Zenister 0
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crzjp20 0
there have been about 6 that have been charged thus far. And mor ewill come, yu have to be patient.
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Fear is not a confession of weakness, it is an oportunity for courage.
Fear is not a confession of weakness, it is an oportunity for courage.
crzjp20 0
Some of those people down there are proclaimed members of Al Queda or however you spell it. Is that not enough?
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Fear is not a confession of weakness, it is an oportunity for courage.
Fear is not a confession of weakness, it is an oportunity for courage.
Kennedy 0
QuoteThat violates the US constitution, which is more important than your opinion.
Bill, the constitution is subordinate to international treaties in international affairs.
witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*
Quotethere have been about 6 that have been charged thus far. And mor ewill come, yu have to be patient.
How patient would you be if you were there for a year and a half?
billvon 3,116
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> Without taking me back to the crusades, maybe you can name
>some rapists that America backs.
Uzbekistan, our ally in the war on terror:
(New York, June 3, 2003) Another Uzbek prisoner was tortured to death, contradicting U.S. claims that Uzbekistan is making progress on human rights, Human Rights Watch said today.
"Most persons who are detained due to their religious beliefs are subjected to torture, including beatings, needles under the nails, rape and burning of hands and other parts of the body."
The contras, who we supported to the tune of $19 million:
"The contras blew up bridges, civilian power plants and schools, they burned fields of crops and attacked hospitals. Their tactics included rape, kidnappings of peasants and civilians, ambushes and massacres against small rural communities, farms, co-operatives, schools and health clinics."
And of course we supported the radical islamic terrorist group called the Mujahideen; don't know if they raped anyone although they killed an awful lot of people. And of course they gave rise to Al Qaeda.
>some rapists that America backs.
Uzbekistan, our ally in the war on terror:
(New York, June 3, 2003) Another Uzbek prisoner was tortured to death, contradicting U.S. claims that Uzbekistan is making progress on human rights, Human Rights Watch said today.
"Most persons who are detained due to their religious beliefs are subjected to torture, including beatings, needles under the nails, rape and burning of hands and other parts of the body."
The contras, who we supported to the tune of $19 million:
"The contras blew up bridges, civilian power plants and schools, they burned fields of crops and attacked hospitals. Their tactics included rape, kidnappings of peasants and civilians, ambushes and massacres against small rural communities, farms, co-operatives, schools and health clinics."
And of course we supported the radical islamic terrorist group called the Mujahideen; don't know if they raped anyone although they killed an awful lot of people. And of course they gave rise to Al Qaeda.
goose491 0
Quote
That's what trials are for. Do you know for a fact that there is not one person in XRay who was picked up in error? That not one person there was a legitimate Afghan soldier entitled to POW status, or a person who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time?
I think it's obvious that he does. He's not just shootin in the dark here.
Quotesays a good friend who just returned from a tour of duty down there, says my cousin who is stationed there, says the video released my the DOD, say me. I am not basing my assumptions on just what he says. I am basing it on what i have seen, and what i have read and heard through my unit. Im not shootin in the dark here.
Sorry to have played this out in a roundabout way... but I wanted to see your sources.
What does your friend who just returned say about how these prisonners are being proven guilty? Why does your friend think they are there and not yet executed?
What does you cousin have to say about the certainty that they are guilty. What does the ol' cous' know about why there has not been a decision made as to what to do with them?
What have you seen that proves beyond reasonable doubt that these detainees deserve to be imprisoned and given no contact with council or family?
A video from the DOD? Well now, certainly they would be the first to point out that the DOD is committing a great wrong. Can you say conflict of interest?
My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!
Let's not forget Egypt:
Quote(New York, February 26, 2004) – Egypt’s security forces and police routinely torture and abuse detainees, particularly during interrogation, and the government’s failure to address the problem has created an atmosphere of impunity, Human Rights Watch said in a new briefing paper released today.
The 9-page briefing paper, “Egypt’s Torture Epidemic,” provides an overview of the country’s torture problem and documents the government’s failure to investigate credible allegations of torture and ill-treatment. An appendix details 17 cases of death in detention in 2002 and 2003 in which torture is known or suspected to be the cause of death.
“Egypt’s security forces used to employ torture primarily against political dissidents, especially suspected Islamist activists and sympathizers,” said Joe Stork, acting executive director of Human Rights Watch’s Middle East and North Africa Division. “Nowadays, ordinary Egyptians who find themselves in police custody for any reason whatsoever risk being tortured.”
The briefing paper recommends policy initiatives and legal reforms to address the problem. Human Rights Watch called on the government to establish an independent body of judicial and medical experts to oversee prompt investigations of torture allegations against law enforcement officials.
