High Electric Bill = Drug User?

[JohnRich 4]

In the news:

"When police noticed Dina Dagy's family was spending $250 to $300 a month on electricity, they suspected a marijuana farm was flourishing under high-intensity lights inside their suburban home.

"What they found when they showed up with a drug-sniffing dog and a search warrant was a wife and mother who does several loads of laundry a day, keeps a dishwashing machine going, has three electricity-guzzling computers and three kids who can't remember to turn the lights out when they leave a room.

"'It's hard to believe a high utility bill would be enough to issue a state warrant,' said Dagy, who is demanding the Police Department issue a written apology.

"Authorities say they have already apologized verbally several times and were only following proper procedures. Tracking down marijuana growers by reviewing electricity bills, they say, is a common practice."

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[CrazyIvan 0]

Dude...it was in CALIFORNIA, that's justified

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Blue Skies and May the Force be with you.

[turtlespeed 226]

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Dude...it was in CALIFORNIA, that's justified

Yeah - I see it that way too - now if it was in texas - -

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[JohnMitchell 16]

Good thing they didn't SWAT their way in and accidentally shoot a few people. More than an annoyance, a drug raid can be very dangerous to the recepients. More than one innocent person has lost their lives in these things.

[gmanpilot 0]

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Tracking down marijuana growers by reviewing electricity bills, they say, is a common practice."

That's bullshit. It has been known to be one of several elements in determining probable cause, but a high electric bill does not establish probable cause in and of itself.

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-There's always free cheese in a mouse trap.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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Tracking down marijuana growers by reviewing electricity bills, they say, is a common practice."

That's bullshit. It has been known to be one of several elements in determining probable cause, but a high electric bill does not establish probable cause in and of itself.

A huge spike in electrical use has been seen and used to track drug users. However I recently had someone tell me is that you should just add a new lamp to your house on a weekly basis and leave it on 24/7.

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you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[JohnRich 4]

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Tracking down marijuana growers by reviewing electricity bills, they say, is a common practice."

That's bullshit. It has been known to be one of several elements in determining probable cause, but a high electric bill does not establish probable cause in and of itself.

They also took a drug-sniffing dog by the house, which they claim "alerted" in the neighborhood. That's all they needed to get a warrant to search.

Maybe the dog was just smelling aunt Mary's chocolate chip cookies across the street...

[CrazyThomas 0]

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Tracking down marijuana growers by reviewing electricity bills, they say, is a common practice."

That's bullshit. It has been known to be one of several elements in determining probable cause, but a high electric bill does not establish probable cause in and of itself.

Let's talk about the patriot act then. [sarcasm] Really, if she had nothing to hide, then why would she mind a search?[/sarcasm]
It's keeps us all safer that the police are spending our tax dollars doing this. I'd hate for them to be catching drunk drivers, robbers, and killers instead.

Privacy infringement at it's finest. It used to be the 4th amendment, but don't forget 9/11. We should all be so terrified of the terrorists that we allow ourselves to be searched at will, whenever the cops have nothing better to do.
Shit, me writing this response could be justified as "probable cause" under the Patriot Act.
Fuck the patriot act. Fuck it right in the ass.

Japanese enternment camps ring a bell? It may be years ago, but when this attitude prevails, innocent civilians get punished and treated unjustly.



Thomas

[Guest]

That sounds pretty clueless. I'm sure the indoor farmers keep the lights on 24/7; it would be easy to tell the difference between intermittent peak loads, and continuous peak loads...

...dipshits.

mh

.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[lawrocket 3]

Interesting? I can see this headline in the papers:

"Police were embarrased to find that billvon was merely charging an electrical vehicle. Police said that they grew suspicious when they noticed a drop in the amount of energy he was selling to the power companies.

"'I have a solar power generator. I actually produce more than I use and can sell it. Unfortunately, I got a new experimnetal electrical car, so I was unable to sell as much power.'

"Police added, 'We typically see increased power usage, or decreased power sellag [sic] when engineer types use lights to grow marijuana. Here, there was a power spike in the negative. A drug sniffing dog in the area started barking.'

"It's ridiculous when you can draw suspicion by merely selling less power" billvon was quoted as saying.

"A group of ladies and gentlemen in ties and pant suits were circling the area. One confirmed that an attorney in the area had smelled money, and others descended on the area..."

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[gmanpilot 0]

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They also took a drug-sniffing dog by the house, which they claim "alerted" in the neighborhood.

This is what gives cops bad reputations. Here's how it should have worked:

-subpoena the shipping records of a European company that sells marijuana seeds, then you have list #1 of names and addresses.

-subpoena the shipping records of a company that sells hydroponic gear and large grow lights, and advertises in High Times....list #2 of names and addresses.

-subpoena the shipping records of a companny that sells bat shit (fertilizer), and advertises in High Times.....list #3.

-"oh look, John Doe is on all three lists"

-subpoena power records for John Doe's residence.

-"oh look, John Doe's power bills went from $100 to $800 per month shortly after he took delivery of previously mentioned items".

- do some thermal imaging of John Doe's residence from the street...."oh look, it's the middle of the night, and his house is glowing, yet he has fifteen air conditioners in the windows."

-John Doe is unemployed, pays no taxes, and lives like a king.

-Obtain and execute search warrant......."oh look, John Doe has 350 marijuana plants growing in nis house." That's how you spell probable cause.

_________________________________________
-There's always free cheese in a mouse trap.

[skymama 37]

If you're not doing anything wrong, then what's the big deal? I'd say, "sure, you can do a search. While you're at it, could you scare my kids enough to turn off the lights when they leave a room?".

