PD:s Removable slider

[maddogjason 0]

I´m interested in using Pefromance Design´s removable slider on my velocity 90. I have no intentions of using the Removable Deployment System (RDS). PD:s sliders have snaps that are supposed to connect the slider and the nose/stabilizer. Riggers tells me that to get the snaps installed I would have to send my canopy over seas. This pretty much means that I will not be using the snaps. The RDS operational instructions mention that RS/RSD can be used without the snaps, but they highly recommend them to get opening consistency. Most of my openings take place at terminal speeds. I´m not too worried about the growing risk of malfunctions as long as they can be sorted out with a cut-away. What worries me is the complete malfunction of the removable sliders cables that theoretically would cause and extremely hard opening. I´m not sure what exactly the snaps are meant to do, but I imagine they might reduce this risk? Does anyone have any experience or knowledge concerning safety issues when using a Pefromance Design´s removable slider without the snaps at terminal speeds? The warning label on the removable slider says something about injury or death…

[davelepka 4]

So let me get this straight - you are not going use the RDS, which is the bigger benefit to the canopy, but you do want to be able to remove the slider?

You realize that simply collapsing and stowing the slider takes about as long as removing it and shoving it into your jumpsuit or pocket, right? OK, maybe it's 5 seconds faster to remove it, but then you add the extra time to re-rig it for the pack job, and bigger issue, the risk of a mis-rig or slider malfunction leading to a hard opening (possibly damaging yourself or the canopy) or a malfunction (possibly damaging yourself or the canopy).

So you're ready to take the extra risk to save 5 seconds under canopy, but you're going to pass on the real benefit of removing the d-bag and PC?

[maddogjason 0]

The few seconds/minutes that I might win or lose doesn’t really bother me. Using the RDS bothers me to the extent that I don’t want to do it on a normal jump where I might be in traffic or opening low and being far away from the landing area. The only reason I’m interested in the removable slider is the benefit to get rid of the damn thing under canopy. Some people say it increases visibility and others that it increases safety because you don’t have to connect the slider with your rig. The main problem is the wings rig that I’m using. Most jumpers who stow their sliders have rubber bands or magnetic keepers. These are usually put under the reserve flap but are not tagged to the actual rig. The reserve flap on the Wings rig is too wide for the rubber band or the magnetic keepers. (As far as I know, if anyone has come up with a good solution please tell me!). I’ve tried two options: A) slider stopper on the rear risers which keeps the slider down. Did not like it, the slider was right behind my head which made it uncomfortable. B) Tagged a plastic ball with a rubber band on my rig. This works the same way as the keepers that you put under the reserve flap. The difference is that the plastic ball is tagged to your rig. If the shit hits the fan and something goes wrong you might get a malfunction that will be more difficult to deal with due to that tagged plastic ball. If the keeper is put under the reserve flap and not tagged to the rig the malfunction will most likely be easier to handle (?) So basically I ponder how much I increase the risk with the removable slider to gain its benefits compared to the increased risk of tagging a plastic ball to my rig. Stowing your slider works well but I would imagine that flying under canopy with no slider at all works even better…?

[jumpwally 0]

To me it seems like you are dicking around, wasting time pissing on your self worrying about the damn slidr,,, Put your energy in skydiving and having fun, thats what its about,, don't worry about being like the cool kids..

smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083

[AggieDave 6]

Before I went with a RDS, I had "slocks" sewn on my risers. They're slider locks and there are a number of designs. A quick search will return a couple of threads about them.

If you're really freaking out and you just have to have a RDS, even if you run it partial, know what you're getting into. If you don't want the PD design with the snaps, Scott Roberts makes an excellent RDS. I think you'll find that it looks really similar to PD's design.

http://www.peaengineering.com/RDS.htm

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[PhreeZone 20]

Another option that you can look at is having a local master rigger bar tack the Magnetic loop to the top of the yoke on the Wings. I have seen that done by a few people and it works great.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[d100965 0]