Egypt acceded to the Convention Against Torture in June 1986. As a state party to this international treaty, Egypt is obliged to investigate allegations of torture, prosecute perpetrators and sentence those found guilty to penalties that take into account the grave nature of the offense.
Kennedy 0
Don't forget our puppets in South America.
witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*
JohnRich 4
Quotehttp://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/pdm.htm
Thanks for that description of a PDM. But someone at that web site really needs to learn how to spell!
SkyDekker 1,465
QuoteI don't support this, nor do I believe that a majority of Americans. Without taking me back to the crusades, maybe you can name some rapists that America backs.
well, that one is pretty easy:
Saddam Hussain
SkyDekker 1,465
QuoteYou never use this argument when you're in the gun threads. In fact you advocate breaking laws that you don't agree with don't you?
What was that you said earlier about misdirection?
crzjp20 0
First off let me say this and i am not just bull shitting you here. he can not tell everything he knows, unfortuntaly its part of the gig. My clearence is not hugh enough to know, so how could you expect me to tell you details, it aint going to happen. What i can tell you is that they are being sourted out and are still being used as an intelegance source. i have been told by both that they openly proclain their alegance to bin laden adn the demise of the US.
As for their rights i go back to what i said earler, they have none. They do not fall under the bill of rights so they have no right to council and no right to family. Now the ones that are being put on trial, they have lawers. And the ones that will be but on trial in the future will have the same council.
It is obvious to be that you have made up your mind on this issue and even if i took you down there and showed you how they were treated and how there were taken care of you would still come back and say that we are abusing them and what not. You have admited that you are Anti America, and anti bush so i dont know why i am even bothering to argue with you. You will no hear me say what you want me to say caseu it is not true. I think we are doing the right thing. It may take longer than you want it to, but the process is underway. Things take time, and we want to get all the intel out of them as we posible can. im sorry if you dont like it, but thats tough that is the way it is. you can disagree and i respect your disagrement casue you have a right to it. Speaking of which, millions of americans have died protecting those rights, millions have made the sacrafice of their lives for you and for me. Ever think about that? They give their life so you can sit here and hate the country they swear to defend. Thats passion. I kow that is alittle off the subject but i had to get it out.
Ok im off my soap box
As for their rights i go back to what i said earler, they have none. They do not fall under the bill of rights so they have no right to council and no right to family. Now the ones that are being put on trial, they have lawers. And the ones that will be but on trial in the future will have the same council.
It is obvious to be that you have made up your mind on this issue and even if i took you down there and showed you how they were treated and how there were taken care of you would still come back and say that we are abusing them and what not. You have admited that you are Anti America, and anti bush so i dont know why i am even bothering to argue with you. You will no hear me say what you want me to say caseu it is not true. I think we are doing the right thing. It may take longer than you want it to, but the process is underway. Things take time, and we want to get all the intel out of them as we posible can. im sorry if you dont like it, but thats tough that is the way it is. you can disagree and i respect your disagrement casue you have a right to it. Speaking of which, millions of americans have died protecting those rights, millions have made the sacrafice of their lives for you and for me. Ever think about that? They give their life so you can sit here and hate the country they swear to defend. Thats passion. I kow that is alittle off the subject but i had to get it out.
Ok im off my soap box
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Fear is not a confession of weakness, it is an oportunity for courage.
Fear is not a confession of weakness, it is an oportunity for courage.
benny 0
QuoteThey do not fall under the bill of rights so they have no right to council and no right to family. Now the ones that are being put on trial, they have lawers. And the ones that will be but on trial in the future will have the same council.
They may not have rights under our Constitution but they do have rights under the Geneva Convention. But in that case, what about Jose Padilla, an American citizen, held in military detention without being charged or given access to counsel. He's an American citizen, either he has rights or none of us do, at the whim of GWB anyway.
Never go to a DZ strip show.
Quoteyou can disagree and i respect your disagrement casue you have a right to it. Speaking of which, millions of americans have died protecting those rights, millions have made the sacrafice of their lives for you and for me. Ever think about that?
And they have given their lives to protect individual freedom and liberty, which this policy revokes. A lot of people thought the internment of Japanese Americans was a good idea at the time, too. History has proven differently (unless of course you think that WAS a good idea).
crzjp20 0
no i would have to say that was not a good idea. But the differance there is that they were american citizens, not combatants.... big differance.
I do not think that we are violating any of their rights, my opinion is that simple when it comes down to it. We are protecting our country. And protecting out country comes first and formost in my mind, not a proclaimed terrorist who want to see the demise of my great nation.
I do not think that we are violating any of their rights, my opinion is that simple when it comes down to it. We are protecting our country. And protecting out country comes first and formost in my mind, not a proclaimed terrorist who want to see the demise of my great nation.