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[Andrewwhyte 1]

Well I for one am in favour of whatever it takes to get those dope growing bastards down there out of business. If they keep growing dope who the hell are all our BC BUD farmers going to export their product to? If they can't sell it in the US they will end up despoiling our youth right here at home or worse, going out of business. Damn yankees already don't want are lumber.

[lawrocket 3]

So, on what basis do you subpoena the business records fromt eh companies? Is there an active prosecution at that time?

Or, how do you go about the subpoenas and complying with the procedural mechanisms of consumer notice under the California Code?

Seems to me that probable cause should be started somewhere else. The night vision is a good way of doing it, but there are intricacies to that, as well.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[gmanpilot 0]

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Damn yankees already don't want are lumber.

Grow blueberries, they're awesome.

_________________________________________
-There's always free cheese in a mouse trap.

[gmanpilot 0]

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So, on what basis do you subpoena the business records fromt eh companies? Is there an active prosecution at that time?

Or, how do you go about the subpoenas and complying with the procedural mechanisms of consumer notice under the California Code?

Seems to me that probable cause should be started somewhere else. The night vision is a good way of doing it, but there are intricacies to that, as well.

PC has to start somewhere, and is measured as the sum total of it's parts.

_________________________________________
-There's always free cheese in a mouse trap.

[JohnRich 4]

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Privacy infringement at it's finest. It used to be the 4th amendment, but don't forget 9/11. We should all be so terrified of the terrorists that we allow ourselves to be searched at will, whenever the cops have nothing better to do.

You ought to also take a look at the thread titled "Strip Search, or X-Ray?"

[lawrocket 3]

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So, on what basis do you subpoena the business records fromt eh companies? Is there an active prosecution at that time?

Or, how do you go about the subpoenas and complying with the procedural mechanisms of consumer notice under the California Code?

Seems to me that probable cause should be started somewhere else. The night vision is a good way of doing it, but there are intricacies to that, as well.

PC has to start somewhere, and is measured as the sum total of it's parts.

That's right. But, the problem with your statement is that by gettign the documents, it may be a warrantless search. To get those documents you must have probable cause to get them. Or, they must be relevant in some other action.

A cop or a DA gets "High Times" and decides to subpoena all the business records froma business? That's a warrantless search, isn't it? The same as sending a group of cops in.

On top of that, it is a search of records of all the customers. The customer must get notice of it and have the opportunity to object.

Your system seems to me to violate the 4th Amendment as well as anything else. It's an "unreasonable search and seizure."

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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Grow blueberries, they're awesome.

Can you sell blueberries for $300/oz? Shit I'll get a government grant.

[gmanpilot 0]

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So, on what basis do you subpoena the business records fromt eh companies? Is there an active prosecution at that time?

Or, how do you go about the subpoenas and complying with the procedural mechanisms of consumer notice under the California Code?

Seems to me that probable cause should be started somewhere else. The night vision is a good way of doing it, but there are intricacies to that, as well.

PC has to start somewhere, and is measured as the sum total of it's parts.

That's right. But, the problem with your statement is that by gettign the documents, it may be a warrantless search. To get those documents you must have probable cause to get them. Or, they must be relevant in some other action.

A cop or a DA gets "High Times" and decides to subpoena all the business records froma business? That's a warrantless search, isn't it? The same as sending a group of cops in.

On top of that, it is a search of records of all the customers. The customer must get notice of it and have the opportunity to object.

Your system seems to me to violate the 4th Amendment as well as anything else. It's an "unreasonable search and seizure."

Um, you are incorrect. This exact scenario has passed muster countless times. In short:

-no pc required for the records, it is an administrative subpoena.
-there is no requirement to notify the customer, as there is no expectation of privacy.
-"It's an "unreasonable search and seizure." "..... Nope, it's not. A federal Magistrate would not sign it if it were. Good pc does not rely on any single element, it's a reasonable/cumulative thing.

_________________________________________
-There's always free cheese in a mouse trap.

[SniperCJ 0]

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do some thermal imaging of John Doe's residence from the street

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Sorry, cant thermal image anymore w/o a search warrant. Was ruled a "search".

But the rest of it was on the money. High electricity bill in and of itself is never probably cause.

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[gmanpilot 0]

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Sorry, cant thermal image anymore w/o a search warrant. Was ruled a "search".

No shit? No FLIR?

_________________________________________
-There's always free cheese in a mouse trap.

[Gawain 0]

Carlsbad is quite an affluent community in San Diego County for crying out loud. The Police could've done a bit more homework, like looking through the garbage. A bit short-sighted.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Amazon 7]

I really wish the RIGHT WING would decide if they want a Police State or not and just get the hell on with it.

Most of this crap has been put in place by conservative politicians.. are you really surprised when the police actually use the powers they have been gioven under the Patriot Act et al.

F#$$@ bunch of hypocrites

[lawrocket 3]

You may be right. PC is a combination fo things. And, the laws may differ in other jurisdictions.

Constitutionally, (let's call it the "gmanpilot Doctrine") a state may give more protections than the feds, but no less.

While my expertise is civil matters, follow this link and read CCP section 1985.3 about notice to consumers whenever consumer records are sought.
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=60942227931+0+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve

At least civilly, if I subpoena records, everyone whose records are implicated should be served with a copy of the subpoena so that person can quash it.

Legally, I have a hard time believing that a subpoena for records can be issued to try to find something wrong.

Then again, I see all kinds of abrogations of rights being held up time and again...

My wife is hotter than your wife.