What are your feelings for the Coach Program from USPA?

[diablopilot 2]

Absolutly.

Many of the comments sound like they are from people who feel that through age, jump numbers, or skill they should be "entitled" to a free rating.

Poppycock!

Put up or shut up I say to them.

Do I think the 100 jump requirement is too low?

Yes.

Many people don't realize just 3 years ago there was a MAJOR shotage of instructors in this country, and very few new ones were being introduced to fill the void left by people leaving the sport.

The Coach rating stirred interest in the instructional ratings. It's provided a guideline by which we teach, and rate students behavior and performance. It's never been a requirement that "coach" jumps cost anything.

People want to be "coaches" without jumping through the hoops, but they don't want to have any part in creating new skydivers.

Fine, you can have em' and screw them up after they've got their "A" if you don't like the way the game is played.

(Not diercted at you Mar.)

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[weegegirl 2]

I got my coach rating so I would become a better mentor for newer jumpers and so I could give back to our community. My dz does not pay coaches... at least they didn't last year. And those that I have coached have been friends and I have not considered charging. I don't think there is any harm to the program. Just my opinion.

[voodew1 0]

Well call him Skygod Rat---- I am one of those jumpers with 596 jumps who just got his AFF rating and can say that I earned it.
Sorry that the Rat couldn't come show all of us how to fly as he knows all.
As for the coach thing I got the rating because you must have it to get any other rating. I have never charged any new jumper for a coaching jump and I have never paid for a coaching jump. Believe it or not our DZO has on occasion bought a coaches slot so that he would go jump with a newbie.

As for IMGR2 DON'T BE SO JEALOUS.
Voodew

The pimp hand is powdered up ... say something stupid

[IMGR2 0]

I'm jealous cause I can't afford it.

Plus, don't be so paranoid to think that I was refering to you. Guilty conscience!

BTW, to pat you on the back. You are one of the ones who deserve it. I saw the videos. GOOD Job!

[AggieDave 6]

When coaches are implemented correctly, they are truely a big plus for students and student programs.

Looking at students graduating with their A license now (well at my DZ atleast, since we have the coach program inplace and running very well) and students from other DZs without the program really in place and the skill of students I saw at DZs before the ISP/coaches, it is obvious the good its doing.

Students are coming away at 25 jumps/A license lightyears ahead of what jumpers used to be at that level.

Hell, the majority of the students coming away with their A license at my DZ would put the 100-200 jump me to complete shame!


I think the biggest problem is that the ISP and coaches aren't being implemented at the majority of DZs correctly, nor with the correct oversight by AFF-Is, the S&TA and the Head Instructor.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[voodew1 0]

You do love me!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The pimp hand is powdered up ... say something stupid

[Brains 2]

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I think the biggest problem is that the ISP and coaches aren't being implemented at the majority of DZs correctly, nor with the correct oversight by AFF-Is, the S&TA and the Head Instructor.

Dave, your dz is very fortunate to have a dzo who is constantly striving to improve the quality of skydivers graduating from his program. That program he is implementing to standardize the coaching dives is the shit. I love my dz, but the structure of the coaching program just isn't there. Remember that things like this are more easily controlled on a smaller scale. Again, you are extremely lucky to be jumping with the people you have at your dz.

Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you.

[IMGR2 0]

Only on the fountain side of the swimming pool.

I doubt anyone will get that one.

[Snowflake 0]

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What are you mad about snow, you got your coach rating too.

Was thinking about how I could be an instructor right now.......BUT NOOOO!!!!! I screwed up on a coach jump just one little detail and now I have to live vicariously thru you mutts. I don't know how people can live thru a winter of not jumping every year.

[Douva 0]

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In the past I had no problems trusting and believing in my AFF or Tandem instructors. Now I see kids with 500 jumps and a bank account getting thier ratings.

Yeah, these pampered 500 jump wonders make me sick. I wouldn't trust most of them on an SCR, much less an AFF jump. If you ask me....wait a minute....uh....never mind.

--Douva
D-22772
533 jumps
AFF I (as of May 7)

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[RkyMtnHigh 0]

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Well, you just opened a big ole can of worms on this post.

I'm going to get some popcorn, sit back and watch the fireworks.

