What global warming will mean to you

[billvon 3,114]

>Do we want to break nature?

No. We should not try so hard to break nature; we should leave it alone to regulate itself as it has done for billions of years. Trying our best to break it is foolish.

[Keith 0]

Where did I say anything about SUV's or their owners?

Keith

Don't Fuck with me Keith - J. Mandeville

[billvon 3,114]

>Of course not.
>But if it happened...it would be nature.

OK, OK. So everything we do is part of nature. Late term abortion is natural. Chemical weapons are part of nature. Nuclear war, flowers, genetically engineered food, coal fired power plants, arsenic in your drinking water - all 100% natural. I have the same question as I had before. Do you want that natural arsenic in your drinking water, or is it worth it to not take that sort of risk with your health?

[happythoughts 0]

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Where did I say anything about SUV's or their owners?

...and where did I say I was speakin' to you whitebread? You were just at the bottom when I hit the reply button.

Just a general question. Everyone always seems to have a real good idea what everyone else should do. Figured I'd put the ball in their court.

[Keith 0]

I know I was pullin' your leg. 'Cause I know you wouldn't call me a hipocrite.

Keith

Don't Fuck with me Keith - J. Mandeville

[elfanie 0]

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>Of course not.
>But if it happened...it would be nature.

OK, OK. So everything we do is part of nature. Late term abortion is natural. Chemical weapons are part of nature. Nuclear war, flowers, genetically engineered food, coal fired power plants, arsenic in your drinking water - all 100% natural. I have the same question as I had before. Do you want that natural arsenic in your drinking water, or is it worth it to not take that sort of risk with your health?

I think that there are times when messing with nature is bad bad bad..
and there are times when I think messing with nature is good good good.

Blowing ourselves up = bad
curing diseases = good

As for global warming...I do not feel educated enough to make a strong opinion one way or the other. If someone could prove to me that what we are doing will have a negative impact...then I vote for "bad humans".
However..it's possible that what we are doing will not have negative long term effects and that changing things could actually make it worse..in which case I'd vote "good humans".

but as it is..I don't feel that I know enough to form a strong opinion one way or the other..
I've seen where human interferance causes more problems than it helps (such as childbirth - my field of work)..and I've seen where it helped more than causes problems (even in childbirth - my field of work) so I know it can go both ways..

just don't know which way we're swinging on this particular issue.

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Elfanie
My Skydiving Page
Fly Safe - Soft Landings

[benny 0]

I completely agree that some people do some things for fun that affect the environment, but, there is already technology available that will allow people to have fun SUVs with higher efficiency. I think it sucks that we pollute with Jet-A but have they come up with a more efficient airplane engine yet? I hope they do that would be neato-kineto.

Never go to a DZ strip show.

[mnischalke 0]

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Nope. Tree ring size is a good way to tell what local climates do. Ice layer thickness tells how much snow there was on a given year. Oxygen isotopes in that ice tells what the average ocean temperature was.

So at best, these are merely educated guesses.

Q. Where are the dinosaurs? Did they eliminate themselves with their factories and SUVs?

mike

Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills.

[lawrocket 3]

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You picked a bad analogy. I'd burn everything I have if I thought it had a 1% chance of saving my Mom's life. Your hole point seems to be that possessions are worth something, weighed against life, they aren't worth a thing.

Actually, you left out the second part. If you did not burn everything and there was only a 1 percent chance of saving your mother's life, what would you do?

Actually, a better analogy may be, "if you burned everything and found out that it caused the hastening of the death, what would you do?"

I know we understand each other's points. I respect your opinions, and it's a great discussion.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[happythoughts 0]

If they extend my contract, I'm going to ask for a laptop so I can work from home. It will do allow me to pursue my goals.

Saving gas and the environment.
Dressing casual during working hours. Underwear.
Spending less on business lunches. Bourbon.

[billvon 3,114]

>So at best, these are merely educated guesses.

Just like it is an educated guess that a given antibiotic will cure your infection. Would you take an antibiotic if prescribed by your doctor for an illness?

[mnischalke 0]

see, now there ya go!

Greenie weenie skydivers are hypocrites. Until they come up with electric-powered jump aircraft, ya just might want to stay on the ground.

Got any clue as to the total emissions of a pair of -27 turbines as they pull an otter and 22 bodies up to altitude? Ha! Fuggedaboudit!

mike

Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills.

[happythoughts 0]

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Actually, you left out the second part. If you did not burn everything and there was only a 1 percent chance of saving your mother's life, what would you do?

My mother, God rest her soul, lived a long life and was cremated.

(We think that's what finally did her in.)

[mnischalke 0]

Brother, trust me, somewhere deep underground, ole Mother Nature has the antibiotic for us just waiting to be dug up.

mike

Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills.

[Salamander 0]

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For example, there is no question whatsoever that adding CO2 to an atmosphere increases its ability to trap IR radiation, which is the definition of a greenhouse effect. You can demonstrate this in a fish tank.

