Man Jailed for Killing Robber

[lawrocket 3]

You know, the description of the law would fit in the circumstance of diminished capacity. It said the robber was found away and in an alley. If he was temporarily crazy and followed the robber, then would that work under your law? For example, if one or more fo the wounds was inflicted off the property?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Kennedy 0]

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I know we don't have all the details of the case, so it's hard to say, but what would be the outcome in an American court of law for this case?

Depends on where you are. In Kings County NY or Wilmette, IL, or...well most anywhere in NY, CA, or IL you'd be going to jail. In some other states you'd be given a medal. It varies on location.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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I know we don't have all the details of the case, so it's hard to say, but what would be the outcome in an American court of law for this case?

It's OK for cops to kill unarmed civilians, at least in New York City.

Google on Amadou Diallo, Ousmane Zongo, and Alberta Spruill for some recent examples.

Diallo, who was unarmed and had committed no crime, was shot 41 times by NYPD cops in 1999.

Actually, the cops fired 41 times. They hit him only 19 times. That's what I recall. And all because they thought he had a gun, which turned out to be his WALLET. I don't recall if they were ever convicted of anything, or lost their jobs or whatever. What usually happens is the DA doesn't charge them because he and the police brass get behind the cops involved using the "police have to make snap judgments with their lives at stake" excuse. To a degree that's true, but it should never be used to excuse gross negligence or incompetence, or trigger-happiness.

It's funny, WE the PEOPLE are required to STOP SHOOTING when the threat is neutralized -- i.e. if they can show that the last 13 rounds of the 15-round-magazine you emptied at a guy were superfluous, you will be convicted of murder/manslaughter/take your pick, even if those first two rounds were justified lethal force. But COPS... NOOOO, COPS never seem to catch any shit for emptying their mags into a guy and asking questions later.
Sickening.
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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[Kennedy 0]

Cry me a river.

It'd be nice if you mentioned that one died of a heart complications (attack or failure, I don't know) during a police raid concerning drugs.

Or that one had a run in with a plain clothes officer outside a wharehouse involved in criminal activites, ran from the cops, and pulled a gun.

And you left out Abner Louima.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[b1jercat 0]

Here in Portland 2 cops shot a retarded woman 22 times when she didn't drop her plastic squirt gun.
The local uproar called for the cops to be charged with abuse of a corps.
In another incident 2 cops take down a guy at a convenience market and the guy is choked to death.
So their buddys in the locker room come out selling T-shirts with the slogan Smoke -em Don't Choke-em
on the front and the mayor of Portland about had a cow.
The cops are a riot around here.

blues

Jerry

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Here in Portland 2 cops shot a retarded woman 22 times when she didn't drop her plastic squirt gun.
The local uproar called for the cops to be charged with abuse of a corps.
In another incident 2 cops take down a guy at a convenience market and the guy is choked to death.
So their buddys in the locker room come out selling T-shirts with the slogan Smoke -em Don't Choke-em
on the front and the mayor of Portland about had a cow.
The cops are a riot around here.

blues

Jerry

Sounds like they got a squad full of cops so immature and disrespectful of the public and their duty that they need to be fired immediately.
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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[FrogNog 1]

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NOOOO, COPS never seem to catch any shit for emptying their mags into a guy and asking questions later.
Sickening.

Take heart - at least we get to use standard trigger weights; cops in some municipalities (especially NY, I believe) have to use those super-stiff springs to prevent "accidental firings". Good luck putting the bullet where you want it with a 20-pound pull.

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[kallend 2,114]

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Cry me a river.

Sure it doesn't matter to conservatives because Diallo was black.

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It'd be nice if you mentioned that one died of a heart complications (attack or failure, I don't know) during a police raid concerning drugs.

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Yes, and the cops were raiding the wrong house! She's still dead on account of their mistake.

Or that one had a run in with a plain clothes officer outside a wharehouse involved in criminal activites, ran from the cops, and pulled a gun.

And you left out Abner Louima.

They fired 41 times at Diallo who was unarmed and had committed no crime, and all the cops got was a slap on the wrist. You think cops killing an unarmed man is inconsequential, but get all upset because a guy who killed an intruder gets sent to jail. Double standard.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Kennedy 0]

Anyone going for a black shiny thing when talking to cops risks getting shot. On of the men I respect most had this same scenario play out on a traffic stop in NJ. He shot the guy (who was white) because he pulled his wallet and the comb in his back pocket came with it. THe officer had to explain this to the guy's parents and live with shooting an innocent man.

lesson learned: don't reach for things quickly around nervous cops. (consider all cops nervous unless you know them) A good idea is saying "wallet, wallet, wallet," as you very slowly pull it out.

I'm not saying it doesn't matter. It always matters when someone is hurt over a misunderstanding. But the fact is it happens, and it happens to all races. If it happens more to one race, well that may have to do with the fact that that one race commits statistically and numerically more crime - leading to more possibilities for misunderstandings.


I am so tired of this "they fired 41 times" bullshit. There were four cops. Each had 17 cartridges in the magazine and one in the chamber. The fact is they were probably scared out of their minds and reacting because they hit him less than 50%.