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Fear is not a confession of weakness, it is an oportunity for courage.
Fear is not a confession of weakness, it is an oportunity for courage.
billvon 3,116
>First off let me say this and i am not just bull shitting you here. he
> can not tell everything he knows, unfortuntaly its part of the gig.
We heard the same thing about Iraq. "After we win we'll hear the _real_ reasons we were going in!" Well, not only did we not hear those reasons, it turns out the original reason wasn't even valid.
>Speaking of which, millions of americans have died protecting those
> rights, millions have made the sacrafice of their lives for you and for
> me. Ever think about that?
Yes. Have you? Millions have died to protect our constitution, a document we are currently trampling. Seems a little disrespectful to the men and women who died trying to uphold it.
> can not tell everything he knows, unfortuntaly its part of the gig.
We heard the same thing about Iraq. "After we win we'll hear the _real_ reasons we were going in!" Well, not only did we not hear those reasons, it turns out the original reason wasn't even valid.
>Speaking of which, millions of americans have died protecting those
> rights, millions have made the sacrafice of their lives for you and for
> me. Ever think about that?
Yes. Have you? Millions have died to protect our constitution, a document we are currently trampling. Seems a little disrespectful to the men and women who died trying to uphold it.
crzjp20 0
once agina the constitution does not apply to them, they are not citizens.
And yes i do think about it, i think about it daily when i put on my uniform, when i go to work, wehn i go to drill, yeah i think about it all the time. And you know what, as much as i dont like what your saying, ill put my life on the line so you can say it.
And yes i do think about it, i think about it daily when i put on my uniform, when i go to work, wehn i go to drill, yeah i think about it all the time. And you know what, as much as i dont like what your saying, ill put my life on the line so you can say it.
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Fear is not a confession of weakness, it is an oportunity for courage.
Fear is not a confession of weakness, it is an oportunity for courage.
billvon 3,116
>You never use this argument when you're in the gun threads.
??? I support the right of any adult, sane, non-criminal american to own a gun. Every gun owner is not an angry kook, and every supporter of gun control is not out to disarm all of america.
>In fact you advocate breaking laws that you don't agree with don't you?
If they are clearly unconstitutional, yes.
??? I support the right of any adult, sane, non-criminal american to own a gun. Every gun owner is not an angry kook, and every supporter of gun control is not out to disarm all of america.
>In fact you advocate breaking laws that you don't agree with don't you?
If they are clearly unconstitutional, yes.
benny 0
Quoteonce agina the constitution does not apply to them, they are not citizens.
And yes i do think about it, i think about it daily when i put on my uniform, when i go to work, wehn i go to drill, yeah i think about it all the time. And you know what, as much as i dont like what your saying, ill put my life on the line so you can say it.
You don't like Bill pointing out that the Constitution is being trampled? The (unliked) speech you're so willing to die for is no more important than the due process we're all guaranteed. Due process which is being undermined by our present government.
Never go to a DZ strip show.
QuoteI do not think that we are violating any of their rights, my opinion is that simple when it comes down to it. We are protecting our country. And protecting out country comes first and formost in my mind, not a proclaimed terrorist who want to see the demise of my great nation.
Than why are we wasting tax payer money with the Terry Nichols trial?
billvon 3,116
>once agina the constitution does not apply to them, they are not citizens.
Sorry, I have to go with what the constitution says, not what you say. And it does not say "citizens," it says "person." Pretty clear, and up until last year, no one seemed to have any problem with it.
Sorry, I have to go with what the constitution says, not what you say. And it does not say "citizens," it says "person." Pretty clear, and up until last year, no one seemed to have any problem with it.
Quote>once agina the constitution does not apply to them, they are not citizens.
Sorry, I have to go with what the constitution says, not what you say. And it does not say "citizens," it says "person." Pretty clear, and up until last year, no one seemed to have any problem with it.
And it has always, or at least for the most part, been applied to non-citizens being accused on American soil, as well. Because they are believed to be fundamental rights of all human beings. If serial killers, rapists and child molesters get these rights, why shouldn't the enemy combatants? Because of the geography of their birth? How hypocritical.
crzjp20 0
these people are not citizens and they were not caught in the US, besides a few who are rightfuly apealing to get the rights aloted to them. Get over it guys this is my opiino and if you dont like it tough. Im no longer trying to cahnge yours, so get ove the fact that we disagree.
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Fear is not a confession of weakness, it is an oportunity for courage.
Fear is not a confession of weakness, it is an oportunity for courage.
yup, and wounding and incapacitating his soldiers takes more of them out of the action than killing them does..
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.
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