Fair enough... A fish tank does a great job of showing a greenhouse effect. However, it does not even come close to the complexity of issues surrounding the larger fish tank we live in. In the fish tank you eliminate variables that are too important to ignore in a global environment. We could come close to modelling a fish tank... now model every particle of every additive, how it interacts with every other particle, include the variations in the suns solar cylcles... see what I am getting at.

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Opponents of the greenhouse effect imagine some sort of "counter-effect" caused by clouds or ice that will completely negate the addition of CO2 to the atmosphere.

Or they imagine a situation where CO2 may actually cause a cooling affect all on its own. No counter effect needed.

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The smart thing to do when you don't understand what you're screwing around with is to not screw around with it. The stupid thing to do is to screw around with it until it's broken and you realize you can't fix it.

Agreed... so lets fight the battles that need fighting. Global warming becomes so popular and heated a topic that people ignore those problems that we know are serious. We already have enough contradictory science to say that we should just back off.. ie. not make things any worse, but don't bother trying to fix something that isn't broken.

[benny 0]

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see, now there ya go!

Greenie weenie skydivers are hypocrites. Until they come up with electric-powered jump aircraft, ya just might want to stay on the ground.

Got any clue as to the total emissions of a pair of -27 turbines as they pull an otter and 22 bodies up to altitude? Ha! Fuggedaboudit!

Have you ever heard of marketable pollution permits? I think they are really wonderful things. You should look into them. I still doubt that all the DZs in the world pollute as much as the SUVs.

Never go to a DZ strip show.

[happythoughts 0]

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Have you ever heard of marketable pollution permits? I think they are really wonderful things. You should look into them. I still doubt that all the DZs in the world pollute as much as the SUVs.

Interesting. Big evil and little evil. Since little evil is not so bad, it's ok?

[Keith 0]

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Actually, a better analogy may be, "if you burned everything and found out that it caused the hastening of the death, what would you do?"

The answer is obvious but that's not what we're talking about here is it? Decreasing pollution isn't going to hasten the end of the earth as we know it. Nice try though.

I agree it's a good discussion.

Keith

Don't Fuck with me Keith - J. Mandeville

[benny 0]

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Have you ever heard of marketable pollution permits? I think they are really wonderful things. You should look into them. I still doubt that all the DZs in the world pollute as much as the SUVs.

Interesting. Big evil and little evil. Since little evil is not so bad, it's ok?

Well I for one don't see pollution as evil, it happens, sometimes it happens so much that it's harmful. Maybe even sometimes that harm could be irreversible. Should we try to eliminate it? No, in most cases this simply wouldn't be reasonable. Should we try to reduce it? Yes. My question to you is, if there are systems already available which can significantly reduce emissions at no expense to your fun SUV, why wouldn't you want to use them?

Never go to a DZ strip show.

[happythoughts 0]

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Should we try to eliminate it? No, in most cases this simply wouldn't be reasonable.

It would be easy enough, no skydiving, no aviation fuel burnt. Of course, no jet skis, wave runners, motocross bikes, drag cars, 4-wheeling, water skiing...

If someone owns an SUV and it tickles them, it's just as valid as me skydiving. Pointless fun.

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if there are systems already available which can significantly reduce emissions at no expense to your fun SUV, why wouldn't you want to use them?

I can't imagine why you wouldn't. Of course, I don't own an SUV. I used to, but not anymore. I owned an El Camino. I believe it was the first SUV because I slept in it a lot and I toted my gear around in it. My El C got 18 mpg which may be better than some of the new ones.

[lawrocket 3]

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Actually, a better analogy may be, "if you burned everything and found out that it caused the hastening of the death, what would you do?"

The answer is obvious but that's not what we're talking about here is it? Decreasing pollution isn't going to hasten the end of the earth as we know it. Nice try though.

I agree it's a good discussion.

But, ending pollution will end our way of life. Decreasing it substantially will end our way of life. And, it'll shorten our life, too.

And, we do not know if it will do anything to stop global warming. That is the issue.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[sdgregory 0]

Isn't global weather shifts the norm for the earth? We just came out of an ice age so by definition the globe should be warming.

Good thing I trust in God to provide. I do not have to worry about this kind of stuff. Besides, life is too short to worry about things beyond our control.


And who is willing to do the right thing and lower their emissions? YOu gonna give up the 500 needless trips to altitude each year?

[benny 0]

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I can't imagine why you wouldn't. Of course, I don't own an SUV. I used to, but not anymore. I owned an El Camino. I believe it was the first SUV because I slept in it a lot and I toted my gear around in it. My El C got 18 mpg which may be better than some of the new ones.

You see, that's the thing that's really absurd. Gas mileage is getting worse. Why, because manufacturers simply don't give a f#$k, have lobbied congress not to do anything and even get exemptions from efficiency standards because they make things bigger. It's not to the average consumer's benefit to have reduced fuel efficiency... follow the money...

Never go to a DZ strip show.

[sdgregory 0]

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Still looking around the forums for who looks edible

EAT ME!!!!!!!!!

[mnischalke 0]

You're not, by any chance, currently a college student, are ya?

mike

Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills.