Re: [badenhop] PETA and Bridge Day

[freeflybella 0]

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I'm just trying to understand where you're coming from.

I think I've made that clear.

I don't have a "position". I have feelings and thoughts. I'm not an expert. I only know what I 'know'. I'm not a fact stater or bible thumper or paint thrower. I'm not perfect or pure or 'enlightened'.

I hope I do change people in that they at least think about the subject. Whatever you do with your life, you live with. I believe when you know something to be wrong (whatever that is) - when you really know it down deep - you owe it to yourself to do something. However small.

I'd wager you'd agree with that.

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[JohnRich 4]

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The bible, as a codified history of a people and the basis of a religion, is a good foundation for a church. It's a lousy ecology reference.

I happen to agree with that. However...

I used biblical quotes in reply, because the person to whom I was responding used "God" in her argument. Thus, I was simply replying in-kind.

To those who believe in the Bible, turning bible quotes back around on them to prove them wrong is an effective technique.

[JohnRich 4]

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Do you have any idea how much more food would be available if we stopped feeding our grain to cattle? For every 7 pounds of grain we feed to a cow, we yield less than 1 pound of meat. Not a very strong return on our crop. Doesn't sound like a system based on feeding the most people.

Yes, I do know - I wrote a college paper on it once.

It's a system designed to give people the kind of food they want. I'm all in favor of people having the right to choose what they want to eat, and not having food choices dictated to them by someone who thinks they know better.

[JohnRich 4]

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You guys certainly aren't hunters... you're gatherers. You gather your meat at a store or a restaraunt. You gather the power bars and Soda at the same place.

So? That's modern society. There are too many of us for everyone to have their own farm. We have to specialize.

Maybe a good nuclear war that wiped out 95% of all human beings would be good for your scheme of things.

[lawrocket 3]

You know, it's funny when you think about it.

Skydivers discussing whether human beings are acting as God intended or doing things according to Nature's design.

If we were worried about putting our bodies through things in a logical sense, we would not be participating in this sport.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[hookitt 1]

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Maybe a good nuclear war that wiped out 95% of all human beings would be good for your scheme of things.

Are you angry with me

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[billvon 3,111]

>Yes, you got it.

oops!

[freeflybella 0]

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To those who believe in the Bible, turning bible quotes back around on them to prove them wrong is an effective technique.

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I'm all in favor of people having the right to choose what they want to eat, and not having food choices dictated to them by someone who thinks they know better.

Let me guess...you skimmed.

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[beowulf 1]

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Your not eating meat does nothing to stop me or anyone else from doing so and does nothing about farmers 'mistreating' cows

You're just plain wrong.

There is more to life than big sweeping change, radical overhauls and paradigm shifts.

Life is subtle and long-lasting. Every single thing you and I do has an effect. I'm sorry you feel so insignificant but you're not.

The power of a small act is overlooked only by those who choose not to see it. And the smallest acts of kindness are usually the ones with the greatest impact.

I'm not trying to change you. I don't know you. Are YOU trying to change MY mind? If not, what are you all so upset about? I'll listen to any point anyone has to make except for "tastes great" and "I don't care".

I am not upset I just think it is unusual for someone to think that by not eating meat that some how that will influence the rest of the people in the world to do the same. Its kind of like a religous person believing that they are right and everyone else is wrong and then trying to get everyone else to believe the same. It is an excercise in futility, never will there be a time when everyone will agree to to believe the same way. Just because you think its wrong to eat meat and you think that the meat industries are torturing the animals that are being slaughtered doesn't make it true. What do you consider torture? I have seen hogs being killed and butchered in mass quantitys. I would not say those hogs were tortured in any way. They electrocuted them. The hogs died quickly. That was only at one slaughter house, but I seriously doubt that it would be much different at others. They set things up to be as efficent as possible. They lose money if things don't get done quickly.

[freeflybella 0]

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I just think it is unusual for someone to think that by not eating meat that some how that will influence the rest of the people in the world to do the same.

If you believe that 'life' is bigger than just you, and the world is bigger than your lifetime - why wouldn't you think small changes could have great impact?

Think about the woman you're married to. Think about how you met. If any of the things surrounding your meeting had changed, would you still have met?

If I didn't go to an SSI Freefly Competition in Maine - and just had my heart broken - I might never have met and aggressively pursued the guy that I am now going to marry 5 years later.

In other words, you might have won the world cup of canopy piloting if I hadn't met my fiancé.
I don't eat meat, dairy and eggs. It causes conversation. It causes thought. Whatever happens after that, how should I know?

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[beowulf 1]

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>I think it is ridiculus for people to attribute human aspects to
> animals. They are animals.

Have you ever spent any time with animals? They share many traits with humans, including the ability to feel affection, pain, lust, anger, hunger, fear and happiness.

We're omnivores, and that means we eat meat, which means we kill animals to do so. We're also civilized beings, which means we can and should treat even the animals we eat humanely. Most people understand this; even most 'evil hunters' won't leave a gutshot deer to wander a few hours with its intestines trailing behind it.

>Does killing a cow and eating it qualify?

No; you can raise and slaughter an animal humanely or you can torture it to death. And if you think there's no difference you've never been on a farm.

Sometimes I write things a little to quickly. Some people, mostly the hardcore PETA people, tend to put animals lives and well being at the same level or even higher in priority then humans. This is, in my opinion, just plain nuts. I don't care how attached I am to that dog or cat it still doesn't come close to being more important or even just as important as a human. I don't think that it is OK to torture animals. I do think that many of these PETA people have an insane view as to what torture is. The cattle industry along with the other meat industries do their best to run things as efficiently as possible. They have no interest in wasting time torturing animals. Money is time. Just ask a plant manager how much money is lost for just one hour of down time.

