Gravitymaster 0 #1 March 17, 2004 A few people on here recently were making claims this was true. No evidence: Levin's latest accusations against Pentagon blow up in his face Washington Post debunks more of Levin's allegations. Yet another congressional "investigation" of the administration's anti-terrorism efforts has blown up in the faces of the accusers. www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A54569-2004Mar12.html The Washington Post finds no truth to the allegations, led by Senator Carl Levin (D-Mich.), that Pentagon leaders set up their own unauthorized bureaucracy to collect their own intelligence and shape the rationale for the war effort. "Congressional Democrats contend that two Pentagon shops -- the Office of Special Plans and the Policy Counterterrorism Evaluation Group -- were established by [Defense Secretary Donald] Rumsfeld, [Under Secretary of Defense for Polich Douglas] Feith and other defense hawks expressly to bypass the CIA and other intelligence agencies," according to the Post. "They argue that the offices supplied the administration with information, most of it discredited by the regular intelligence community, that President Bush, Cheney and others used to exaggerate the Iraqi threat." "Neither the House nor Senate intelligence committees, for example, which have been investigating prewar intelligence for eight months, have found support for allegations that Pentagon analysts went out and collected their own intelligence, congressional officials from both parties say," the Post reports. "Nor have investigators found that the Pentagon analysis about Iraq significantly shaped the case the administration made for going to war." Levin is considered the key operator in a scandal over Senate Democrats' use of the intelligence committee for partisan political purposes. The scandal, which has paralyzed the Senate intelligence oversight process, erupted in a scandal last fall when a memo by the staff of Senator Jay Rockefeller (D-W.V), the top Democrat on the committee, outlined a plan to use the investigative processes to destabilize the Bush administration as it tried to carry out the war on terror. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #2 March 17, 2004 What? You mean these committees are politically motivated - damn, and I thought that they were looking for the truth.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #3 March 17, 2004 I really hope Mr. Levin and others will gracefully resign. This is the type of wrong-headed lack of judgement that this country doesn't need right now. These type of false charges are what embolden our enemies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #4 March 17, 2004 It is sad when this is brought to light - It makes one wonder how much isn't.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #5 March 17, 2004 QuoteThe Washington Post finds no truth to the allegations, led by Senator Carl Levin (D-Mich.), that Pentagon leaders set up their own unauthorized bureaucracy to collect their own intelligence and shape the rationale for the war effort. "Congressional Democrats contend that two Pentagon shops -- the Office of Special Plans and the Policy Counterterrorism Evaluation Group -- were established by [Defense Secretary Donald] Rumsfeld, [Under Secretary of Defense for Polich Douglas] Feith and other defense hawks expressly to bypass the CIA and other intelligence agencies," according to the Post. "They argue that the offices supplied the administration with information, most of it discredited by the regular intelligence community, that President Bush, Cheney and others used to exaggerate the Iraqi threat." "Neither the House nor Senate intelligence committees, for example, which have been investigating prewar intelligence for eight months, have found support for allegations that Pentagon analysts went out and collected their own intelligence, congressional officials from both parties say," the Post reports. "Nor have investigators found that the Pentagon analysis about Iraq significantly shaped the case the administration made for going to war." Levin is considered the key operator in a scandal over Senate Democrats' use of the intelligence committee for partisan political purposes. Oh Dr Kallend??????? Comments?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #6 March 17, 2004 Politics is scummy. Liberals and conservatives are both guilty of these types of tactics. Wish it weren't true, but it's the reality we have to deal with. That's why we live in these times of choosing between lesser of 2 evils. But read into the story a little bit. Bush has been claiming that he had intelligence that has turned out to be false. The CIA claimed they didn't give him that intelligence. Claims were made that these groups were the suppliers. So, if in fact, they didn't supply the faulty intelligence, and the CIA didn't. Then....Bush made it up??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #7 March 17, 2004 I think we have all had about enough of "reading into things". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #8 March 17, 2004 Quote Then....Bush made it up??? Oh please. I tell ya what though - at least he picks something that makes a difference to lie about, IF in fact he did. Botox anyone?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #9 March 17, 2004 QuoteBut read into the story a little bit. Bush has been claiming that he had intelligence that has turned out to be false. The CIA claimed they didn't give him that intelligence. Claims were made that these groups were the suppliers. So, if in fact, they didn't supply the faulty intelligence, and the CIA didn't. Then....Bush made it up??? Well I'm willing to bet that someone gave bad intel...I am also willing to bet that no one will fess up to it. (Not may people admit making mistakes...particulary in politics). But lik eI have said before...If you can PROVE Bush lied about WMD's...I'll join you to oust him. But without Proof, don't say he lied. And my big issue was how Dr.Kallend alwasy used this to show how Bush lied..Or how he manipulated the intel....Now it seems it was BS."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,147 #10 March 17, 2004 QuotePolitics is scummy. Liberals and conservatives are both guilty of these types of tactics. Wish it weren't true, but it's the reality we have to deal with. That's why we live in these times of choosing between lesser of 2 evils. But read into the story a little bit. Bush has been claiming that he had intelligence that has turned out to be false. The CIA claimed they didn't give him that intelligence. Claims were made that these groups were the suppliers. So, if in fact, they didn't supply the faulty intelligence, and the CIA didn't. Then....Bush made it up??? You have to be smart to invent things. Must have been someone else.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #11 March 17, 2004 The fact of the matter is EVERYONE thought Saddam had WMDs. before the war. The Liberals have contended GWB "KNEW" he didn't have them and then manipulated intel to make it look like Saddam did. The Liberals have made these accusations purely for political purposes with no basis in truth. The fact that Mr. Levin and his ilk would fabricate a lie like this, and the Liberals would follow in lock-step without any evidence is disgusting. Mr. Levin and anyone involved in perpetrating this outrageous charge should be ashamed of themselves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,594 #12 March 17, 2004 True. A lot of it was given to him by Tony Blair. It was given to Blair by the british intelligence services. The british intelligence services plagiarised a large portion from a PhD thesis they found on the internet. So hey, Bush is off the hook right?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #13 March 17, 2004 "The fact of the matter is EVERYONE thought Saddam had WMDs. before the war." That would be everyone except Hans Blix. The guy who's job it was to find and monitor them......-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #14 March 17, 2004 Quote"The fact of the matter is EVERYONE thought Saddam had WMDs. before the war." That would be everyone except Hans Blix. The guy who's job it was to find and monitor them...... Oh really??? I don't remember Hans Blix coming out and declaring he was leaving Iraq because they didn't have WMDs. Perhaps you can point me to a statement ole Hans made BEFORE the war that indicated this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #15 March 17, 2004 "declaring he was leaving Iraq because they didn't have WMDs. " He was pulled out by the UN. He didn't leave because they couldn't find any, he left because the country was about to be liberated, and the UN could not guarantee his safety.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #16 March 17, 2004 QuoteThe Liberals have contended GWB "KNEW" he didn't have them and then manipulated intel to make it look like Saddam did. I don't recall anyone saying that Bush knew they didn't exist. The accusation is that he didn't know if he still had them or not, but said that he was sure and knew where they were. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #17 March 17, 2004 QuoteQuoteThe Liberals have contended GWB "KNEW" he didn't have them and then manipulated intel to make it look like Saddam did. I don't recall anyone saying that Bush knew they didn't exist. The accusation is that he didn't know if he still had them or not, but said that he was sure and knew where they were. Let the backpeddling begin. Many here contended Bush lied about Saddam possessing WMDs. The only way Bush could have lied is if he KNEW Saddam didn't have them and then manipulated Intel to indicate he DID have them. I won't even begin to quote the people and the number of times this claim was made because they know who they are and so do you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
n2skdvn 0 #18 March 17, 2004 for both sidesif my calculations are correct SLINKY + ESCULATOR = EVERLASTING FUN my site Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,147 #19 March 17, 2004 QuoteQuoteQuoteThe Liberals have contended GWB "KNEW" he didn't have them and then manipulated intel to make it look like Saddam did. I don't recall anyone saying that Bush knew they didn't exist. The accusation is that he didn't know if he still had them or not, but said that he was sure and knew where they were. Let the backpeddling begin. Many here contended Bush lied about Saddam possessing WMDs. The only way Bush could have lied is if he KNEW Saddam didn't have them and then manipulated Intel to indicate he DID have them. I won't even begin to quote the people and the number of times this claim was made because they know who they are and so do you. The CIA warned the White House prior to the SoU adress Jan. 2003 that the "intel" about uranium from Niger was bogus. GWB used the story anyway in the 2003 SoU address. The CIA revealed in early November 2002 that the "45 minutes to deploy WMD" story was untrue. Bush used it anyway, Nov 24, 2002. The IAEA inspectors found "NO EVIDENCE" of an Iraqi nuclear weapons program www.un.org/News/dh/iraq/elbaradei27jan03.htm but GWB continued to claim there was one. BUSH LIED (just to please Ron).... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #20 March 17, 2004 QuoteLet the backpeddling begin. No backpeddling. Manipulation of information on your part. It's a trait you seem to share with Bush. QuoteMany here contended Bush lied about Saddam possessing WMDs. I still contend that. QuoteThe only way Bush could have lied is if he KNEW Saddam didn't have them and then manipulated Intel to indicate he DID have them. If he didn't know if he still had them, but said that he did know, and had proof, and knew where they were, when in fact he didn't have that information. That is still a lie. QuoteI won't even begin to quote the people and the number of times this claim was made because they know who they are and so do you. Please quote someone saying that Bush knew there were no WMD. Because I never said it and don't recall anyone else saying it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #21 March 17, 2004 QuoteNo backpeddling. Manipulation of information on your part. It's a trait you seem to share with Bush. I consider this a personal attack. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,114 #22 March 17, 2004 >I consider this a personal attack. This from the guy who told PhillyKev "learn to read" in another thread? Geez, don't dish it out if you can't take it. But I'll lock the thread in any case since it seems to be going downhill fast. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
