Car of the Future?

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

Quote

>So please tell us whether you personally LIKE or DISLIKE the notion
> of Big Brother being invited to take care of all this stuff for us, Billvon.

I do not consider the ability to make a phone call anywhere in the world to be an aspect of big brother. If I want E911, I'll get a phone that supports it. If not, I won't. If the government does want to trace my position, I expect the "unreasonable search and seizure" provisions of the fourth amendment of the constitution to limit what they can do.

I see. Thank you so much for specifically NOT answering my question.

Once again, "Please tell us whether you personally LIKE or DISLIKE the notion of Big Brother being invited to take care of all this stuff for us, Billvon."

By that, I mean, which do you prefer -- the supposed conveniences that come from ceding parts of your privacy and self-determination to Big Brother, or the supposed primitivity and inconvenience of a more "analog" world, where you have to do for yourself? We did alright for a long time when we couldn't pay for our gas by swiping a little plastic tab near the pump, but does the fact that we now can mean that you would never want to give it up, even if it was found to be abused by the government to keep track of you even when you're not under suspicion of having committed a crime? Because that's what life is continuing to become for us with the advance of Big Brother intrusion into more and more areas.
-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[D22369 0]

***Based on the driver's experience and driving record, the car adjusts its engine performance, cutting back for motorists with less experience or spotty driving records.


WOW....... Sounds a bit George Orwellian to me, on the plus side, maybe it could make my mother a safe driver

Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[quade 4]

PJ --

Yes, I am concerned about the Administration and their lack of respect for the rights granted in the U.S. Constitution -- even your 2nd Amendment rights. Yes, I -AM- concerned about that as well -- just not to the fanatical state that some other folks are.

I think I now understand your fears about the gun thing -- you're fearful of everything in which you don't feel you have absolute control.

If I were a paranoid, I'd be worried about a heck of a lot bigger things than the DMV citing me for speeding because of some GPS chip in my car or cell phone or tracking how many quarts of milk I buy at Ralph's grocery store. NONE of this crap is intended for Big Brother and none of it is the seventh sign of the apocalypse. It's NOT the mark of the Beast.

What you completely fail to recognise is that the Intel community can't track down known terrorist with all of this crap, there is simply too much information to process. Further, when it comes to YOU, why the hell would they even care? They don't! They go to great lengths to try to filter YOU and me and billvon out of the equation, but they can't, it's simply too much information to be filtered and analyzed in a timely manner -- so what WE are is noise. Totally unwanted noise.

BTW, billvon, why does Radio Shack ask you for your name and address when you by something as simple as a AA battery? No, it's not some nafarious plan to track down terrorists building bombs -- they just want to send you another freekin' catalog. Again, not Big Brother at all -- just some marketing wankers.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

Quote

PJ --

Yes, I am concerned about the Administration and their lack of respect for the rights granted in the U.S. Constitution -- even your 2nd Amendment rights. Yes, I -AM- concerned about that as well -- just not to the fanatical state that some other folks are.

I think I now understand your fears about the gun thing -- you're fearful of everything in which you don't feel you have absolute control.

I don't think that's a fair characterizationof me -- and I know me.

There is a big difference between being "fearful of everything" and being wary of encroachments on liberty.

Some take that more seriously than others. Apparently I take it more seriously than you do, that's all.

The thing is, there's a dichotomy:
- If you are watching, you will catch the encroachments if they occur and you will catch nothingif they don't occur.

but

- If you relax your guard because you don't think any encroachments are coming, you will be fine if they don't come, but you won't stop them if they do.

I think it's rather like keeping a fire extinguisher on hand. If you never have a fire, fine. Yes, you had to spend a nominal amount on the extinguisher, but no big deal. And if you do have a fire, you're gonna be real happy that you spent that money on the extinguisher, and it may save you the whole kit and kaboodle.
-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[kallend 2,148]

Quote

>So please tell us whether you personally LIKE or DISLIKE the notion
> of Big Brother being invited to take care of all this stuff for us, Billvon.

I do not consider the ability to make a phone call anywhere in the world to be an aspect of big brother. If I want E911, I'll get a phone that supports it. If not, I won't. If the government does want to trace my position, I expect the "unreasonable search and seizure" provisions of the fourth amendment of the constitution to limit what they can do.

That right is already routinely violated by agencies like BATFE.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[wallygator 0]

Quote

PJ --
BTW, billvon, why does Radio Shack ask you for your name and address when you by something as simple as a AA battery? No, it's not some nafarious plan to track down terrorists building bombs -- they just want to send you another freekin' catalog. Again, not Big Brother at all -- just some marketing wankers.

i went to a radio shack and bought some stuff gave my postal code and name as requested not required and i got a phone call from the local police department asking me questions on what i bought and why i bought it. the stuff i bought ;
4 alligator clips
6 9-volt battery connectors
6 9-volt batteries
2 plastic cases about 6inchesx5inichesx1/2 an inch in thickness
i bought this stuff to make a colodial silver generator, and i had to visit the local station and show them everything i bought.
cheers

--------------------------------------------------
who Jah bless Let no man curse.

[slug 1]

We have a serious illegal drug problem in our area, some type of a over the counter cold med is used to manufactor the drug in home labs.

In a attempt to limit the amount of problems associated wwith he drug, Someone has restricted the amount of the cold meds that can be bought at one time.

The retailers have been briefed by the police. If a customer buy's to much too often they can call the police.

Read in the local weekly paper the police were waiting for a customer with a very bad coldas he was leaving the store. He was arrested for possesion of illegal drugs (meth) Armed felon, Warrents.
R.I.P.

[billvon 3,116]

>This is an easy revenue builder for car rental companies. There is no
>reason why they would not desire to do it.

If no one rented the cars that had that technology, they would stop using it instantly. No company will put in a device that costs them business. If everyone wants it, then they will put it in, because people will rent their cars more often. Capitalism in action.


>No, I'm saying that if they offer you a "choice" between something
> very unpalatable to you and something they want to drive you
>to "choosing," that's not really a choice.

I refer you to the dieting example above. Yes, people often eat things they like less to lose weight i.e. they eat celery instead of steak. They decide to do something they don't like much to get a desired outcome. It's free will in action.

You can do just about whatever you want; that freedom is protected in the constitution. You have no right to demand that other people - car rental companies, fast food places, cellular providers - do what you want. You can, however, vote with your wallet; whatever people want to pay for is what will be successful.

>If I put a ferocious lion at your front door and you must leave the
> house, is it fair of me to say that I left you with the "choice" of
> going out the front door, or is it more accurate to say that I was
> really forcing you to go out an alternate exit like the back door,
> much as you may loathe leaving by the back door?

No, because you are threatening my life, and that's illegal. Absurd comparison.

> But what about my previous choice, which was to use a cellular
> phone that I was perfectly happy with BEFORE it had GPS in it to
> track me?!

So keep the phone you are happy with. Problem solved.

>but I USED to be JUST FINE and HAPPY with the old-style phone --
>the choice of which they will soon have taken away.

And some people prefer rotary dial phones, and horse-drawn buggies, and leaded gasoline. And that's no problem at all, if you can afford to buy that stuff. But it's silly to claim that you have a "right" to get any of it.

>It really sounds like you advocate acquiescing to all the tracking and
> keeping-tabs-on that is in store for us. You sound like an appeaser,
> like the kind of Jew who must have gone around in Nazi Germany to
> other Jews and said, "If we just behave like they want, hopefully
> they won't turn TOO abusive!" Telling everyone that they're afraid of
> phantom fears, and that they're being silly or paranoid.

Godwin's law. If you have no other way to push your point than to bring Hitler into the discussion, you lose the argument.

[billvon 3,116]

>That right is already routinely violated by agencies like BATFE.

Yes, and the Patriot Act contains yet more provisions that are blatant violations of the fourth amendment. The solution is to fix the problems of BATFE and the Patriot Act, not try to enforce a "no-GPS" law in phones.

[quade 4]

There has to be more to the story than that.

And, was this in the U.S. or Canada?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Guest]

Bill, you beat me to it. Godwin's Law, indeed.

mh

.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[Guest]

Quote

Quote

PJ --
BTW, billvon, why does Radio Shack ask you for your name and address when you by something as simple as a AA battery? No, it's not some nafarious plan to track down terrorists building bombs -- they just want to send you another freekin' catalog. Again, not Big Brother at all -- just some marketing wankers.

i went to a radio shack and bought some stuff gave my postal code and name as requested not required and i got a phone call from the local police department asking me questions on what i bought and why i bought it. the stuff i bought ;
4 alligator clips
6 9-volt battery connectors
6 9-volt batteries
2 plastic cases about 6inchesx5inichesx1/2 an inch in thickness
i bought this stuff to make a colodial silver generator, and i had to visit the local station and show them everything i bought.
cheers

Sheesh! Talk about Big Brother!

This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. Pros are going to find other ways to get stuff. The cops might collar the rare, odd amateur or two, but they'll mostly end up harassing harmless citizens in the process.

mh

.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[WrongWay 0]

Quote

Toyota has unveiled a concept car of the future that would very closely monitor, and in some cases restrict, the actions of its driver - including refusing to start.

Mine has that feature already.

Wrong Way
D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451
The wiser wolf prevails.

[lurch 0]

Thats fucking atrocious and absolutely, positively intolerable.

