PhillyKev 0 #26 March 26, 2004 QuoteSadly true. Rocket has it - a crime is a crime because of the action. That's not true at all. Difference between grades of murder? The motive and intention. Difference between misdemeanor theft and felony robbery? Conspiracy. Tons of examples of crimes that are graded based on factors besides the action which took place. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #27 March 26, 2004 I agree with grading crimes. I was being brief and you jumped right on it. Thanks In my perfect world, the punishment should be scaled on the risk of the person doing the crime again, not on PC issues, though. (Although, if a person is dead it doesn't matter much if the killer was outraged over society's unfairness or just a bad person, they are still dead. But the justification might matter as an indicator if they'd do it again.) But we do both anyway, right or wrong. PC based laws are just purchasing votes from special interest groups. Do we have any unique (and substantive)laws that are PC based that aren't already covered without the bias? Justice is about removing a potential threat. Punishment, closure, rehab, etc is all too late - it's about the potential next crime, not the one they already got away with. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #28 March 26, 2004 So if I steal 10 million dollars and then retire to a tropical island, I shouldn't be punished since I won't need to steal again? You're right, justice is about removing potential threats. But part of that is the deterrent to others from knowing what the consequences of their actions may be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #29 March 26, 2004 QuoteThe problem with claw hammers is they are created for only one thing - to kill There is still the recreational hunting use. However, I believe that we should give bears a firearm of some type. This would make it more challenging. I support the right to arm bears. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #30 March 26, 2004 Now you are just being confrontational. stop it. get the money back to the owners and then the thief is punished - the whole context is about how they are treated in a court of law - doesn't that mean they got caught already for the first crime? And you think if the thief stole 10mil from two teenage lesbians then they should be punished more than if it were stole from a heterosexual couple? (just kidding, see I can be unnecessarily confrontational too) deterence comes in a weak 2nd the other excuses are just social experimentation - that's all I mean political joke/escalation ("So if I steal 10 million dollars and then retire to a tropical island, I shouldn't be punished since I won't need to steal again?" - sounds like a democratic platform plank if I heard one ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #31 March 26, 2004 Not sure if they should be termed graded crimes or simply just different crimes. A crime has two elements - actus reus (act) and mens rea (intent). If you change either elemet you get a different crime. I guess this is the justification behind having seperate race hate crimes - you're not just intending to harm someone, you intend to harm them beacuse they are X. Different mens rea, different crime. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #32 March 26, 2004 QuoteNow you are just being confrontational. stop it. Me??? Never...I'm shocked!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #33 March 26, 2004 I am a white, male heterosexual. I have the comfort of knowing that killing me is not a "hate crime". It's nice to know that people who would kill me, still basically like me. Murder shouldn't be about violence or anger. Unfortunately, it is a blow to discover that my life is worth less valuable than others and would be treated as a run-of-the-mill murder and not an important "special" one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #34 March 26, 2004 Actually, that's not true. If a black man killed you because he hated whites, he would be charged with a hate crime. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #35 March 26, 2004 QuoteActually, that's not true. If a black man killed you because he hated whites, he would be charged with a hate crime. That's cute, I'll have to remember that one. Ever sat through a Sexual Harrassment Awareness seminar? Know who the target audience is? There's a lot of rules like that. Sure, they apply to everyone, but do they get applied to everyone? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #36 March 26, 2004 QuoteQuoteActually, that's not true. If a black man killed you because he hated whites, he would be charged with a hate crime. That's cute, I'll have to remember that one. Ever sat through a Sexual Harrassment Awareness seminar? Know who the target audience is? There's a lot of rules like that. Sure, they apply to everyone, but do they get applied to everyone? Shocking FBI study: Blacks are more likely to be arrested for hate crimes http://www.lp.org/press/archive.php?function=view&record=184 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #37 March 26, 2004 QuoteOur magazine is Nail Gun Quarterly. We're advocating the need for nail guns when hanging picutres. Those are just dangerous assault-hammers. No one has a legitimate need for those high-capacity rapid-fire nail-drivers. They should be banned! Yeah, it will inconvenience professional carpenters, but that's a small price to pay to make society safe from these hammers of mass destruction. Seriously, for a moment. Isn't it interesting how everyone makes fun of these kinds of strategies, recognizing the silliness of it all, when it comes to hammer murders. Yet, a great many people don't have the same recognition about the futility of such measures when it comes to guns... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #38 March 26, 2004 but, but, 99.99% of hammers ar never used in a crime. I need my hammer to fix my house. It's just a tool. Why do you want to take away my hammer? witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #39 March 26, 2004 QuoteShocking FBI study: Blacks are more likely to be arrested for hate crimes... Interesting article. My favorite quote: "Murder is murder and assault is assault - regardless of whether the criminal was motivated by racist hate, generic hate, or pure greed, lust, or envy. People should be prosecuted for their actions, not for their opinions." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #40 March 26, 2004 Quotebut, but, 99.99% of hammers ar never used in a crime. I need my hammer to fix my house. It's just a tool. Why do you want to take away my hammer? We're not going to take away your right to own a hammer. However, we are going to insist that you register your hammer, store it securely under lock and key, and take a one-day hammer-safety course. A small fee of $50 will be charged to cover the cost of this valuable program. And you will have to be recertified every four years. These inconveniences are a small price to pay to keep our children safe from hammer misuse. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #41 March 26, 2004 I read the source report. The FBI statistics definitely reflect two things. It categorizes crimes that are reported (not necessarily anyone charged) and crimes where someone is charged. The same report states that no hate crimes happened in certain categories, I doubt that is true. Just under-reported or uncharged. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #42 March 26, 2004 are you going to make me pay an extra $25 for every hammer beyond the first? Am I going to loose my hammer if some drunk pushes me in the street? if a psycho ex gf (ala phillykev) files a perjured restraining order?witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #43 March 26, 2004 Quoteare you going to make me pay an extra $25 for every hammer beyond the first? Am I going to loose my hammer if some drunk pushes me in the street? if a psycho ex gf (ala phillykev) files a perjured restraining order? We'll be nice, and only charge $10 for additional hammers beyond the first one. And, yes, hammers will have to be confiscated in cases of domestic violence. Sorry. Thank you for pointing out this improvement to the Hammer Child Safety Act of 2004. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #44 March 26, 2004 In the news: Man 'stabbed to death' with breadknife "A MAN stabbed his mate to death with a breadknife after an alcohol-and drug-fuelled row..." Full Story Darn, first our hammers, and now our bread knives are going to have to go. Pretty soon we'll be reduced to cavemen once again, with nothing but rocks and sticks... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goose491 0 #45 March 26, 2004 If you outlaw claw-hammers, then only outlaws will have claw-hammers. My Karma ran over my Dogma!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
