Through a Rapist's Eyes

[RkyMtnHigh 0]

Same here Rosa..I was raped when I first moved to Colorado when I was an innocent, young 18 yrs old. It was a guy I actually looked up to who was a manager of a TV store down the street from where I lived. He was the son of a man who I worked for at a printing company; part time job while I went to college. I was adequately prepared by my mom to look out for certain things, but the one thing she didn't tell me to beware of was a man who I trusted, who was friendly and familiar. I thought that it was only strangers who would hurt you that way, but not someone I actually knew and trusted. I was even in Tai Kwan Do classes at the time and the only help it provided me was to take my high heels and eventually beat his "mmm-hmm" into hamburger so I could escape. I finally found my car keys which he'd hidden as he chased me to my car.
It's tough to really prepare a young girl what to expect and know what to look for and how to protect herself...except to be on guard at all times and keep your mind working at all times about what her options and escape plan is.

_________________________________________

[VanillaSkyGirl 6]

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Same here Rosa..I was raped when I first moved to Colorado when I was an innocent, young 18 yrs old. It was a guy I actually looked up to

How horrible for you. I'm so sorry, my friend. ((((((((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))))))) That is so upsetting to read. It's true what they say about attackers being someone that we know, although for me, my attackers have been strangers.

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It's tough to really prepare a young girl what to expect and know what to look for and how to protect herself...except to be on guard at all times and keep your mind working at all times about what her options and escape plan is.

I agree. It's sad that we must be on alert all the time. The strangest part is that growing up, my mother was always paranoid about me being hurt in this way. I wonder if somehow this had the opposite effect than she wanted. I ended up getting hurt, instead. I remember, my mother never even let me sleep over at friends' homes if she thought that the brothers or other males who may be there were even the slightest bit suspicious. She was so protective of me when I was younger. I hated being sheltered, but I understood her reasons.

Now, as an adult woman, I am pretty private and usually quite protective of myself. For example, if go away to a boogie...I don't drink at all, unless I know that I am with good friends whom I can trust. I do occasionally have one drink per night at Perris or sometimes have jello shots at Elsinore during parties, but then I wait until I am sober and drive to a nearby hotel or (when at Elsinore) stay in the bunkhouse. Also, I only stay in the bunkhouse if I am alone in the room or if I can share the room with my close friend (Skyyhi and once Michele).

When at home, I never get in an elevator with a man alone. I never go to my apartment or towards my apt. door if a male neighbor approaches me. I never walk around the apt. complex garage (we have six garage levels and the apt. complex is a huge skyrise with 4 towers...the garage can be quite dark) without constantly looking around to see who else is nearby.

I refuse to be at my apartment alone when maintenance people come over. I make sure that they make appointments with me and explain things on the phone before coming over. I do not open the door to let them in when they want to come in because I have arranged for them to come over when I am not at home or when someone else is there with me. I feel like I am paranoid, but I am a single woman living alone. I have to be careful. Sometimes, though, no matter what you do, things happen.

Edited: I hope that this post was not a downer...sorry. Kaylne, thank you for being brave enough to post your experience. My heart breaks knowing that you were hurt in this way. ((((((((((((((((((MORE HUGS))))))))))))))

[Paige 0]

Just because snoops says one thing doesn't make it less valuable of a tool for preventing things like this from happenin in the future.

Knowledge is power

Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate
www.TunnelPinkMafia.com

[Paige 0]

Glad it helped someone who wasn't a female to prove my point. If we aren't looking out for eachother than that's just sad

Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate
www.TunnelPinkMafia.com

[Paige 0]

I think they are trying to invalidate the information though. Does snoopes make it any less valuable if awareness is raised and something is learned or even prevented?

Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate
www.TunnelPinkMafia.com

[Paige 0]

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Hoax? Could be. Still interesting information, and one that I will consider if ever in that situation.

Lee West, not Jim

Thank you Lee for getting the general and overall intention of the post. The more you know the more powerful you are!

Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate
www.TunnelPinkMafia.com

[Vallerina 2]

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I think they are trying to invalidate the information though. Does snoopes make it any less valuable if awareness is raised and something is learned or even prevented?

Basically, false information about rape is dangerous. Women shouldn't have the idea that how they look has anything to do with rape (long hair, clothes, age, etc.). Everyone is already aware that rape exists. I'm not sure what you were trying to make them aware of. I tried to make people aware that it is grossly unreported (and other surprising facts that most don't know.)

