atsaubrey 0 #1 March 1, 2004 So..i'm looking for someone to flat pack my XX canopy at Elsinore today. I find one of the packers there who knows how. He asks if they usually roll the nose and I say yeah just rool it over twice makes some good snivles. I watch him pack it and he does things abit differnt than the others ive seen, but it appears to accomplish the same thing. Now when he gets to the nose rolling part, he grabs half the cells and rolls them and jams them into an open cell and then does the opposite side the same way. I say, thats not what they usually do and he says dont worry you'll love it. Well, i did love it until one side opened first then spun a couple line twists. It was no biggie and more than likely it was body position, but thought i'd say i had my first line twist today. Anyway I let him pack it again and we will see the next time I jump. I am not bitching about his pack job! Just that when i saw it packed differently and then line twists i thought "Yeah I do love this shit man" thanks! "GOT LEAD?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #2 March 1, 2004 Um, if you want, you can come over to Perris next weekend and I'll teach you how to pack. I don't make this offer too often or to too many people, but you seem to have, um, some issues that need to be addressed. You might not want to jump that pack job and you really need to learn to pack for yourself anyway. Personally, I would NOT jump a rig with the nose stuffed into center cells. It's not really that great of an idea and it could have some really nasty affects on the canopy. Far worse than what you've experienced so far.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smooth 0 #3 March 1, 2004 Why do you roll the nose? For slower openings? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
atsaubrey 0 #4 March 1, 2004 Not sure on your comment. I wouldnt want to jump a pack job you teach me or dont want to jump a flat pack? As far as Perris, they still wont let me jump there. I refuse to jump a XX canopy pro packed, I have had nothing but slammers and since they have been flat/roll/stack packed I have only had one hard opening and that one wasnt even close to one decent opening on one propacked."GOT LEAD?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
atsaubrey 0 #5 March 1, 2004 yes to slow the openings down. 7 cells, 370ft2...one of those big ass cells catches air and BLAMMO."GOT LEAD?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #6 March 1, 2004 Flat pack, pro-pack... they are all the same. A propack is just a flatpack standing up. Stuffing in the center cell is a nice way to do major damage to the canopy. I jump 384-500's with out rolling the nose and I never have hard openings. Having large nose openings and rolling them does not slow down an opening, as soon as the canopy is out of the bag all that rolling of the nose and the tails is gone and has it slowed you down at all yet in that .05 of a second? The slider is the reefing device and placement of the slider controls the majority of the opening reefing. If you are always getting hard openings talk about putting a pocket slider on the main.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
koz2000 1 #7 March 1, 2004 You need to get military freefall guy to help you. (someone who has a lot of experience with mc-4 or XX) There's all sorts of ways to help slow thoes openings down. D______________________________________________ - Does this small canopy make my balls look big? - J. Hayes - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #8 March 1, 2004 Ok, let me be a little more clear. Jumping a canopy with the nose stuffed into the center cell can cause it to rip in two. I wouldn't do it and I don't recommend it to you either. You can come over to Perris and I'll teach you to pack. You don't have to jump there, just learn something. Flat packing is fine, but I'd teach you to PRO pack and you'd have openings that were as good as they could get on THAT canopy.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #9 March 1, 2004 QuoteAs far as Perris, they still wont let me jump there. Why? - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
atsaubrey 0 #10 March 1, 2004 #1 I have had different posts about packing the militay canopy and...well everyone has his opinion on propacking it. My experience hasnt been favorable with the propack. #2 I cant jump at Perris because my rig is obviously Tandem spec. but I dont have paperwork to back it up. So I cant jump there until I have my license."GOT LEAD?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #11 March 1, 2004 Tandem spec? You've lost me there...Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
atsaubrey 0 #12 March 1, 2004 I weigh 300+ lbs. So I am beyond the TSO-D. I bought a rig that was made by RWS and it was made with the tandem specs and cut down slightly to accomodate slightly smaller canopies (340 and 335). In reality it is a tandem but looks like a huge sport rig. I dont have any paperwork stating it is a tandem conversion so I cant jump in Perris."GOT LEAD?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #13 March 1, 2004 TSO 23D will let the manufactor certify the contiainer or reserve for any weight/ any speed that they want to choose. Sunpath choose 300 pounds and so did Sunrise on their sport rigs. TSO 23c and 23b have 255 pound limits on them and airspeed of 120 knots. Jumpshack and RWS use 23b on all their sport rigs. That brings up the question of what is the reserve rated for?Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lee03 0 #14 March 1, 2004 Surprised no one has caught this yet, "FIRST line twist today"... BEER!!!!! -------- To put your life in danger from time to time ... breeds a saneness in dealing with day-to-day trivialities. --Nevil Shute, Slide Rule Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
atsaubrey 0 #15 March 1, 2004 It is a Strong reserve used in the 80's/90's as a tandem reserve or main. I do have documentation from Strong stating it is safe for my weight range."GOT LEAD?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
atsaubrey 0 #16 March 1, 2004 Ya know, this post was supposed to be kinda funny and to let me buy beer and ended up being a technical discussion."GOT LEAD?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #17 March 1, 2004 What would you rather get: a free beer, a pat on the back or some education? quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #18 March 1, 2004 Free education at that Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #19 March 1, 2004 Quote Free education at that Well, that's just the lefty liberal in me isn't it? No vouchers here!quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Islandcool 0 #20 March 1, 2004 Take the free education. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #21 March 1, 2004 QuoteWhat would you rather get: a free beer, a pat on the back or some education? Uh, Quade. He was offering to buy the beer, being that it was his first line twist and all. Do you need JohnRich to rephrase his post into words that you understand? - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFKING 4 #22 March 1, 2004 Quote Jumping a canopy with the nose stuffed into the center cell can cause it to rip in two. Quade, Phree....care to elaborate ? I've always rolled the 8 outside cells (4 on each side) then pushed them into the center cell.....I've heard this referred to as "stuffing". I've had nothing but soft openings with this method, unless I was purposely packing a slammer for low hop-n-pops. Or are you talking about tandem canopies exclusively ? Don"When in doubt I whip it out, I got me a rock-and-roll band. It's a free-for-all." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #23 March 1, 2004 Ok, ya got me -- now I owe you one (damn it!). Anyway, doesn't look like he's coming over the hill to Perris so I better find him somebody over there at Elsinore to teach him to pack. Any volunteers?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #24 March 1, 2004 There is a very questionable technique of trying to slow a canopy opening by not just pushing the rolled nose cells into the pack job, but actually stuffing them INTO one or two of the cell openings on the leading edge of the canopy. Just think about the forces involved and how stress was designed to be distributed on canopy opening versus how this method would alter that. It -can- tear a canopy apart from the nose to the tail. So, instead of a 7 cell canopy, you'll maybe be flying two 3 cell canopies in single person CRW. Not really all that good of an idea.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFKING 4 #25 March 1, 2004 Quotebut actually INTO one or two of the cell openings on the leading edge of the canopy. Gotcha....no worries there......I can see how THAT could tear up your ride. Thanks for the clarification. Don"When in doubt I whip it out, I got me a rock-and-roll band. It's a free-for-all." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