When I next go to Rack Shack I will put my name down as "Winston Smith". When they want to know what I'm building I'll put down "Iludium q-36 explosive space modulator" and see what happens.

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

[kallend 2,148]

Quote

Quote

PJ --
BTW, billvon, why does Radio Shack ask you for your name and address when you by something as simple as a AA battery? No, it's not some nafarious plan to track down terrorists building bombs -- they just want to send you another freekin' catalog. Again, not Big Brother at all -- just some marketing wankers.

i went to a radio shack and bought some stuff gave my postal code and name as requested not required and i got a phone call from the local police department asking me questions on what i bought and why i bought it. the stuff i bought ;
4 alligator clips
6 9-volt battery connectors
6 9-volt batteries
2 plastic cases about 6inchesx5inichesx1/2 an inch in thickness
i bought this stuff to make a colodial silver generator, and i had to visit the local station and show them everything i bought.
cheers

I hope they never stop by my workshop then, or I'll be in BIG trouble.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

i went to a radio shack and bought some stuff gave my postal code and name as requested not required and i got a phone call from the local police department asking me questions on what i bought and why i bought it.

Related story:

"Law enforcement officials are moving forward with a controversial antiterrorism database on the state level as the federal government is expanding the amount of information collected and retained about private citizens.

"This week, authorities disclosed that the state of Wisconsin had joined the Multistate Antiterrorism Information Exchange, known by the science-fiction film acronym "the Matrix," enabling officials there to log on and conduct digital dragnets for information about any person, including tdriver's license picture, home address, hunting and firearms licenses, domain-name registrations, professional licenses and even the names of friends and relatives.
Thus far, seven states are participating in the Matrix, including Connecticut, Florida, Michigan, Ohio, New York, Pennsylvania and now Wisconsin.

"The Matrix... collects and aggregates data from phone directories, financial filings with the state, criminal and civil court records, voter-registration rolls, property identification numbers and the like...

"Without a subpoena, the government can learn what you paid for your house, what news magazines you purchase and even where you've traveled on business or pleasure lately..."

Full Story: TechNewsWorld

[JohnRich 4]

How about this one? Some day soon the government may even be able to track how many aspirin you take every day:

"Information Mediary Corporation (IMC) is proud to announce the smart closure for medication bottles and vials. Med-ic eCAP™ is a programmable reminder and monitoring solution that tracks medication usage without active patient input. It consists of a "smart" sensor embedded in a bottle closure. Med-ic eCAP™ can easily be programmed to remind the patient when the next dose is due and records the time the patient opens the bottle to remove the tablet or capsule, thereby logging the patient's medication compliance..."

Full story: World's First Smart Medication Bottle

[slug 1]

Don't look up!

R.I.P.

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

You seem to be deliberately missing my point, over and over again.

Quote

>This is an easy revenue builder for car rental companies. There is no
>reason why they would not desire to do it.

If no one rented the cars that had that technology, they would stop using it instantly. No company will put in a device that costs them business. If everyone wants it, then they will put it in, because people will rent their cars more often. Capitalism in action.

The point is, when most or all of the companies decide that many customers won't be able to find a company that does not do this -- or if the government starts requiring that cars have the technology in use -- we won't be able to rent cars that don't have it. And simply not renting a car is not necessarily a viable option. What if I have an accident and for two weeks while my car is being repaired, I have to drive a rental just to get to work (not to mentionexamples of voluntary vacations out of town)? What if all the companies had this shit in their cars? Then it's no longer an "option" for me to simply not rent them. At that point I have to.

Quote

>No, I'm saying that if they offer you a "choice" between something
> very unpalatable to you and something they want to drive you
>to "choosing," that's not really a choice.

I refer you to the dieting example above. Yes, people often eat things they like less to lose weight i.e. they eat celery instead of steak. They decide to do something they don't like much to get a desired outcome. It's free will in action.

It's not free will if some outside force is ratcheting up the unpalatability of your "choice" until it is so horribly unpalatable to you that you will make the "choice" they want you to make. Sort of like taxing liquor and cigarettes more and more, or suggestions to tax ammunition at 10,000 percent (thank you Ted Kennedy you fatheaded piece of fascist shit).

I am not talking about a person who makes the choice between being a fat pig and maybe having to have celery instead of a sundae! I'm talking about when the government, or the car rental companies, leave you a choice between "tough it" or "do it our way."

Quote

You can do just about whatever you want; that freedom is protected in the constitution.

I must have an abridged version. I couldn't find that anywhere!

Quote

You have no right to demand that other people - car rental companies, fast food places, cellular providers - do what you want. You can, however, vote with your wallet; whatever people want to pay for is what will be successful.