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[Vallerina 2]

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Knowledge is power

Knowledge is only power when it is correct. "Knowledge" can be destructive when it's wrong. Take the good points from that email (stay aware of your surroundings), but please realize that most of it just isn't right.

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[ACMESkydiver 0]

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My suggestion......find a Krav Maga class.
...
No macho sparrin matches or katas or anything like that. Just good old fashioned, street brawling, self defense.

That's what I want to find out about...

~Jaye
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.

[Paige 0]

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Knowledge is power

Knowledge is only power when it is correct. "Knowledge" can be destructive when it's wrong. Take the good points from that email (stay aware of your surroundings), but please realize that most of it just isn't right.

I was hoping people were smart enough to do that for themselves. Guess I won't assume that next time.

I posted this so people would have things to think about, analyze for themselves, and come to their own conclusions. Never did I say this is what you should do or think about when being raped. Nothing like rape is predictable to only have one solution. The more things you know to help you along the way and to avoid things the better.

Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate
www.TunnelPinkMafia.com

[Douva 0]

I don't know if anyone has pointed this out or not, but this list is bogus.

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/rape.htm

Origins: This bit of codswallop began its Internet life in January 2000 as an enthusiastic e-mail penned by an employee at the St. Louis office of the public relations firm Weber Shandwick. The writer was among a group enrolled in a self-defense class taught by David Portnoy, an instructor who claims to have trained with actors Steven Seagal and Jean-Claude Van Damme.

Portnoy refuses to give information about what he teaches in his classes or details of where he gained the information he passes along, preferring instead to sell it. (He demanded a $1,000 interview fee from a Denver Post reporter). If, however, this Weber Shandwick employee's e-mail describing what he teaches is accurate, Portnoy should be characterized as a fear merchant vending false information to those anxious to feel safe.

If rapists choose their victims based on hairstyle and length of tresses, it's news to those in law enforcement; they've never noticed this trend. Rape victims have short hair, long hair, and no hair. They're also young and old, short and tall, fat and skinny, femininely dressed or looking like they just fell off the tractor, and all points in between.

Likewise, the claim that rapists go after women wearing overalls because "the straps can be easily cut" is pure hogwash, as anyone who has ever tried to cut up an old pair can attest. Overalls are made of some of the most resilient fabrics known to mankind (denim and canvas, usually), and cutting these straps is made almost impossible because the fabric is doubled over and seamed at that point in the garment. If there's a pair of scissors that can snip through this, I've yet to wield them.

Rape is also not always about getting sex quickly. Often it's an act of rage or punishment directed at a vulnerable person for perceived injustices done to the attacker by others. Getting a woman out of her clothes quickly isn't a factor in these rapes; terrorizing her and inflicting bodily harm is.

If we take points one and two together, we're to believe rapists arm themselves with scissors for cutting overall straps (instead of just easing them off the shoulders or — heaven forbid! — undoing the fasteners) yet fail to think to equip themselves with rolls of duct tape to keep their victims subdued, preferring instead to grab hold of their hair and hang on.

According to Denver Police Sgt. John Burbach, most rapes occur in the evening hours and into early morning, ending before dawn, not "between 5 and 8:30 a.m." as claimed in the e-mail. Statistics from the U.S. Department of Justice fully support him in this claim: The DOJ says "Approximately two-thirds of rapes/sexual assaults occurred at night — 6 p.m. to 6 a.m."

As for the tidbit "The number one place women are abducted from/attacked at is grocery store parking lots. Number two is office parking lots/garages. Number three is public restrooms," Kathie Kramer, public relations coordinator at the Denver Rape Assistance and Awareness Program (RAAP) says, "Statistics in studies I've found don't support this idea about grocery stores or parking lots being especially unsafe." Location is important in a violent sexual assault, but there's nothing inherently dangerous about parking lots or public restrooms; what matters is their isolation. Areas heavily frequented by foot traffic are far less likely to be chosen by a rapist. Likewise, badly-lit, less-frequented places will be favored for this type of attack.

The e-mail claims that only 2% of rapists (one out of every fifty) carries a weapon. That figure is seriously out of whack: 1995 U.S. Department of Justice statistics show that weapons were used in 30% of all rapes, meaning the chances that your rapist will be armed is just a little less than one in three. Battling an armed attacker while unarmed yourself is rarely a wise course of action to take, and misstatements such as the 2% figure could well incite an attacked woman to thrust herself into that dynamic because she figures her chances are far better than they actually are.

