Pompous Pilots (long)

[ramon 0]

Now I have lots of friends that are pilots and I respect them very much, but what do you do when you have a very pompous jump pilot.

this weekend we had a substitute pilot (he is rich and owns a WWII plane). Last load of the day, we are last out (freefly) I ask for a go around. he says "no get out now!", well we get out.. We are 1.5 miles away from the airport with a 3500' runway which puts us a aboout 2.2 miles form the landing area (I measured it with my car after the argument).

I jump a 95 loaded at 2.2.. we skydive and break off at 6.2k and dump immediately (under canopy at 4.7k) and make it back to the DZ.

I ask the pilot why he did that and he said "there is no reason you can't make it back from 1.5 miles". I told him we were further and he says
" the GPS said we were 1.5 miles away and I need to learn to trust my pilot, I have been skydiving a long time and you did not need a go around".

I ask him "how many jumps do you have"

he says "6000"

I told him I have less than that but I have jumped allover the country and have been taught to not rely on the GPS, I think a go around was reasonable." He told me, "well you landed be fore me didn't you, you don't know what your talking about"

Well I barely landed before him and my girlfriend did not. this guy was such an asshole and obviously was always doing RW and had no idead what it was like to be in the back of the plane.

Lots of people landed off that day including a trip to the hospital from a canopy collpase caused by rotors landing by a house.


the pilot is buddies with the "absent" DZO and flies for free periodically to stay current. I only have 1300 jumps but I don't land off because I know when I am too far and I don't want to land my 95 in a trailer park.


What would you do?

Ramon

"Revolution is an abrupt change in the form of misgovernment.", Ambrose Bierce.

[skybytch 273]

Refuse to get on any aircraft he's flying. Let the dzo know why. Encourage your friends to do the same.

[AndyMan 7]

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What would you do?

In a similar situation, I told the DZO that unless the pilot corrected his attitude, I would jump elsewhere. The pilot quickly adjusted his attitude.

Dropzones are businesses, and every business has at its core customer service. DZO's who forget this are the ones who have trouble finding cash for food.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[Brains 2]

Well, if it is the guy i am thinking about, he has flown for us in the past also. Same thing, long spots and few making it back. He jumps a four way team and is usually first out, how the hell would he know what a long spot was? We called them "Walk Factor" when we had to jump behind them.

Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you.

[IMGR2 0]

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Refuse to get on any aircraft he's flying. Let the dzo know why. Encourage your friends to do the same.

For some reason this does not work. I have tried to convince fellow skydivers that if we do something to try and change things that they will. The hard part is to convince skydivers to go somewhere else for a short term to prove a point.
It seems to me by past experience that DZO's and DZ managers can treat skydivers any way they want cause no matter how they treat them, the skydivers always return.
Like a junkie looking for thier next fix.

[FrogNog 1]

If I'm seriously scared I won't make it back (or to somewhere 99% as safe as the landing area would be), I won't get out. That would give me one more thing to talk to the DZO about - pilot made me land with the plane.

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[skybytch 273]

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It seems to me by past experience that DZO's and DZ managers can treat skydivers any way they want cause no matter how they treat them, the skydivers always return.

Then they deserve what they get. But if they aren't willing to "vote with their wallet/feet" then they have no right to bitch about how they are being treated. imho of course, and I'm not assuming or insinuating that Ramon is bitching but not willing to do anything about the situation he posted about.

Unfortunately at many dz's the loss of even a majority of their core group of experienced jumpers won't affect the dzo's bottom line - they make their money off tandems and students, not experienced skydivers - so the "we're not gonna jump here anymore" approach doesn't always have the desired effect.

[IMGR2 0]

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so the "we're not gonna jump here anymore" approach doesn't always have the desired effect.

That's precisely the point I was trying to make, thanks.

[Beerlight 0]

You should just have a (maybe you already did)serious discussion with him, one on one, not in front of anyone else. Tell him your side of the story. If he still disagrees, then have a few others talk to him in the same fashion. Still not working, then to DZO.

Is the guy not a "good" pilot? Does he operate the aircraft in an unsafe fashion or demonstrate poor piloting techniques? If the answer to those questions are YES, then it's time for DZO intervention.


Buck

[AggieDave 6]

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It seems to me by past experience that DZO's and DZ managers can treat skydivers any way they want cause no matter how they treat them, the skydivers always return

Yeah, but if its the DZ Manager/pilot that I'm thinking of, he's usually pretty good about listening to concerns and working to keep things good to go.




Ramon, did you call up ***** and talk to him about this?

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[piisfish 140]

playing the devils advocate here, although I understand fully the situation of the skydivers land quite far out, but the thngs which can be done to avoid or minimize consequences :
-make bigger groups
-ask for an earlier/shorter spot, make sure the 1st group gets in place and jumps quickly
or (difficult one usually) refuse to jump when this pilot flies.

I know safety is the 1st thing we care about cause we want to go up again, but then comes money... 2nd run = longer rotations = higher costs = higher price for jump tickets = unhappy skydivers

I am very happy to have 2nd runs when I can... I prefer that rather than landing out... Even if I am also happy to land out every once in a while...

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Lots of people landed off that day including a trip to the hospital from a canopy collpase caused by rotors landing by a house.

this unfortunately should not be a reason to land by a house... Stay away from obstacles, anywhere you might land... Hope teh person involved is doing fine now.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM