Web designer guru's or anyone I need some help

[kansasskydiver 0]

I've run into a problem with a site I'm trying to design. Because of the limitations I know of html and the way they want the site designed, I'm out of ideas of how to do what they want.

Here is the example page

What they want done, lets say they have 6 products they want to show on this page, but they must all stay within the background they've provided me. To ensure that the background always stays this way it is put into a table that is centered in the screen and no matter what resolution, will never overlap of show double. They want to put the more products in a type of scroll bar, where, only in that area, would the screen scroll and keeping it within the background of white.

Problems

- the menu up top will be done in java, java doesn't load ontop of flash
- flash, that I've tried, won't let me put images into a scroll box with text
- I can't do the menu in flash because the dropdown menu's they wan will cover half the screen, resulting in half the area being used up by flash
- they don't want the whole site done in flash for load times etc
- they are using a font that is not viewable to everyone, so until they let me change the font to ariel, I have to make the text images
- I can't use frames because then the background won't work, and when you go to the menu up top it will mess up the proportions

Is there any other way I can deal with this problem other than telling them the laws of html and what they want won't allow me to do so? Has anyone seen a page that they can link me to that will allow me to atleast see an example of this? Does anyone know of ANY way this is even possible or are they S.O.L and it just has to be done differently?

Thanks in advance for all the help, please post any questions if I didn't make anything clear or pm me with ideas and help. I'm really stuck at a point I don't know what to do anymore

<--- See look, pink dolphins DO exist!

[Clownburner 0]

[scotty voice]You canno' change the laws of physics! [/scotty voice]

Some of this stuff is technically possible; I've seen scrolling text boxes in flash, but it's a PITA. But they've clearly got unrealistic expectations. Remember that how the page looks is up to the browser, and the designer just makes 'suggestions.' There's no foolproof way to do all of this at the same time, unless you make the entire site a flash monstrosity. The key point in spotting unrealistic expectations with people who want web pages is when they start insisting on non-standard fonts.

You can probably work out a compromise they'll be happy with, but you want to make sure you communicate CLEARLY and show them examples, or they'll never be happy with it..

Good luck...

7CP#1 | BTR#2 | Payaso en fuego Rodriguez
"I want hot chicks in my boobies!"- McBeth

[kansasskydiver 0]

I explained to them the issue of the fonts and hopefully they atleast let me change the product descriptions to something that looks similar and is viewable on anyone's computer without it being an image. I suggested they let me put smaller images of the products that when you click on them, it'll open up a smaller window with the full shot of the product and the product description. They have to get that approved and will get back to me after I make an example. It's been a work in progress, they don't know anything about webdesign and how it works, just have a kid in there that is good at designing layouts. Another perfect example of a site done poorly and me not voicing what should and shouldn't be done just because they were stubborn is here. There is not one single thing on this page that is plane html text...

Oh well, it was a learning process for me and my first "big" job that I was being paid for. Although it came out to around $3 an hour for the time spent and what they paid and the 4 different revisions they made, I learned a valuable lesson.

<--- See look, pink dolphins DO exist!

[mailin 0]

From the look sof the page your referencing, it should be fairly easy to do in either php, asp or javascript - with the latter being from the reference.

I don't do design (I do back end stuff) - so I pay handsomely for the front end design stuff cause its not worth the hassle.

Check out www.templatemonster.com. I find they're good for most companies.

I just finished a website for a local church who had one thing in mind. Well... their idea sucked. So I came up with another idea and they went with it (as do most of the clients I do that for).

Try that - sometimes they just don't know whats available.

Good luck,

Jen

Arianna Frances

[Malev 0]

Quote

They want to put the more products in a type of scroll bar, where, only in that area, would the screen scroll and keeping it within the background of white.

It may be possible to do this using CSS and JavaScript. Put the products into a new layer, and position this on the screen. Use the clip property to set certain parts invisible (i.e. above and below the background), and add in some images as arrows.

Write up some javascript, such that when the up/down arrow is pressed it re-positions the layer and adjusts the clipping. This will give the end user the impression that the content is scrolling.

Note - I haven't coded this up and it may not work at all, or only in certain browsers.

[AndyMan 7]

Do not use tables for positioning. Use CSS.

Avoid using Java or Flash at all costs, whenever possible. Use CSS instead.

As for the font problem, use the CSS "Font family" construct, which allows a depreciating order of fonts. Eg, "font-family: Vivaldi, Edwardian Script ITC, Blackadder ITC, Mistral;"

I think the core problem is that you're relying on tables and flash, when a good CSS layout is the better approach.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[SkyDolphin 0]

For the individual seperate scrollable area use a

They can be set to scroll without scrolling the rest of the page. like this.

your content

Rhonda

• Quote

[mailin 0]

Ya, actually thats not a bad idea.

Both IE and Netscape provide simple ways for retrrieving the browser's CSS property values.

To retrieve an element's computed width and height in IE:

objWidth = document.all.myDiv.offsetWidth;
objHeight = document.all.myDiv.offsetHeight;

(Note that in IE, 'document.all.' isn't required. Besides, why keep troubling the browser with repeatedly querying the DOM?)

And in Netscape:

objWidth = document.layers.myDiv.clip.width;
objHeight = document.layers.myDiv.clip.height;

There's other ways, the only problems using CSS for cross browser compatability is that it takes a HELL of a lot longer as far as production time. I'll probably get jumped on for this, but I'll program for IE first and after the sites release or version 1.0 release to client I"ll go back and fix it for mozilla (which can often be a pain to work with). I have yet to run across a client who uses anything other than IE.

Good luck!

Jen

Arianna Frances

[DTOXX 0]

You could use an Iframe tag to place an inline page. This inline page would use the background as a watermark (so it does not scroll) and would be sized as the same. You could scroll the Iframe give unlimited room for product expansion. (well within reason I suppose).

-------
D.T. Holder
SIMstudy

[SkyDolphin 0]

I'm just waiting for the day when we will be able to use any/all technologies on any/all browsers and not have to worry about whether it's going to work or not.

Rhonda

[mailin 0]

Quote

I'm just waiting for the day when we will be able to use any/all technologies on any/all browsers and not have to worry about whether it's going to work or not.

Don't hold yer breath

We can't get structure with programming languages and platforms let alone anything else!

But to tell you the truth, I like it that way - the constant evolution keeps you on your toes.

Jen

Arianna Frances

[indyz 1]

Quote

I'll probably get jumped on for this, but I'll program for IE first and after the sites release or version 1.0 release to client I"ll go back and fix it for mozilla (which can often be a pain to work with). I have yet to run across a client who uses anything other than IE.

I do that to, but for a different reason. Mozilla is actually mostly standards compliant, and IE, uh, isn't. It's easier to design something broken and fix it to work with Moz than it is to design something to work with Moz then intentionally break it to work with IE. I guess it's the same results, just a different set of mental gymnastics.

I am more than a little disappointed with MS. They know that IE 6 isn't standards compliant, they know how it isn't compliant, but for some reason they've decided not to do anything other than security fixes until Longhorn is out (2006!).

Quote

But to tell you the truth, I like it that way - the constant evolution keeps you on your toes.

I hate it that way. I can either design pages to conform to the standard, or design pages to work with a product that isn't compliant and doesn't give a shit, or (worst option) choose one or the other then use nasty hack on top of nasty hack to make it work for everything.

The standards are freely available to anybody with a web browser. The bugs have been reported. The only reason that IE isn't compliant is because Microsoft doesn't feel like it.

[mailin 0]

Well... to each their own. Seeing as I do all my web programming on a windows machine in Visual InterDev, I'm sure you can understand why I would program for IE first, and as such you would understand the reluctancy to program for Mozilla first.

But at the same time my second machine is Linux based - and I've participated w/ Bugzilla for a while now, I understand how they work....

but that doesn't detract from the general public. Most people are not going to put mozilla/netscape on their machine - most just fire up their dell that already has IE on it, thus good programming practice would be to cater to the lowest common denominator right?


Jen

Arianna Frances

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

but that doesn't detract from the general public. Most people are not going to put mozilla/netscape on their machine - most just fire up their dell that already has IE on it, thus good programming practice would be to cater to the lowest common denominator right?
Jen

I find it odd that people will pay actual money for popup blockers when installing mozilla fixes the problem. The only time I start up IE now is when I run into a page where the designer did what you suggest. And it reflects very badly on the company and that person.

But you're right, it's a 5% issue. I don't know enough about the funkiness of IE/IIS to know what you gain by working outside of standards.