I'll join ya, Mar! Let's add some MilkDuds in the popcorn, 'kay? Mmmm...instant carmel corn. Don'tcha love online entertainment... **sigh**

_________________________________________

[flyangel2 2]

I have never tried that trick with the MilkDuds, great idea. And so very good

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[freeflygoddess 0]

Ok first of all I think the 100 jump number is way too low, but then again they are rated to coach simple belly flying only to newly off student status jumpers right? I mean I don't think a 100 jump wonder would make a good skysurfing coach or wing suit coach, or even a freefly coach. Why hasn't USPA put together a rateing system for those? After all aren't they a bit more dangerous then a two way belly? Just my 2 cents.

[AggieDave 6]

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In the past I had no problems trusting and believing in my AFF or Tandem instructors. Now I see kids with 500 jumps and a bank account getting thier ratings.

Yeah, these pampered 500 jump wonders make me sick. I wouldn't trust most of them on an SCR, much less an AFF jump. If you ask me....wait a minute....uh....never mind.

Yeah, I had to bust my ass to get my TM. My DZO and I worked out a deal, I got my ratings "on the red" and worked the cost off. Funny how quickly that large chunk of money that I was debted to disappeared when I started cranking tandems every weekend.

We all came out ahead. I got some ratings that I wanted (I love working with students), the DZ got a much needed TM and I was able to do it at a time in which there was (still is) no way in hell I could afford it.

Jesus, how many broke-ass college kids do you know that have that opportunity? I get another plus, I make enough money doing something I love that it keeps me in the air as well.

Win win.


Eitherway, I don't see how if someone had the money to go through the courses, why that would make them an untrustworthy instructor. They passed the course, they got the rating, now they have to prove themselves...just like every single other instructor in the history of skydiving.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[dbattman 0]

How is the program done out at Aggieland?

[Douva 0]

My $0.02....

The coaches course is simple enough for anybody to pass because coaches can't really do much. All they are allowed to do is jump with and give basic relative work instruction to students who have graduated AFF but not yet obtained their "A" licenses. Most of us who've been jumping more than two years were doing that without any kind of rating, under the old system. Now the USPA simply has a plan to make sure the people making these types of jumps have a basic level of proficiency and a uniform approach to dealing with students. A coach can't pull for a student who forgets to pull. A coach can't re-dock and stabilize an unstable student. All a coach can do is 2-ways with low timers. The coaches course doesn't need to be a mini-AFF course. It just needs to make sure the first jumpers a student jumps with after AFF have reasonably competent skydiving skills and won't feed the student bad information.

The AFF course does not simply issue ratings to anyone who pays the course fee--It's a tough course. Gone are the "ranger school" mind games that once turned good skydivers to mush, but the air skill standards are still there. The course has been greatly improved in the sense that the evaluators now teach before they test. The new course does substitute a pass/fail jump grading system for the old points system, but that doesn't make the jumps easier; it just simplifies the grading process and takes away the pressure of needing a "four point jump" to pass. There is still plenty of pressure. Fail your first jump, and those next three jumps are pure torture. Fail one of them, and you're going home. The changes in the course have lead to a higher pass rate, but I don't believe that means the new course is inferior. I found the course both very educational and very challenging, and I feel like I came out of it as twice the skydiver I went into it.

--Douva

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[bch7773 0]

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My $0.02....

The coaches course is simple enough for anybody to pass because coaches can't really do much. All they are allowed to do is jump with and give basic relative work instruction to students who have graduated AFF but not yet obtained their "A" licenses. Most of us who've been jumping more than two years were doing that without any kind of rating, under the old system. Now the USPA simply has a plan to make sure the people making these types of jumps have a basic level of proficiency and a uniform approach to dealing with students. A coach can't pull for a student who forgets to pull. A coach can't re-dock and stabilize an unstable student. All a coach can do is 2-ways with low timers. The coaches course doesn't need to be a mini-AFF course. It just needs to make sure the first jumpers a student jumps with after AFF have reasonably competent skydiving skills and won't feed the student bad information.

yes, exactly. I recently got my coach rating and this is exactly what it does... coachs are allowed to jump with people still on student status... they know already how to get stable, how to pull for themselves, etc. all the coach is there to do is evaluate them, and help them learn what they did good and bad on the skydive. coachs help the student improve basic skydiving skills... if by 100 jumps you can't give a good gear check and watch a student do a basic RW dive, and see what they are doing right or wrong, then you need to get back to basics.

I think the problem is that many people are confused between the USPA coach, which teaches people on student status, and a freefly or RW coach, who teaches experienced jumpers how to fly better.

and so I think 100 jumps is enough for the USPA coach rating, but i hope nobody paying for a 100 jump freefly coach.

MB 3528, RB 1182

[sabr190 0]

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So how did you feel about the BIC?

USPA wasted my f**king time, money and travel expenses. Had to travel 400 miles just to take a course on shit I already knew, then they did away with it less than a than year later!

Refering to the BIC

"The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few, or the one" - rehmwa

[diablopilot 2]

Oh yeah, whaaaa. I REALLY feel for ya.


Did you get a rating afterward?

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[sabr190 0]

Yep, but i won't put out the money to do it again, my understanding is the Coaches rating is a BIC with 2 eval jumps. They can keep it.

"The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few, or the one" - rehmwa

[diablopilot 2]

Well if you got an instructional rating after the BIC you shouldn't ever need to take the coach course.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[sabr190 0]

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Well if you got an instructional rating after the BIC you shouldn't ever need to take the coach course.

Wrong again, I got my Strong rating about a month before the USPA tandem rating came out. USPA told me I would have to take a USPA tandem course to gain that rating, told them to pound sand I am a Strong Tandem Instructor, not a USPA Tandem Instructor

"The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few, or the one" - rehmwa

[AggieDave 6]

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How is the program done out at Aggieland?

Well, students come up through the ISP, be it AFF, Tandem/AFF or IAD, then get passed on to the coaches.

The coaches have to be signed off by the head coach (who is an AFF-I and a SDU coach) to be able to jump as a coach. This helps insure that we have consistancy in ability and training throughout our coaches.

We teach using, basically, watered down SDU stuff, same things that's in the ISP that we're supposed to teach per jump, but we teach turns the same way SDU teaches turns, we use real similar training methods, albight they're usually shorter.

We have monthly instructor meetings, including the coaches, TMs, every rating holder, to keep everyone on the same page, to discuss problems being encountered and improvements that can be made.

We also have basically weekly discussions between instructors/coaches about our students. That way we're all on the same page, incase someone jumps with one of the other instructors or coaches. We also have very detailed jump logs, based around SDU principles, that we use to keep track of each student outside of their log books/Prof cards. That way when one of us gets a student we haven't been working with, we can quickly flip through that student's log and at a glance, know what we need to work on specifically to help them achieve their goals within their Cat dive.

Honestly, this is the most organized student program I've ever seen and the results are there.

I'm not shitting you when I say our students are coming away with their A license and are flying MUCH better then I was with over 100 jumps!

We also keep to what we're supposed to do. Students are students until they have an A license, that means after they've graduated AFF/whatever, they are cleared for "self surpervised freefall." That doesn't mean they're free to go do whatever, whenever with no surpervision, that means that we'll atleast have a coach on the load with them to double check gear and to double check what they're wanting to do (if they're doing a solo).

Students tend to really enjoy working with the coaches, they learn a lot of fun things, like swooping and docking, tracking, etc when working with the coaches. They all tendto have fun. We even add some stuff, sometimes if they want to. For instance, its not uncommon to see a coach taking a student up on a 4 way with other coaches, instructors or experienced jumpers to give the student a chance to try out their new skills and really see where they're going.

Something about our coach staff, though. We dont' have any "100-jump-wonder-coaches" they're either have gone through SDU and have a couple hundred jumps or are very experienced jumpers or instructors. With that said, our coaches are all "home grown" though. The DZO just goes out of his way to take someone who wants to become a coach or an instructor, take them under his wing and help them progress to a level of proficiancy that will meet the DZ's expectations of excelence.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[diablopilot 2]

Again, you shouldn't have needed to, if you'd followed the "granfathering rules" when the rating was developed. Also you have the BIC, and a Strong rating. Still shouldn't need the coach rating.

Good thing you're not doing tandems at a USPA DZ.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[AggieDave 6]

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Good thing you're not doing tandems at a USPA DZ

He could still do tandems at a USPA DZ, he just wouldn't be able to do any "real" instructor jumps, Cat A/Cat B tandems for the ISP.

Atleast that's how it sounded to me when I read it in the books.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."