"If you put up any kind of a fight at all, they get discouraged because it only takes a minute or two for them to realize that going after you isn't worth it because it will be time-consuming." That's great advice, provided you get the right rapist. And you've no way of knowing until it's too late.

As comforting as it might be to believe there's only one sort of baddie out there and if you understand his mind you can stay safe, that just isn't the case. There is no one set of right answers, and e-mails of this ilk potentially put us at even greater risk by suggesting that there is.

Around 1980, Nicholas Groth, director of Forensic Mental Health Associates, established a typology of rapists. Groth arrived at his conclusions by distilling his observations of more than 3,000 sex offenders over the course of 25 years of practice. (Most of his patients, Groth points out, were not sexually deprived at the time they committed rape, thereby exploding that most common of rape myths: that men rape because they're unable to get sex any other way.)

In a general sense, rapists fall into three motivational types: anger, power, and sadism. In anger assaults, the rapist is getting even for "some wrong he feels has been done to him, by life, by his victim at the time. He's in a frame of rage and attacks someone sexually." The anger rape is usually unpremeditated and impulsive, but the impulse drives the rapist into excessive force: the victim is punched, choked, and kicked into submission. Most such offenders derive little pleasure from the act, says Groth, but "they want to degrade their victims, and sex is something bad, dirty, the worst thing you could do to someone. That reflects a lot of our values in society."

An anger rapist could be discouraged by a potential victim who yells at him or puts up a physical struggle, thanks to the unpremeditated nature of the attack. Because the aggressor may not yet have fully decided to pursue this course of action, resistance may well change his mind. Here, even a half-hearted attempt might prove to be all it takes to end the assault. On the other hand, the rage the attacker is feeling might well be further fed by active resistance — this could be taken as yet another instance of one more person trying to deny him something he wants.

Power rape, according to Groth, is a form of compensation, committed usually by men who feel unsure of their competence. Rape gives them a sense of mastery and control. Power rapists usually hunt for victims or seize opportunities that present themselves unbidden. A power rapist is unlikely to be discouraged by resistance because his whole self image is wrapped up in his attempt to prove mastery. A woman who chooses to fight one of these had better do a darned good job of it, because she could well end up fighting for her life.

Groth defines his third type, sadistic rape, as eroticized aggression perpetrated by those whom the very act of forcible sex excites in ways that consensual sex can't. "If the anger components of aggression are eroticized," he explains, "then you see sadistic acts, such as deliberate sexual torture, using an instrument to rape the victim." A sadistic rapist is interested in inflicting pain and lasting harm. Any countering aggression on the part of the victim could well add to the attacker's enjoyment of the experience, prompting him to further acts of depravity in an effort to provoke further resistance.

The question of to fight back or not is an age-old one, and there's no one right answer. Granted, one particular rapist might be sent running bloody-nosed by a swift right hook, but try that on another one and a horrific experience could be transformed into a fatal one. Resistance advice of the type being circulated in the e-mail in question creates the false impression that escaping unscathed from the clutches of a rapist is only a matter of knowing which self-defence tricks to employ. Reality, however, is far different. Not all rapists can be overcome.

Does this then mean self-defence classes are a waste of time? Hardly. But they're also not the surefire protection they're too often touted to be, any more than a can of mace confers upon its wielder guaranteed safe passage through whatever mean streets and dark alleys lie in her path. Also, physical skills are only as good as recent training — someone who hasn't practiced a move in the three months since she took a course is only a tadge better prepared to fend off an attacker than someone who never had any training at all. Worst of all, such training can lead those who have aced their courses to develop a dangerous complacency about their own safety, inducing them into a state of overconfidence wherein awareness of their surroundings becomes a lost art, buried under the certainty that now bad things can't happen to them.

Complacency kills.

As always, the best defence to an attempted rape is not to be there when it happens — either avoid potentially dangerous situations (none of this "Oh, it's only a few blocks; I'll just walk" at 3 a.m.) or run like hell if you find yourself in one. Escaping your attacker is a far wiser course of action to strive for than attempting to do battle with him. Forget about his needing a good beating followed by a lengthy jail term; your first priority has to be your own safety. Leave the Wonder Woman stuff for Linda Carter and make like a track star vying for a gold medal in the 100m.

The e-mail did contain one bit of valuable advice: Stay aware of your surroundings. Not only is it important to see trouble coming before it gets to you and avoid it, but an alert stance can help discourage a would-be attacker. Those looking to prey upon others — whether their aim is robbery, rape, or mayhem — generally choose as victims those who appear preoccupied or tentative in preference to those who exude a sense of purpose. Or, as I was told long ago, "Always look like you know exactly where you're going and move like you're expected to be there at exactly a certain time." Mooning about aimlessly can make you a statistic.

So, to sum up, is avoiding a rape a matter of wearing your hair short and eschewing overalls? Hardly. And anyone who attempts to characterize it as such ought to be whomped over someone's knee.

Barbara "big heap; big wampum" Mikkelson

Last updated: 7 March 2001


The URL for this page is http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/rape.htm
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I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[Douva 0]

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My suggestion......find a Krav Maga class. I only took a few classes, want to take it again, but it's really really good for women. It's the Israeli military martial arts/hand to hand combat. What's unique about it is it's built around your natural reactions. Instead of memorizing moves like other martial arts, it takes your natural reflexes and builds on them.

For instance, someone puts you in a choke hold from behind, your natural reaction is to reach up and grab their arm with your hands. You probably won't be able to do much that way. But Krav Maga trains you to follow up that motion with an elbow to their solar plexus, or keep reaching further and gouge their eyes. There's no sparring in Krav Maga because every move is designed to disable or mortally wound your attacker as quickly as possible. No macho sparrin matches or katas or anything like that. Just good old fashioned, street brawling, self defense.

I wanted to get back into martial arts last year and was researching which style I wanted to study. The informality and straightforward, no-nonsense, practical approach of Krav Maga appealed to me, so I looked into it a little deeper. I ended up not taking it for several reasons.

1. All of the Krav Maga schools in Austin require a one year commitment and charge $80/month plus a $200 enrollment fee. This struck me as both extremely expensive and a little fishy. I talked to some other martial arts instructors online (nobody who was trying to get me to come to their school), and they agreed that I shouldn't trust anyone who wants me to sign a long term contract. It usually indicates that contracts are the only way they can keep students.

2. There is no sparring Krav Maga. All of that rhetoric about "every move being designed to inflict maximum damage" aside, most experts agree that it's really hard to master a fighting style if you can't practice it at full speed, with real opponents. One of the Krav Maga schools I looked into did mention that they had informal full-contact mixed martial arts sparring on Friday evenings (not really part of the formal training, just an after hours thing for whoever is interested), which sounded like a good alternative to in-class sparring, so if you do join a Krav Maga class, you might want to find one that has a similar setup.

3. A lot of people told me that Krav Maga is basically Brazilian Jujitsu light. I also heard some negative comments from experienced martial artists about some of Krav Maga's weapons disarm techniques. I had a lot of people tell me that I would probably be better off in a solid mixed martial arts (MMA) class.

If you're really curious about Krav Maga, they have a short video series that will give you a good idea of the basic style. I got a copy off of eBay pretty cheap.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[Michele 1]

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That's what I want to find out about...

Look into grappling classes, or judo, jiu jitsu. Anything that uses restraint breaks and hold breaks as part of their teaching.

I am a black belt in TKD, and unfortunately found that it does, in fact, work, and work well. There was an attempted "mugging", and he realized (too late) that this chubby chick floored him nicely. LOL. He was rather embarrassed, as well as somewhat hurting for a while. The cops who responded were very complimentary to me, as well.

Look, it's about awareness, protection, and appropriate measures, but not about paranoia. It's about being comfortable that you can handle yourself, and knowing that you will deal with whatever comes. Like in skydiving, there are certain risks we face. But also like in skydiving, we can learn how to prevent, or, if shit happens anyway, we can deal with it. And it's also knowing that we can do everything right, and still get into a life-threatening situation.

I'm a single woman, living alone, with work hours that can keep me out very late or bring me out very early. I don't worry about it, because I have a knowledge base to draw on...and I also know whatever will be, will be...after I've fought like a frenetic banshee.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[Vallerina 2]

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I was hoping people were smart enough to do that for themselves. Guess I won't assume that next time.

Huh? If you figure that people should be smart enough to filter out what is untrue about posts, don't post it in the first place.

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Never did I say this is what you should do or think about when being raped.

No, but what you posted did say that.

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[Paige 0]

I think you are misconstruing my objective.

Point and case:

You say the info about the hair is bogus. It may be, but I never thought about a man grabing long hair to lure me into a situation like that. I know I'm not the only one who hadn't though of that or other things in the post. Just giving people stuff to think about. The whole idea was to give people something to think about and analyze.

I don't think any of us are qualified experts on this subject. If someone were, they would state that in the post so people would know that what they said could be taken as a final word on the subject. I think people know and assume that when they are taking advice esp. from the talk back/bonfire forum, they should take it with a grain of salt and come to conclusions for themselves.

Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate
www.TunnelPinkMafia.com

[Paige 0]

Whether its bogus or not, it gets people thinking and in turn prepares them for things they may have not thought of. I posted this so people would think about all the possibilites and ways to get out of bad situations before it happens to them.

Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate
www.TunnelPinkMafia.com

[Vallerina 2]

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but I never thought about a man grabing long hair to lure me into a situation like that.

Okay....but that's where it gets dangerous...to start thinking like that. The chance of your hair being the deciding factor of whether or not you get raped is extremely small. Concentrating on such small factors like that means that the big picture is overlooked.

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The whole idea was to give people to think about and analyze.

Okay, I'll try to restate my point. If you are going to post information for people to think about and analyze, make sure it is correct, especially if it's something as serious as rape. Nobody should feel any more secure if they wear baggy t-shirt or shave their head bald. The fact is is that they are not safer because of it. Posting that the number one things rapists look for is hairstyle based on some "study" suggests that you will be significantly safer if you change your hair.

Pretty much, I have no clue what you want people to get out of this. People already know rape exists. People were given false information on what rapists look for. They became "aware" of things that may make them more susceptible to rape...but those things aren't true...so, they may have a false sense of security instead.

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[Paige 0]

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Okay....but that's where it gets dangerous...to start thinking like that. The chance of your hair being the deciding factor of whether or not you get raped is extremely small. Concentrating on such small factors like that means that the big picture is overlooked.

Again, the more you know, the more you think about, the better protected you are. How is thinking of that as a possibility a bad thing? I am simply saying that it might happen or contribute.

Guess I'll consult an expert (like yourself) before discussing serious issues like this again; I'm really sorry for raising attention to this issue in a way that was deemed unsutiable.

Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate
www.TunnelPinkMafia.com

[sunshine 2]

Paige, you posted something to try and help people. You did nothing wrong. If it was found to be incorrect on snopes, so what?! You've managed to bring attention to an important subject, and now if people feel they want more information, they can research it themselves. Nothing wrong with trying to help your freinds. Don't beat yourself up over this.
Edited cause i can't spell.

___________________________________________
meow

I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug!

[Paige 0]

Thanks sunny

Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate
www.TunnelPinkMafia.com

[Vallerina 2]

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Again, the more you know, the more you think about, the better protected you are. How is thinking of that as a possibility a bad thing?

Yes, the more you know, the better protected you are. The more false information you "know," the more likely you are to have false securities etc. I just don't think you understand how the "information" you posted isn't really "information." If you wanted people to have information about it, a local rape awareness group has better credential than a chain email.

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Guess I'll consult an expert (like yourself) before discussing serious issues like this again;

I haven't been a volunteer for almost two years, so I wouldn't be a good one to consult, but I agree that if you are going to post information about rape you should consult someone before doing so (ie, a Crisis Center.)

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I'm really sorry for raising attention to this issue in a way that was deemed unsutiable.

I'm not sure if you're sarcastic or not, but if you want to bring up a serious topic just to get people to think about it, either just bring it up or make sure you have your facts straight. It can be dangerous for women to have false ideas on how to protect themselves.

And, because I'm repeating myself, that's about all for me! If you want people to be aware about something, don't post whatever you find on the internet without having something to back it up with.

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[Paige 0]

I was being serious so this argument can end.

Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate
www.TunnelPinkMafia.com

[ACMESkydiver 0]

You're awesome Paige!
And yes BY THE WAY, long hair was a factor in a serial murder/rapist here in our area; as well as a child kidnapper. Maybe it wasn't listed in someone else's 'report'...but awareness is key, no matter what we look like/have been through in the past.

Statistically accurate or not, I like your spirit of trying to keep us safe, Paige.

~Jaye
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.

[Paige 0]

I wasn't being sarcastic. I was simply trying to bring to light other means and ways that rape happens. Glad you took from it some good things. Hope others did too.

Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate
www.TunnelPinkMafia.com