[beowulf 1]

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I just think it is unusual for someone to think that by not eating meat that some how that will influence the rest of the people in the world to do the same.

If you believe that 'life' is bigger than just you, and the world is bigger than your lifetime - why wouldn't you think small changes could have great impact?

Think about the woman you're married to. Think about how you met. If any of the things surrounding your meeting had changed, would you still have met?

If I didn't go to an SSI Freefly Competition in Maine - and just had my heart broken - I might never have met and aggressively pursued the guy that I am now going to marry 5 years later.

In other words, you might have won the world cup of canopy piloting if I hadn't met my fiancé.
I don't eat meat, dairy and eggs. It causes conversation. It causes thought. Whatever happens after that, how should I know?

I don't presume that anything that I do will change anyones mind or influence anyone. If it does then it does. I certainly don't spend any time thinking about it. I just concentrate on my life and trying to meet the goals that I set for myself. I don't have any lofty goals of changing the world. It isn't my goal to make a difference in this world. I guess I am just being selfish. Who knows? I have plenty of problems to deal with, with out adding the weight of the world on top.

[billvon 3,111]

>The cattle industry along with the other meat industries do their best
> to run things as efficiently as possible. They have no interest in
> wasting time torturing animals. Money is time. Just ask a plant
> manager how much money is lost for just one hour of down time.

I agree, but sometimes they go too far in the other direction i.e. they torture animals in the name of efficiency. In some chicken farms they leave less than half a square foot per bird. They cut off their beaks to prevent them from attacking each other. Occasionally they slip and cut off part of its face. Many of them die, and they leave the corpses to rot among the surviving chickens. Usually the rotting corpse gets identified and discarded before all the chickens are slaughtered and prepped for sale, but not always.

Not all factory farms are like this, but some are. I think it's worthwhile spending a little effort to support the better farms, ones that put a bit more effort into treating their animals humanely even if it means an occasional ten minutes of down time.

[mnischalke 0]

YES!!!! Just like in the Meatrix!




(edit: fixed the link!--thanks j.r.)

mike

Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills.

[JohnRich 4]

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Maybe a good nuclear war that wiped out 95% of all human beings would be good for your scheme of things.

Are you angry with me

Not at all. I'm just debating, like everyone else.

But the only solution that comes to mind to resolve your complaints about the mass production of meat, would seem to be to take the world back about 200 years in time...

[JohnRich 4]

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YES!!!! Just like in the Meatrix!

Link not found. I think you've got a quote-mark in there which doesn't belong.

http://www.themeatrix.com/

[hookitt 1]

Nah.. .. I think if you read my tone.. which of course is difficult over the internet.. you'd know I was capping on the folks I called gatherers...which they are. So are you and I for that matter.

A nuclear war would be stupid. That would be total destruction. If I must get snuffed out, I'd prefer it's not from a nuclear holocaust.

I'd say though if large industries weren't such money grubbing fools destroying the earth with poison, (insecticides among other things) steroids, antibiotics, over crowding, clear cutting trees... so much to list! so little time....

The world as a whole would be healthier stronger and wiser. However people don't want to know.
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Edit... I just watched the Meatrix..

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[DJL 235]

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But the only solution that comes to mind to resolve your complaints about the mass production of meat, would seem to be to take the world back about 200 years in time...

That's not what would happen. Most environmentalists are not engineers and frankly don't have a clue. But your response to these scary, scary liberals needs to be better than "no." The solution comes when intelligent people like you and me realize that meat from a sickly animal tastes like rubber and that river you love to fish in is full of animal shit. We then say, "we can do this a bit better." So, the solution isn't to not do it, but to use our brains and make a workable system.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[billvon 3,111]

>But the only solution that comes to mind to resolve your complaints
> about the mass production of meat, would seem to be to take the
> world back about 200 years in time...

Ever been to Whole Foods? They carry primarily organically grown foods, and yet they still have electricity and indoor plumbing!

One of the cool things about advancing science and technology is that we can actually do things _better_ than we used to do. An organic farmer is many times more productive than a farmer of 200 years ago; he understands much more about which fertilizers and pesticides to use, how to rotate his crops, what to plant and when to harvest. He's not quite as productive as the factory farm down the way, but that merely results in higher food prices, not a return to days of horse-drawn plows and whale oil lamps.

[JohnRich 4]

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I'd say though if large industries weren't such money grubbing fools destroying the earth with poison, (insecticides among other things) steroids, antibiotics, over crowding, clear cutting trees... so much to list! so little time....

The world as a whole would be healthier stronger and wiser.

If we got rid of all those things, we'd have more disease, less food, and fewer homes to live in.

And trees are a renewable resource. Many forestry companies plant more trees than they harvest.

[freeflybella 0]

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Most environmentalists are not engineers and frankly don't have a clue. But your response to these scary, scary liberals needs to be better than "no." The solution comes when intelligent people like you and me realize that meat from a sickly animal tastes like rubber and that river you love to fish in is full of animal shit. We then say, "we can do this a bit better." So, the solution isn't to not do it, but to use our brains and make a workable system.

You're right. Most environmentalists are not engineers. Neither are most meat eaters. Or Canadians. Or people with ear hair. What's your point?

I don't do it because I'm NOT an engineer. I'm saying I won't eat it like this. When you intelligent people find a way to do it better, maybe I'll reconsider. I really am hoping that day comes soon.

Besides, DJL, if you're so smart why haven't you yet realized sick meat tastes like rubber and your river is full of shit? And if you have realized it - why the hell would you eat it?

The only arrogance I've seen in this thread is not from the "scary, scary liberals".

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi