sabr190 0 #51 May 12, 2004 QuoteAgain, you shouldn't have needed to, if you'd followed the "granfathering rules" when the rating was developed. Also you have the BIC, and a Strong rating. Still shouldn't need the coach rating. Good thing you're not doing tandems at a USPA DZ. You may have to fill me in on the "granfathering rules". About six months ago I contacted USPA to see what it would take to get my USPA tandem rating. I was told I would have to get a Coaches rating and then attend a USPA Tandem Instructor Course. That amounts to starting over and more $$ Here is the part that really hacks me off, they had no problem making me a S&TA. "The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few, or the one" - rehmwa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VivaHeadDown 0 #52 May 12, 2004 People did that without pay when I got in the sport...and looking back they were some pretty scary people Don't Confuse Me With My Own Words Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viking 0 #53 May 12, 2004 QuoteA coach can't pull for a student who forgets to pull. ummmm........ahem..............fuck that!! I'm not letting someone go splat when all it would take is pulling there hacky or in worst case there reserve.I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver My God has a bigger dick than your god -George Carlin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shark 0 #54 May 12, 2004 QuoteQuoteA coach can't pull for a student who forgets to pull. ummmm........ahem..............fuck that!! I'm not letting someone go splat when all it would take is pulling there hacky or in worst case there reserve. That's just it. How many work-up jumps has a coach candidate had to simulate a pull for a student? Is that coach qualified to do so safely? Many an AFF-I candidate had inadvertantly deployed an evaluator's reserve because of improperly trying to stabilize and rolling them over. There's more to just pulling a handle. By the time a student gets to Cat. G & H they should have demonstrated the skills and abilities to self jumpmaster themselves. They've also probably done so successfully during a solo before their first coach jump as well. In your hypothetical, that student should probably not have passed AFF. My point being that you could actually make the situation worse without proper training. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bch7773 0 #55 May 12, 2004 QuoteQuoteA coach can't pull for a student who forgets to pull. ummmm........ahem..............fuck that!! I'm not letting someone go splat when all it would take is pulling there hacky or in worst case there reserve. I thought that at first too, but you learn in the coach course that the coach is the students last altimeter warning... the coaches are trained to pull at a certain altitude. think about it, if you were on a dive and suddenly someone pulls, the first thing most people do is check their altimeter... the students will too. MB 3528, RB 1182 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyhi 24 #56 May 12, 2004 In one weekend, I had two different exits funneled by two different coaches and had a third coach forget the second point. I know of at least two coaches who do it just for the free jumps.Shit happens. And it usually happens because of physics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
benny 0 #57 May 12, 2004 Quote I also know I have a slower learning curve, but it's not THAT slow. Kelly Not that slow? Really? Never go to a DZ strip show. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #58 May 12, 2004 QuoteQuoteGood thing you're not doing tandems at a USPA DZ He could still do tandems at a USPA DZ, he just wouldn't be able to do any "real" instructor jumps, Cat A/Cat B tandems for the ISP. Atleast that's how it sounded to me when I read it in the books. That's how I have read it as well - and that has got to be one of the dumbest things I have ever read. Think about it - You can take someone on a skydive, place them in harms way and literally have a chance to kill them and the USPA is ok with that....but if you try to sign off a student progress card! Somehow sitting in a class for three days teaching you to become a USPA mouthpiece will make you a better instructor? Somehow those two eval jumps will qualify you to debrief a student? Whatever! I've just spent the last couple of days reading over everything I would need to do to get my TMI rating and I don't see how this Coach Course would do anything for me. The only thing I see it is good for is making my wallett a bit lighter. My DZ doesn't use the ISP or have any Coachs...we have our AFP jumpmasters that take care of the students up their license which is the way it should be (re:safest). But because we are a USPA dz and RWS requires it, I need to take this class. I will most likely not be getting my TM anytime soon due to the BS and extra cost of this course. The course is a wast of time, money and doesn't truly eval your skill or knowledge (IT IS AN OPEN BOOK TEST!!!!!). Oh, and I have been told the "secret" to passing your eval jumps - just make sure you use the creepers and the mock up...and spend a decent amount of time on them._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #59 May 12, 2004 Quotedoesn't truly eval your skill or knowledge (IT IS AN OPEN BOOK TEST!!!!!). Just because its an open book test doesn't mean its an easy rating to get. Sure, its not like trying to get an AFF rating, but until you've jumped with someone up front, you have no idea.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #60 May 12, 2004 I have a friend that told me he nearly slept thru the entire weekend and still passed. He extolled how much it wasted his time and how he felt he was just spending his money to have someone read the SIM and IRM to him. Also, he felt it really did nothing to help him work with students that he already hadn't done jumping with lowtimers._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WrongWay 0 #61 May 12, 2004 No sir, I don't like it. Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #62 May 12, 2004 Yeah, the classroom side is boring as shit, I was talking about the jumps.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vallerina 2 #63 May 12, 2004 QuoteYeah, the classroom side is boring as shit, I was talking about the jumps. Really? I know people with zero RW skills that passed the jumps.There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #64 May 12, 2004 QuoteYeah, the classroom side is boring as shit, I was talking about the jumps. You really think that two jumps teach you that much? One where you play the student and another where you are the coach? So, in essence you are doing one jump where you are graded on how well you can be a coach in the air. Uh huh, I see how that is beneficial._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #65 May 12, 2004 QuoteReally? I know people with zero RW skills that passed the jumps. He referenced not getting his TM in the post that started this (3 or so posts ago) so that's what I started talking about. Hence the comment "you don't really know until you have someone strapped to the front of you."--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #66 May 12, 2004 QuoteYou really think that two jumps teach you that much? One where you play the student and another where you are the coach? So, in essence you are doing one jump where you are graded on how well you can be a coach in the air. Uh huh, I see how that is beneficial. See my post to Vallerina. You mentioned TMing, and I thought you were saying that the TM course is a cake walk that takes absolutely not skill. Why its not a real hard rating to get...it's not real easy either.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brains 2 #67 May 12, 2004 QuoteHow is the program done out at Aggieland? QuoteHonestly, this is the most organized student program I've ever seen and the results are there. I'm not shitting you when I say our students are coming away with their A license and are flying MUCH better then I was with over 100 jumps! I have been there and personally witnessed this. I can honestly agree that those students are better skydivers at A license time than i was with over 100 jumps. Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #68 May 12, 2004 QuoteQuoteYou really think that two jumps teach you that much? One where you play the student and another where you are the coach? So, in essence you are doing one jump where you are graded on how well you can be a coach in the air. Uh huh, I see how that is beneficial. See my post to Vallerina. You mentioned TMing, and I thought you were saying that the TM course is a cake walk that takes absolutely not skill. Why its not a real hard rating to get...it's not real easy either. Sorry for the confusion - but I thought we were talking about the Coach course and rating, which for some odd reason you need to get your TM. From what I know the TM I/E puts your thru, the TM course is pretty tough. The coach is the waste of time and money. I do not see the reason for me to pay over $200 to sit in a class for three days to have someone tell me what the SIM says...and I don't have that cash to toss around just so I can enter the TM course._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IMGR2 0 #69 May 12, 2004 I would like to thank everyone here for proving that I'm not the only one that feels the coaches course is a sham. Especially you Vallerina. That was an awesome comment. You Rock!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
namdrib 0 #70 May 12, 2004 Wow, this topic has taken off, now hasn't it!!! Glad to see it. Here are a few things that I would like to point out, you guys and gals can take it for what it is worth. 1. The BIC program was introduced to "Teach people how to teach", that was basically it. There are some people that desperately needed this, but for the most part, I don't feel it to be a good course to HAVE to attend. 2. The Coach Course, as stated by the USPA, was introduced to "get people that do not qualify for the AFF Instructor Program more involved in our sport". Basically, it is something for the 100 jump wonder to do to get his jumps paid for. I agree with several people on here that 100 jumps is NOT someone that needs to be taking people up and teaching them what they are doing wrong, or being able to judge what they are doing right. And lets not forget that a Coach IS permitted to give the Ground Course for their Level 1 AFF skydive. Does everyone honestly believe that someone with 100 jumps is perfectly qualified to teach something like this. Hell, I have 1400 jumps and there are things that I forget and overlook. (*But that may be because I suck) Anyway, I am glad that all of you have given your aspect on all of this, please continue!Unknowing attempting to take out all 4 wheeled vehicles remotely close to the landing area! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #71 May 12, 2004 There is no consistancy in the coach course. Mine was more like a Mini AFF camp. Mind games on every eval jump, AFF-I going into a Max flat track with booties and expecting me to be there to eval his track. I was judged on maintaining certian proximity in all levels. No more then X feet away is AFF, not coaching. On me training them for a diving exit the director waited about 3-4 seconds before leaving and tumbling, then I had to chase him down... Anyone else have to do that? Out of the 7 or 8 people in my class only 2 or 3 got their ratings. Went to another DZ to jump and they were running a course was so easy that I could have slept through it and passed it.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vallerina 2 #72 May 12, 2004 QuoteThere is no consistancy in the coach course. Yup. I've seen smaller dzs pass everybody because they didn't have enough instructors to be able to coach all of their recent AFF grads. I've seen other people play favorites during it. My old home dz really didn't like it because they were a small dz. They weren't around long enough for it to have much of an affect, though. However, it would've stunk for them because the only people that could jumpmaster SL students is now instructors. Considering many of the jumpmasters who were grandfathered into being instructors were Purdue students, they knew they'd lose that advantage quickly. I really wanted to become a jumpmaster to help my dz out since they helped me out so much. All I really needed was the BIC, but they didn't have one in time. Having a coach rating wouldn't have helped the dz out at all. By the time someone was done with SL, they almost had their A, and most didn't go all the way through SL anyways. They needed jumpmasters....not people to jump with students after they finished up their student progression.There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #73 May 12, 2004 Quotewill lend themselves legitimacy by obtaining this simple rating. That is the problem. It is a "simple" rating to get. The requirements aren't that hard at all. I have seen one person in particular get one recently that plain and simple SUCKS in the air. They couldn't even dock on me in a two way without help. Now they are going to be a coach?Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douva 0 #74 May 12, 2004 QuoteDoes everyone honestly believe that someone with 100 jumps is perfectly qualified to teach something like this. Hell, I have 1400 jumps and there are things that I forget and overlook. Anybody, regardless of jump numbers, who teaches the first jump course without a syllabus is not teaching as efficiently as they should. A good syllabus keeps you from forgetting anything. --DouvaI don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douva 0 #75 May 12, 2004 QuoteThere is no consistancy in the coach course. Mine was more like a Mini AFF camp. Mind games on every eval jump, AFF-I going into a Max flat track with booties and expecting me to be there to eval his track. I was judged on maintaining certian proximity in all levels. No more then X feet away is AFF, not coaching. On me training them for a diving exit the director waited about 3-4 seconds before leaving and tumbling, then I had to chase him down... Anyone else have to do that? Out of the 7 or 8 people in my class only 2 or 3 got their ratings. Went to another DZ to jump and they were running a course was so easy that I could have slept through it and passed it. That's not what the coach course is supposed to be. Evaluators can still play the dumb student, but they're not supposed to set outrageous standards to pass the jumps. You shouldn't be required to stay with an expertly tracking student. The students who failed probably should have appealed the class to the USPA. --DouvaI don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
