bush elder was a Representative for the 7th District in Texas 1966-1970 [that's hardly royalty - I dunno - maybe it's different in Holland?), and lost his Senate bid to Lloyd Bentsen).

What if you bring Prescott Bush into the equation? I think that pretty well makes this a family with a LONG history of political power and privilege. If you don't think that the Bushes pulled some strings to get GWB into the Texas Air National Guard rather than being in the regular services, you're fooling yourself.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[PhillyKev 0]

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What if you bring Prescott Bush into the equation? I think that pretty well makes this a family with a LONG history of political power and privilege. If you don't think that the Bushes pulled some stings to get GWB into the Texas Air National Guard rather than being in the regular services, you're fooling yourself.

Speaking of long family lines...

Senator John Forbes Kerry and President George Walker Bush share many very famous cousins, and their relationships are shown in the amazing computer generated reports that can only be produced by the world's most interconnected digital collection of ancestral history.

Some of their instantly recognizable famous and celebrity cousins, such as Walt Disney, Michael Douglas, Clint Eastwood, the Wright Brothers, Meriwether Lewis, Clara Barton, Georgia O'Keeffe, and Princess Diana, along with calculations of their exact family ties, can now be seen for free at http://www.familyforest.com/Kerry_Bush_Cousins.html

[quade 4]

Uh, "interesting" but I can't say I'm totally convinced of all the connections and credibility.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[TomSpoon 4]

You guys are missing the point. Everyone did what they had to do during the VietNam era. I don't begrudge anyone the choices they made. It's a CLASS issue. George W jumped to the head of the line to secure a coveted Air Gaurd slot at the expense of many without connections. Many that were forced into the meat grinder that VietNam was. CCR said it best " I ain't no Senators son"

[mcrocker 0]

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If you read the whole story you would see that they aren't giving the individual the money, but putting the 10K in the person's name for their favorite charity.

Oh, well if that is the case I would like to announce the formation of 'Lets buy Matt a new rig charity' Thats right! You too can help support this worthy cause. Simply send your non-tax deductible checks to me and I'll make sure that I.. Er, Matt (aka me) will get a new rig...

I need a second one anyway :p

[Guest]

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Another factoid - his dad wasn't in political office at the time - GWB was just another son of a Texas oilman (Bush elder was a Representative for the 7th District in Texas 1966-1970 [that's hardly royalty - I dunno - maybe it's different in Holland?), and lost his Senate bid to Lloyd Bentsen).

What if you bring Prescott Bush into the equation? I think that pretty well makes this a family with a LONG history of political power and privilege. If you don't think that the Bushes pulled some strings to get GWB into the Texas Air National Guard rather than being in the regular services, you're fooling yourself.

That may be so, but he still had to earn his chops in the cockpit - he didn't get a pass there. That's the only thing I'm trying to say.

Scenario - you're a veteran active-duty IP. You might even have combat experience either from Vietnam or Korea. You've got the son of a Texas oilman in the right seat (in the T-37, of course ), who just happens to be the grandson of a (retired) Senator from another state. You've also seen the offspring of big-shots come and go. Some make it, some don't.

You're responsible for training those who can make the grade, and cutting those who don't. The men you're training (in 1968) stand a pretty good chance of going on to Vietnam (even the Guardsmen). Are you intimidated by his Congressman daddy?

Same with being a Yale grad. He was among his well-to-do peers, but he still had to graduate.

mh

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"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[quade 4]

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That may be so, but he still had to earn his chops in the cockpit - he didn't get a pass there. That's the only thing I'm trying to say.

Well, whooper-dee-doo!

He could, at one time, fly a jet.

I dunno, but in -my- book that doesn't make him any sort of hero until he actually uses that skill.

I'll admit that he may have had a non-zero chance of seeing combat, but it was pretty much as damn near zero as it gets.

No one should pretend otherwise.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Guest]

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That may be so, but he still had to earn his chops in the cockpit - he didn't get a pass there. That's the only thing I'm trying to say.

Well, whooper-dee-doo!

He could, at one time, fly a jet.

I dunno, but in -my- book that doesn't make him any sort of hero until he actually uses that skill.

I'll admit that he may have had a non-zero chance of seeing combat, but it was pretty much as damn near zero as it gets.

No one should pretend otherwise.

I never said GWB was a hero, and I'm disappointed that you would be so dismissive of such an achievement. I personally am very impressed by ANYONE who can graduate UPT, because although it's a lot easier than naval aviation, Air Force pilot wings aren't given away, and it was a lot harder to get them in 1968 than it is today.

mh

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"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[Guest]

Bump to addendum.

I always strive to give credit it where credit is due. I did so for Kerry, and for GWB.

I think Jimmy Carter was (and still is) a braying jackass, but he was hand-picked by ADM Hyman Rickover to participate in the development of the Nuclear Navy. Rickover was a legendary hard-ass, and a very good judge of intellect. That Carter was selected for such difficult and prestigious duty is a significant achievement. Too bad he didn't stay there instead of going into politics. The Navy wouldn't have lost a fine officer, and we as a country wouldn't have suffered such painful humiliation in his failure of leadership.

mh

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"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[gary350 0]

More interesting news from the Doonesbury gang - For the first time, they are actually endorsing a presidential candidate!

From today's strip:

"This year the stakes are just too high for us to sit on the sidelines"

"So what did we look for in a candidate? Someone who won't lie or bully or recklessly lead his country into unending war?"

"Someone who's humble? Compassionate? Responsible? Fair? Curious? Unsanctimonious? Given to thoughtful, nuanced, moderate positions?"

"NOPE! BAD FOR BUSINESS!" "FOUR MORE YEARS!"

(Emperor Bush) "Yeah! Bring it on!"

Kinda reminds me of how all the comedians were pulling for Dan Quayle. . . morons are good for business.

[SkydiverRick 0]

Kinda reminds me of how all the comedians were pulling for Dan Qualye. . . morons are good for business.