skydiverkeith 1 #1 August 10, 2010 I spoke with someone yesterday who mentioned they use 2 closing loops on their main. He knots both of them together and they both thread through the same washer. Then he simply puts the closing pin through both loops. It seems excessive but got me thinking. Many jumpers use redundant safeties. Two canopies, Two altimeters + AAD Reserve ripcord + RSL + AAD Considering how bad a horseshoe mal can be, why is two closing loops not a common practice. Pro: -Reduce posibility of horseshoe. -Extend service life of closing loop (instead of replacing when worn, just wait for it to break?) Con: -2-5 seconds extra packing time.Blue skies, Keith Medlock Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tsalnukt 1 #2 August 10, 2010 Waiting for things to break before fixing/replacing things is just bad. Why not take care of your gear like a responsible skydiver. Then you don't have to worry about horseshoes, premature deployments, and other ugly things that can almost totally be prevented. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #3 August 10, 2010 Do double loops hinder the ability of the loops to slide through the grommets to release the container flaps? I recall in the days when we used 550 cord for loops, and you had to be careful to remove the seven inner strands from the core, as otherwise they could bunch up inside the remaining sheath and make a lump that would lock your container shut. So, in this case I wonder about two loops entangling with each other and making a lump that would create a pack closure total malfunction. I think double loops is completely unnecessary, if you just maintain your single loop well enough. And if that loop is getting worn, rather than add another loop, just replace the one that's worn. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverkeith 1 #4 August 10, 2010 QuoteDoes double loops hinder the ability of the loops to slide through the grommets to release the container flaps? I recall in the days when we used 550 cord for loops, and you had to be careful to remove the seven inner strands from the core, as otherwise they could bunch up inside the remaining sheath and make a lump that would lock your container shut. So, in this case I wonder about two loops entangling with each other and making a lump that would create a pack closure total malfunction. I think double loops is completely unnecessary, if you just maintain your single loop well enough. And if that loop is getting worn, rather than add another loop, just replace the one that's worn. Yep, I thought it was a bit extreme as well, but just wanted some others' input in case there was some great advantage I couldn't think of.Blue skies, Keith Medlock Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dunesurfer 0 #5 August 10, 2010 Closing loops are cheap and plentiful, and should be inspected on EVERY pack job for chafe and proper closing tension. I don't see the value in doubling them and possibly adding risk of a container lock. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
upndownshop 0 #6 August 10, 2010 I believe many speed skydivers use two loops, Amazon could confirm I am sure. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
D22369 0 #7 August 10, 2010 I haven't ever seen a dual loop setup, would never use one myself as closing loops are easy to make and replace, easy to examine and determine whether to replace them, and a closing loop in good condition isn't going to break - they last for a long time - if you run into someone who wears them out fast and needs two then you have found someone who needs to learn to pack. RoyThey say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #8 August 10, 2010 QuoteI believe many speed skydivers use two loops, Amazon could confirm I am sure. Are you talking about the dual loop setup, with dual "pin" made of yellow teflon cutaway cable? I saw more of those in Europe a few years ago, but havent seen any lately...Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
upndownshop 0 #9 August 10, 2010 Actually I was not, but am familiar with them, would imagine being Speed Skydiving is more popular in Europe the teflon system would be useful? If I remember right Amazon's Infinity has two standard closing loops and is single pin. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Master_Yoda 0 #10 August 10, 2010 QuoteI recall in the days when we used 550 cord for loops... What are folks using these days? I used to keep a bunch of 550 in my gearbag for pull-ups and closing loops. All gutted of course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #11 August 10, 2010 QuoteI spoke with someone yesterday who mentioned they use 2 closing loops on their main. He knots both of them together and they both thread through the same washer. Then he simply puts the closing pin through both loops. It seems excessive but got me thinking. Many jumpers use redundant safeties. Two canopies, Two altimeters + AAD Reserve ripcord + RSL + AAD Considering how bad a horseshoe mal can be, why is two closing loops not a common practice. Pro: -Reduce posibility of horseshoe. -Extend service life of closing loop (instead of replacing when worn, just wait for it to break?) Con: -2-5 seconds extra packing time. I test my loops on every closing with a power tool. That is the way I break them. I would not use more than one there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BrianM 1 #12 August 10, 2010 QuoteI test my loops on every closing with a power tool. That is the way I break them. If a closing loop breaks while closing, it should have been replaced a long time ago!"It's amazing what you can learn while you're not talking." - Skydivesg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,523 #13 August 10, 2010 Quote Quote I recall in the days when we used 550 cord for loops... What are folks using these days? I used to keep a bunch of 550 in my gearbag for pull-ups and closing loops. All gutted of course. I use "Type IIA" in mine and in several others. Type IIA is gutted 550 cord"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BrianM 1 #14 August 10, 2010 Quote Type IIA is gutted 550 cord Type IIA is gutted Type II. 550 cord is Type III."It's amazing what you can learn while you're not talking." - Skydivesg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RIGGER160 0 #15 August 11, 2010 Does anybody want to guess what type IIIa is?... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #16 August 11, 2010 QuoteI believe many speed skydivers use two loops, Amazon could confirm I am sure. Yup.. I use a double... and I swap them out pretty frequently too. On my Infinity I try to make both of them as close to the same length as I possibly can and I make sure they make for a VERY tight pack job. Going 300 MPH plus at the bottom of a speed dive, I want to make sure my container is going to stay closed since a premature deployment at those speeds would probably be fatal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Canadianfella 0 #17 August 11, 2010 I learned of this technique a few years ago from a guy who used to be a test jumper for PD... I have used 2 closing loops on my main before and currently only have one because someone else broke theirs and needed an extra... I'd say that's another pro... you don't NEED two, but it never hurts to have an extra one! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Master_Yoda 0 #18 August 11, 2010 Quote Going 300 MPH plus at the bottom of a speed dive... Damn! I can remember standing on my head in a "no lift dive". I don't think I was going that fast tho! I used to do it for style jumps to pick up a lot of speed fast. Gene Paul Thacker stopped the video on me once thinking I wasn't gonna turn a set. But I did then pulled and was at 2 or so I thought. He was like... "I don't think so, bud. I think you were lower than that." Well, I ain't gonna argue with that man. No friggin' way! lol At least he didn't ground me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWPoul 1 #19 August 11, 2010 QuoteYup.. I use a double... and I swap them out pretty frequently too. On my Infinity I try to make both of them as close to the same length as I possibly can and I make sure they make for a VERY tight pack job. Going 300 MPH plus at the bottom of a speed dive, I want to make sure my container is going to stay closed since a premature deployment at those speeds would probably be fatal.What about reserve closing loop?Why drink and drive, if you can smoke and fly? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #20 August 11, 2010 QuoteQuoteYup.. I use a double... and I swap them out pretty frequently too. On my Infinity I try to make both of them as close to the same length as I possibly can and I make sure they make for a VERY tight pack job. Going 300 MPH plus at the bottom of a speed dive, I want to make sure my container is going to stay closed since a premature deployment at those speeds would probably be fatal.What about reserve closing loop? ...................................................................... Parachutes de France has been using double reserve closing loops, with their LOR type of RSL. They use Spectra cord slightly lighter than Cypres cord. The LOR system has two RSLs, with curved pins on the bottom end, similar to Sigma and most Vector RSLs. Each curved pin goes through a separate reserve closing loop. Both reserve closing loops are threaded through a Cypres cutter. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #21 August 11, 2010 Double main closing loops have been standard on Strong Tandems for the last decade ... or so. They are made of 1500 pound Spectra suspension line. The first loop only holds main bottom and top flaps closed, while the second loop holds all four flaps closed. By the time a Strong Tandem is closed, there is considerably more friction on the second loop, which makes it easy to predict that it will fail first. Strong made this change after too many tandem main containers opened prematurely. Remember that tandem main closing loops started with 300 pound "gutted" nylon suspension line. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jbag 0 #22 August 11, 2010 i like to use 3IHYD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Arvoitus 1 #23 August 11, 2010 Quote Considering how bad a horseshoe mal can be, why is two closing loops not a common practice. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axCeYlY_6ioYour rights end where my feelings begin. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #24 August 11, 2010 QuoteQuoteI test my loops on every closing with a power tool. That is the way I break them. If a closing loop breaks while closing, it should have been replaced a long time ago! Well, tell me where and what from can it get a stronger pull, than closing with a power tool? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #25 August 11, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteI test my loops on every closing with a power tool. That is the way I break them. If a closing loop breaks while closing, it should have been replaced a long time ago! Well, tell me where and what from can it get a stronger pull, than closing with a power tool? I think the point would be that whatever force is needed to get the closing loop out far enough so that the pin can be inserted, a large fraction of that force is still present after you are done. This of course would depend on how much extra you pull the closing loop past the min required point needed to get the pin in the loop.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