In some cases this is patently untrue. I did not want to have to spend one and a half hours downloading another version of Explorer just so I could continue to do what I had been doing for a long time already -- checking my bank account transactions online. But one day I tried and found out that the old version no longer would communicate with the bank, due to the newer 128-bit encryption.

Similar things happen. Eventually you can bet your ass that the phone I have will be rendered "obsolete" and I will HAVE to buy a new one, even though the old one still works fine, because they will change the phone system technology. Do you still call it a "choice" I can make if I either HAVE to buy a new phone, or I can "CHOOSE" not to and simply no longer have use of a phone?

Quote

>If I put a ferocious lion at your front door and you must leave the
> house, is it fair of me to say that I left you with the "choice" of
> going out the front door, or is it more accurate to say that I was
> really forcing you to go out an alternate exit like the back door,
> much as you may loathe leaving by the back door?

No, because you are threatening my life, and that's illegal. Absurd comparison.

It's called "hyperbole." It's used to illustrate a point in heavier terms than usual, particularly to underscore specific points of interest or relevance. It does not have to necessarily be something that would actually happen.

You should get my point, though: what if the choice you wanted to make were made extremely unpleasant, even to the point of impossible (like giving your life to a lion attack just to go out your preferred front door)?

Quote

> But what about my previous choice, which was to use a cellular
> phone that I was perfectly happy with BEFORE it had GPS in it to
> track me?!

So keep the phone you are happy with. Problem solved.

Again, you refuse to see what I'm talking about. You are like a WALL.

I MAY NOT BE ABLE TO SIMPLY "KEEP THE PHONE I AM HAPPY WITH" because these companies -- and the government with its endless stream of new regulations -- may very conceivably make my happy phone obsolete, or require a new type of technology.

An aspect of this could easily come to pass. What if, under the guise of "security," of course, we come to a point where the government simply says it will stop issuing cash currency, and that everyone will, after a certain deadline, HAVE to conduct transactions with a kind of personal debit card that is linked to a central computer to keep track of everyone's purchases?

The fact is, the government regulates the banks, the economy and the treasury. If the government ordered the banks to not give out more currency, and to collect what is around, and refused to mint more money (which they say lasts about one to two years), this is an example of how we can be FORCED to "CHOOSE" what we don't want to do.

Watch. You'll see it happen. It may not be such blunt force, but perhaps they'll use various "incentives" by making the choice we would like to make very very inconvenient. It's already happened in Florida with the Turnpike. The toll went up ONLY FOR CARS THAT PAY WITH CASH. The "Sunpass" users still pay the old fees. What if they raised the rate 4000% for the cash users? What can stop them? And would you still be able to AFFORD to make your "CHOICE" to pay by cash?

Quote

>It really sounds like you advocate acquiescing to all the tracking and
> keeping-tabs-on that is in store for us. You sound like an appeaser,
> like the kind of Jew who must have gone around in Nazi Germany to
> other Jews and said, "If we just behave like they want, hopefully
> they won't turn TOO abusive!" Telling everyone that they're afraid of
> phantom fears, and that they're being silly or paranoid.

Godwin's law. If you have no other way to push your point than to bring Hitler into the discussion, you lose the argument.

Did I say "Hitler"? Where? I was talking about a particular kind of social behavior. I didn't "lose" jack shit. I think, rather, that you are the one who refused to discuss the point I had made with my example. I wonder why? Who the fuck is Godwin and why should I give a shit what he said?

-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[JohnRich 4]

News: Big Brother edges closer to 'total snooping'

"Are we "the most spied upon people in western Europe"?

"With closed circuit television pointed at us wherever we go, speed cameras trained on our cars and an army of public servants entitled to demand our personal telephone details or even follow us around, she seems to have a point..."

Full Story: London Telegraph

[slug 1]

We're Doomed! Dooomed!
Trilateral comision, Goverment conspiracy, Turner Diaries, Don't look up, credit cards, cellphone records, computer hard drives, computer chips inserted under the skin We're Doomed Doomed.

We're all Doomed!

R.I.P.

[wallygator 0]

Quote

We're Doomed! Dooomed!
Trilateral comision, Goverment conspiracy, Turner Diaries, Don't look up, credit cards, cellphone records, computer hard drives, computer chips inserted under the skin We're Doomed Doomed.

We're all Doomed!

R.I.P.

just watched a report on cnn on how the justice department is working with the fcc on making it law the they are able to tap the internet to trace and find people. the justice department wants traceing chips and software to be installed by the manufaturee,
who is watching them?
cheers

--------------------------------------------------
who Jah bless Let no man curse.

[Jimbo 0]

Quote

who is watching them?

Who guards the lifeguard's life when the lifeguard's life needs guarding?

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.