smiles 0 #1 March 25, 2004 Singer, songwriter, filmmaker and rock 'n' roll veteran Neil Young wants to talk about vegetable oil. -- he's just launched a month-long concert tour to complement the theatrical release of 'Greendale,' his first film in 22 years. But for anyone familiar with the project's storyline, which tackles such weighty subjects as religious warfare, corporate duplicity, the erosion of privacy and the destruction of natural resources, it will come as no surprise that its creator is eager to discuss not merely the tour itself but the tour's means of transportation. 'I have 17 diesel vehicles, and they're all running on vegetable oil farmed by American farmers,' Young said SMiles Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juanesky 0 #2 March 25, 2004 So does this mean he is cooking instead of driving?"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #3 March 25, 2004 Well now.. I guess CORN is good for SOMETHING... BURN it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smiles 0 #4 March 25, 2004 ya- rock on Neil Young is out to shave the planet SMiles Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflygoddess 0 #5 March 25, 2004 actually this summer we are going to be buying a diesel truck just to do this...you know that there is a guy that makes $100 to pick up fast food's left over oil and fuels his car... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nathaniel 0 #6 March 25, 2004 maybe in a few years all our jump planes will run on soybeans nathaniel edit: ahh, reprinting permitted: Soya-powered planes IT MIGHT make airports smell like a Thai restaurant, but a group of American biochemists think soya oil is just the thing to give aviation fuel a greener future. They say that an aircraft fuel based on soya oil and traditional jet fuel will slash consumption of fossil fuel, and help slow the rise in greenhouse gas levels by using carbon from renewable sources. They will tell a meeting of the American Chemical Society in Anaheim, California, next week how it can be done. Commercial jets run on a petroleum fuel called Jet A. Like all fossil fuels, it releases carbon dioxide into the atmosphere when burnt. Biofuels like soya oil, on the other hand, are "carbon neutral" because the carbon they release came from the atmosphere only recently. Meanwhile air traffic is a growing contributor to global warming. In 2002 the UK's Royal Commission on Environmental Pollution predicted that air travel could account for nearly 75 per cent of the UK's greenhouse gas emissions by 2050. "If further research fails to dispel current concerns, then, at some stage, commercial aviation is going to need a completely different fuel," says David Wardle, a fuels expert at the University of Auckland in New Zealand. And, he says, biofuel blends could be one answer. So far, attempts to create a suitable fuel from blends of jet fuel and vegetable oils have been unsuccessful. One stumbling block is the requirement that aviation fuel stays liquid down to -40 degrees C. Vegetable oils generally freeze at around 0 degrees C. But now biochemist Bernard Tao of Purdue University in Lafayette, Indiana, and his graduate student Shailendra Bist have developed a blend that freezes at -40 degrees C. They convert fatty acids within the oil into volatile, combustible esters, some of which freeze at higher temperatures and some at lower temperatures. "Remove the components that freeze at higher temperatures, and you will be left with something that will freeze at low temperatures," says Bist. It's here that they have made the breakthrough. The standard method of removing unwanted esters involves chilling the biofuel and removing any crystallised solids. Repeat this at ever lower temperatures and you create a fuel with a very low freezing point. But the process can take days, and is wasteful because desirable esters "co-crystallise" out with the unwanted ones. Yields can be as low as 25 per cent. Tao's team has developed a similar fractionation technology that takes less than an hour and has yields as high as 80 per cent. They are unwilling to discuss details pending a patent filing, but say they can now make a 40 per cent blend of biofuel and 60 per cent Jet A with the right freezing properties. It is the highest percentage ever reported, says Wardle. The fuel is now being tested on a turbo-prop engine to assess its emissions. ### New Scientist issue: 27th March 2004 Written by ANIL ANANTHASWAMYMy advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #7 March 25, 2004 For your reading pleasure... http://www.veggievan.org http://www.biodiesel.org Biodiesel rules. Great alternative. I was reading somewhere about agricultural based industrial lubricants a bit ago...forget where... Anyway, the above two sites are pretty cool. Vinny the AnvilVinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpinfarmer 0 #8 March 25, 2004 Go bio-diesel and ethanol! The more you use the more my corn and soybeans are worth, result, more money for me to jump. Bio-diesel is actualy a better fuel than regular diesel. It has more power and better lubricating properties and burns much cleaner. I could go on and on about all the benifits of renewable energy but I don't want to bore anyone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mcrocker 0 #9 March 25, 2004 Quotemaybe in a few years all our jump planes will run on soybeans SNNNNIIIFFFFFFFFFFFFFF MMMMMMmmm I love the smell of tofu in the morning... Nope, it just doesn't have the same ring to it... I'll be fine with soy powered airplanes so long as we still get to dump JetA on the bonfires! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlindBrick 0 #10 March 25, 2004 The only problems with biodiesel are that energy-wise it is inferior to most hydrocarbon fuels and any signifcant use of biodiesel would require a significant portion of croplands to be divereted to biodiesel production. Thus you either have expensive, and inferior, biodiesel and food prices at what they are now or you can have cheaper, but still inferior, bioddiesel and much more expensive food prices. Being a democracy the US is ruled by the concept of enlightened self interest, ie we are not going to implement anything that significantly lowers our standard of living. So until our supplies of hydrocarbons drop much lower, this and several other technologies will remain on the fringe. -Blind"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #11 March 25, 2004 Depends on what it's made from...farm subsidies are HUGE my man...take a look... Vinny Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,118 #12 March 25, 2004 >The only problems with biodiesel are that energy-wise it is inferior >to most hydrocarbon fuels . . . I don't think anyone cares about the absolute energy content of a fuel. High octane fuel has less caloric energy than lower octane fuel, but people are still willing to pay more for it. The end result is a slight reduction in mileage (on the order of 10%.) >and any signifcant use of biodiesel would require a significant portion > of croplands to be divereted to biodiesel production. Of course. >Thus you either have expensive, and inferior, biodiesel and food > prices at what they are now or you can have cheaper, but still > inferior, bioddiesel and much more expensive food prices. Why would food get more expensive? We aren't short of farmers. We are currently paying farmers to not grow corn; we could stop paying them _and_ get fuel crops. >Being a democracy the US is ruled by the concept of enlightened self > interest, ie we are not going to implement anything that significantly > lowers our standard of living. Of course we do. Taxes significantly lower people's income, and goes towards paying for things that benefit us all (like roads, military, environmental protection, the CDC etc.) We do this because we like the benefits of paying taxes, like national defense. So are the benefits of alternative fuels (no dependence on the middle east, reduced pollution, fewer wars etc) worth the additional cost? They are certainly worth _some_ additional cost; how much is the question. >So until our supplies of hydrocarbons drop much lower, this and > several other technologies will remain on the fringe. Gas should hit $2.50 this summer in CA, and will keep rising as the cheap oil runs out. Pure biodiesel is $3, and that's without economies of scale. Pure economics will drive adoption of new fuels as oil becomes scarce. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpinfarmer 0 #13 March 25, 2004 Bio diesel actualy gives off more btu's per gallon than regular diesel. it also solves the low sulfer emisions rule without any modifications to curant engines. As for production. If there is a market then production of crops will increase. The only reason we don't grow more now is because there is little incentive at the prices we have had for the last few years. Also the byprobucts of bio-diesel and ethanol production are used as livestock feed. They realy don't use much of the supply, they just increase the value of it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firstime 0 #14 March 25, 2004 interesting, what if you mix it 50/50 with regular diesel Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpinfarmer 0 #15 March 25, 2004 The subsities are now tied mostly to the prices of certian commodities. So if you increase the price of the commodity then there is no subsity payment. This year there will be very small farm payments because of the highest corn soybean and wheat prices in almost 10 years. This is partialy caused by the fact that ethanol production used over 10% of last years record 10.4 billion bushel corn crop. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpinfarmer 0 #16 March 25, 2004 The subsities are no longer tied to production. No one is paid to not grow a crop anymore unless it's on land that should have never been worked. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,118 #17 March 25, 2004 >interesting, what if you mix it 50/50 with regular diesel . . You get a fuel called B50. It's very clean but has some problems below -20F; it thickens a bit and needs fuel additives to keep it usable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpinfarmer 0 #18 March 25, 2004 Most bio-diesel sold in the US is a 2% blend of soybean oil and diesel fuel. A 50/50 mix would burn cleaner and have lower emisions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
