Slider options for brisk openings

[Anvilbrother 0]

Rig is a mt1-xx by paraflite, 370 sqft. F111 . All packing options have been tried and most successful with flat packing and rolling the nose on each side and placing the cells in the center cell nose. The openings are brisk and sometimes painful, I know it's not a sport rig and will never be perfect but here is my deal. Last weekend I had a hard opening and had 3 line twists below the slider.(paid packer) when the slider came down it got burned in the twisted mess and put a bunch of line burns in it.

I now need to replace it and have the option of changing the slidder to mitigate these issues. What I though of so far was to 1. Same slider size but use zero p instead of f111, seems it would descend slower and allow more deceleration before bottom skin inflation or pressurization. 2. Same idea as above but go an inch or 2 larger on the slider. This was successful on the sabre but I hear can go the other way if you go too big the line groups are spread out wider due to the wider slider and allow faster bottom skin inflation. 3. Pocket slider. 4." dome slider" kinda like a regular slider just with more material in the center to act like a small pilot chute if you will.

One rigger at the DZ said a larger slider will not help, the other said it was ok to go an inch or two larger, so thats where im at. What do you think. Im most interested in a pocket or dome slider made of zero p.

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[Anvilbrother 0]

Here is the current stock sliders dimensions as some technical info if this could be helpful. 22.5"x24.5".

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[monkycndo 0]

If you go larger, only go larger front to back. If you go larger side to side, it will allow the canopy to open wider and the slider can't control the extra force.

I had a pocket installed on a Sabre 135 that opened very briskly. It also needed a reline. So between the new pocket and the new HMA lines, the thing actually opens slower than I like. I am experimenting with how little to maybe even not rolling/stuffing the nose.

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[RMURRAY 1]

talk to skyworks rigging about a dome slider?

[sdctlc 0]

  Quote

I had a pocket installed on a Sabre 135 that opened very briskly. It also needed a reline. So between the new pocket and the new HMA lines, the thing actually opens slower than I like. I am experimenting with how little to maybe even not rolling/stuffing the nose.

Pete is putting HMA lines on my 135 now. Looking forward to getting it back and trying it out. No pocket on the slider though... but I was generally using that canopy for just wingsuiting... Why not change the slider and just use the HMA lines to see if that works better.

Pocket on a old Sabre 170 I had back in the early/mid 90's did a great job of slowing the openings down to a nice pace compared to with out it.. Easy and low cost fix option.

Scott

"He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

[captain1976 0]

Call Bob NPTC (National Parachute Testing Center). He is an expert on that canopy and can probably tell you what you need to know. Their number is 352-489-4898 in Florida.

You live more in the few minutes of skydiving than many people live in their lifetime

[D22369 0]

my fx opened hard to very hard on most jumps no matter how it was packed, my rigger sewed up a new larger slider (I dont recall the increased dimensions but it was more of an increase front to back) and the openings are pain free now


Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[Anvilbrother 0]

My last jump I waved at 3.5 flared to slow my speed then pitched at around 3.1 and my Neptune showed openin at 2850 my altimeter showed 2750ish once I made sure I had not blown my canopy up and I cleared my airspace. I ended up with a baseball sized bruise. I have started to do mostly subterminal hop n pop jumps and work on accuracy because terminal jumps are painful and no fun.

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[monkycndo 0]

Scott, the jumps have been WS as well. Haven't tried it at standard belly terminal. Packed it once where I just let everything hang out like packing a Spectre and the opening was better.

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[mjosparky 4]

You might try covering the opening of the center 3 cells from the top skin down about 5/6 inches. (see attachment) I did this to a Sharpchuter and it made all the difference in the world.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Anvilbrother 0]

What is your thoughts on a pocket or dome slider, I need a new one anyways right now. Also do you think zero p would be ok fir whatever kind if slider I get? Thx

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[mjosparky 4]

I would stick with the slider like the one you have and try the canopy mod. When it packed it is critical that the slider is kept tight against the stops. If it is allowed to move down the lines just an inch it will knock your dick in the dirt.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Anvilbrother 0]

Will the mod negatively affect canopy pressurization in deep brakes for accuracy jumping?

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[davelepka 4]

  Quote

I would stick with the slider like the one you have and try the canopy mod.

Really? You wouldn't even try the simple, bolt-on solution of a slider with an extra inch or two on the chord?

It would take ten minutes to install, and ten minutes to un-install if it's not the trick. Comapred to sewing on the canopy which could either go very well or very bad, depending on who's running the sewing machine.