Also, Diallo closely resembled an armed felon (rapist?) they were looking for (the sketch did look like him), and when stopped went for his wallet quickly. Would you expect to go home after pulling a black shiny thing on four cops?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[Kennedy 0]

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You think cops killing an unarmed man is inconsequential, but get all upset because a guy who killed an intruder gets sent to jail. Double standard.

If I were the callous ass you portray with that statement, it wouldn't be a double standard.

My ideas, not the ones you claims I have, are that anyone acting in self defense is justified. If they were wrong, they have to live with that. A cop killed the wrong guy, he has to live with that. A homeowner killed a guy, he has to live with that. Both reacted to a perceived threat.

I don't think anyone getting killed is inconsequential, however I do realize that cops have to react in self defense. Have you ever tried a "Shoot-No-Shoot" simulator? It's funny when people bitching about police brutality try one. They tend to kill everyone, while cops are 95% right on average.

Remember, cops don't have your luxury of avoiding scasry places and scary times and scary people. Their job requires they go in and find all three on a regular basis.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[JohnRich 4]

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If he was temporarily crazy and followed the robber, then would that work under your law? For example, if one or more fo the wounds was inflicted off the property?

That's what I'm wondering about this case - if the sword-weilding homeowner chased the robbers, and stabbed one of them after he tried to escape. That would justify manslaughter. I searched several British newspapers and was unable to find any further details on this incident. So I'm just speculating. I would like to think that if he stabbed the robber in his own home, then he shouldn't go to prison for defending himself. But there's also the case of Tony Martin, which says that sometimes such verdicts happen anyway, even when you defend yourself in your own home.

I suppose it would be better if, when robbers appear at your door, that you let them have everything they want, and then invite them to sit down and have some tea and crumpets with you. That might make you safe from prosecution for having the bad luck to be a victim.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Got a little comprehension problem there bud?

Funny, two different people in two different threads said that to the same person. You'd think that person would start to comprehend

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[juanesky 0]

Where is skyrad in all of this?

Just wondering

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[SkyDekker 1,465]

There really is too little information in that article to make any kind of informed decision on the incident. At first glance it looks like a complete backwards assinine conviction.

But then, there are multiple plausible scenarios where the conviction makes perfect sense.

[gremlin 0]

do we have anymore information on why this bloke was only charged with manslaughter? Is there something which we have missed so far?

I'm drunk, you're drunk, lets go back to mine....

[Snowflake 0]

Instead of beating around the bush, why don't you just come right out and say it. White is right

[PhillyKev 0]

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Instead of beating around the bush, why don't you just come right out and say it. White is right

Funny, I saw a black cop today. I didn't know cop=white.

[Kennedy 0]

Kev, did I not make it clear in my post that the person shot was white? As in not black, asian, or any other minority. You understood that, right?

I don't know why some people insist on seeing what they want to see instead of what is actually there. I guess when a person is racist, he must assume every other human is equally racist.

I don't suppose it would even phase his locked in views, but another cop I know and respect, and would call a friend if we were close enough to hang out more, is black. I guess everyone not "fighting the power" must be whitey or an uncle tom. Some people.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Andrewwhyte 1]

Whenever a cop kills someone we have to take a very close look at the circumstances. This is the burden that comes with being the 'armed ones' on our streets. Every time a cop kills someone who didn't deserve it, it's a very bad thing. It is also bad, and much more common, for a cop who didn't deserve it to get killed.
The overwhelming number of 'death by cop' incidents that have happened that I look into the details (which is a lot of them), I usually conclude that the cop was right.

[lawrocket 3]

I was in court a couple of weeks ago in Fresno. Some dude walked through the metal detector with 4 batteries. The cops asked him, "What are you doing with the batteries." Dude said, "I heard you." He did nothing but put him wallet in his pocket. He was about 10 feet from the cop.

Cops said, "sir, come over here please." Dude said, "I heard" and started fumbling around his pockets.

Cops said, "Sir, step this way now." Dude says, "I said I heard you." Fumbles around pockets some more and I move behind a wall. Cops grab him and he tells the cops, "Don't fucking touch me. I said I heard you." "Get your hands off of me!" This continued.

Cop didn't shoot him. Another cop showed up with weapon drawn as cop 1 got dude's hands out of his pockets.

Who knows what the hell the guy had in his pockets? The guy was doing what he could to get a police bruatlity suit or worse. Good thing the cops showed restraint there.

Point is, I often see arrests that are similar. A simple question and request based on reasonable articulable suspicion and a dude acts weird, not responsive to commands, and adds adrenaline to a situation.

I doubt they found anything bad on that guy. But I sure as hell was getting behind a wall because I was thinking, "Something bad's gonna happen."

Cops are human, too. And they'll go for self-preservation. The Dialo case was a tough one. But, once a shot gets fired, it's open up until the threat is neutralized. I doubt any of those cops reloaded.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Kennedy 0]

Yep, they deal with tripped out fucked up people on a regualr basis. Every cop I know works with one overriding rule: Everybody goes home tonight (or to jail)

If at all possible, everybody wants to wake up tomorrow morning, and they do everything they can to make that happen. But when somebody starts freaking out and draws something black and/or shiny, you have to assume it's a gun/knife/weapon. What can you do but act to defend yourself?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*