The slider dimensions he listed don't seem all that huge for a 370sq ft canopy. Keeping in mind that the canopy was designed when a long snivel was not the SOP, and was most likely not intended to be used by a guy named 'Anvil'. That said, I think a nod toward the 'new style', and an oversized slider would be the easy first step, followed maybe by a pocket/dome, and finally actual canopy mods.

[mrbiceps 0]

i had a sabre that opened hard and got a bigger slider made up for it, It was alot bigger , i think around 45% bigger than the standard one , i have never looked back. Best $150 i have ever spent, Why dont u try and borrow a bigger slider to try it out. I do know a guy who put a tandem slider on his sabre and all the people told him it would cause a mal for sure which was crap, he loved it and left it on his sabre.

[mrbiceps 0]

Those dimensions are way small for a canopy of that size if u ask me. I would deffinitely find a rigger that has a tandem slider which are designed for a similar size canopy and test it out, i put money on you loving the openings it gives you.

[Anvilbrother 0]

After measuring the slider then looking around I was shocked to see how small it was compared to canopies half it's size. Some of the saber 1 slider fixes I read were like 33x35 for 200 sqft canopies

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[Anvilbrother 0]

http://www.pcprg.com/hardop.htm. Their study is what got me thinking about larger sliders along with the history of sabre 1's

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[davelepka 4]

There are some rediculous sizes out there. Try to keep the changes along gthe chord line (front to back) in the beginning. Changes to the span can sometimes open up the nose too much and not result in any improvement.

The slider upsize should really be the first step. It's the easiest and requires no sewing. You can try calling PD, Aerodyne, Percision, and any loft you can think of to see if anyone has a used slider in the size you need. It's a cheap way to experiment with a different size, and if it deosn't help you can usually return it after a few jumps. Typically with a new slider if you jump it you own it, good or bad.

Edit to add - the canopy manufacturers should all have a good selection of slider sizes they use for R&D. Even if they don't want to sell them, you could ask to borrow one at a time for your own R&D, with the understanding that you'll purchase a new one from them provided you find a size that works for you.

[Anvilbrother 0]

Whats your thoughts on the difference in a zero p vs f111 slider of the same size. Seems like it would catch and hold more air and descend slower.

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[davelepka 4]

Z-po should make a difference if your F-111 slider is well used. That's one reason you start with a small upsize of the slider, you'll also be switching over to Z-po. Between the size and material, you should see an improvement.

[mjosparky 4]

davelepka
We are talking about a canopy that is 370 sq. ft. and has cell openings the size of a car door. You can’t compare the opening performance of the smaller 9 cell sport canopies to something like the MT-1X. He asked what I would do and that’s what I posted. I have more than a few jumps on that system at altitudes up to 30,000 ft. with openings around 20,000 ft.

Anvilbrother
I did some research and found out that the slider you have now is the wrong size. You need to have one 27” x 28” with the 27” going front to back. I also found the Para Flite is using a lipped slider on the MT-1Z canopy. You might give one of then a try. I still would recommend the canopy mod I posted.

Sparky

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp55/mjosparky/Skydiving/Slider.jpg

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp55/mjosparky/Skydiving/lip_0002-1.jpg

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp55/mjosparky/Skydiving/lip1.jpg

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Anvilbrother 0]

I appreciate that info sir! Dz.com is a great resource thanks to everyone for your reply. I feel softer openings in my future:)

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[masterrigger1 2]

  Quote

..........Dz.com is a great resource

Anvil,
First, feel free to contact me regarding your issues.

Second, there is probably more bad info than good in this thread.

With your size, experimenting with your canopy could be deadly...period.

Sparky's recommendation of the correct slider is in order.
Try only that first.

Cheers,
MEL

Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

[azureriders 0]

Well it seems that my suggestion has already been answered through some research by others but here goes anyway. You know our big-boy rig has the same canopies in it. You could open it up and measure the slider and compare. I will be glad to do this for you next weekend if you would like, just cost you a pack job the next time you are out. I would say just wait until it is open anyway, but as of now I have no big boy on the schedule.

As for talking to the riggers there. Ben has had good success with the construction of pocket sliders. As well J.C. has had equally good success with over sized sliders. I would trust the opinions of either.

If your current slider is indeed undersized, I would say haveing one made the propper size out of ZP would show some considerable differences.

Let me know if I can do anything else to help.