Personally I would not attach anything to my rig that would not fail if needed to. No matter how small the possibility is, it is possible that a line could catch it and wrap itself around that attachment, locking your canopy to your rig. Without a fail point that bartack will not give. A better solution is to use Velcro on the back pad part of the rig so any snags will just peel the velcro. (This has to be designed properly so that the velcro peels correctly, very easy though, PM me for the design).
I have used an RDS for many years now on different canopies and different sizes (Sabre 2's, Katanas and Velos). I use a German Design from www.Lookma.de.
I have also used a removeable slider now for over 900 jumps.
Some people say its only around 5 seconds quicker than normal stowing but that's wrong IMO. I went back to a magnetic keeper recently and the normal slider had to be 1. collapsed 2. pulled down over the riser loops and toggles, 3. Rolled up and 4. Stowed behind your head using the magnet. I found this took significantly longer than just pulling a handle and stuffing it down your shirt. At least a good 20 seconds more. Using a removeable slider means the visibility is MASSIVELY increased along with a decreased nuisance factor.
That is why I always jump with a removeable slider. All jumps, including freefall, not just hop and pops. I only use full RDS when competing. That to me is a good workable situation giving me the benefits as and when needed according to what jumping you are doing.
In 900 jumps I have not experienced any opening problems (but I am anal about equipment maintenance), however be warned that on the flip side it is valid that even after 900 RDS jumps one can still rig it up wrong and have a mal!

[tetra316 0]

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Personally I would not attach anything to my rig that would not fail if needed to. No matter how small the possibility is, it is possible that a line could catch it and wrap itself around that attachment, locking your canopy to your rig. Without a fail point that bartack will not give. A better solution is to use Velcro on the back pad part of the rig so any snags will just peel the velcro. (This has to be designed properly so that the velcro peels correctly, very easy though, PM me for the design).

You do know there was at least one fatality due to a canopy that would not release from a velcro keeper on the rig, right? Why chance it?

[AggieDave 6]

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Personally I would not attach anything to my rig that would not fail if needed to. No matter how small the possibility is, it is possible that a line could catch it and wrap itself around that attachment, locking your canopy to your rig. Without a fail point that bartack will not give. A better solution is to use Velcro on the back pad part of the rig so any snags will just peel the velcro. (This has to be designed properly so that the velcro peels correctly, very easy though, PM me for the design).

You do know there was at least one fatality due to a canopy that would not release from a velcro keeper on the rig, right? Why chance it?

There is also a fatality contributed to a RDS.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[tetra316 0]

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Personally I would not attach anything to my rig that would not fail if needed to. No matter how small the possibility is, it is possible that a line could catch it and wrap itself around that attachment, locking your canopy to your rig. Without a fail point that bartack will not give. A better solution is to use Velcro on the back pad part of the rig so any snags will just peel the velcro. (This has to be designed properly so that the velcro peels correctly, very easy though, PM me for the design).

You do know there was at least one fatality due to a canopy that would not release from a velcro keeper on the rig, right? Why chance it?

There is also a fatality contributed to a RDS.

So why chance it? Because we all choose to accept varying degrees of risk for certain rewards. I don't do either so I'm more biased to that end.

[tetra316 0]

Also wasn't the fatality on the RDS due to the guy taking too long in messing with the system along with other errors. The fatality on the velco system was due to the velco not releasing a cutaway canopy.

Please correct me if I'm wrong on the RDS. Has there been any rigging issues that directly led to the inability to cutaway resulting in a fatality?

[AggieDave 6]

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Also wasn't the fatality on the RDS due to the guy taking too long in messing with the system along with other errors. The fatality on the velco system was due to the velco not releasing a cutaway canopy.

Please correct me if I'm wrong on the RDS. Has there been any rigging issues that directly led to the inability to cutaway resulting in a fatality?

Right, our lost friend took too long trying to fight it. As for inability to cutaway, I haven't heard of one (not that there aren't other instances in which I do not know about).

Its important to remember that each complication of the system adds one more variable to work through, one more option and increases your reaction time when presented with a critical incident. Hicks law.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[apogee77 0]

+1 to Scotts RDS. I jump it terminal all the time. I heard PD's is recommended for sub-terminal only. Can anyone confirm that?

Will

[andreeb77 0]

I jump a removable slider on a (please don't laugh) Nitro 120. The extra performance it gives me (or not gives me) wasn't the reason for me to install it. It's simply very convenient to get rid of your slider after opening. I always had the problem that the slider would work its way back up from behind my head and I don't like the idea of installing anything to my reserve flap.

I have approx. 250 jumps on this configuration and haven't had any problems so far. I don't use (and don't know) the PD system. I use a slider from a German company that produces them custom made for any canopy. I think their newer sliders have the option of collapsing them which leaves you the choice if you don't want to reinstall it after landing.

And, of course, using a removable slider brings you to the cool kids' playground

[maddogjason 0]

JumpWally: Your profile picture confirms the truth. Being one of the cool kids is what skydiving is all about!

Apogee77: On PD´s RS´s warning label it says that its developed only for sub-terminal openings. If I remember correctly this is also mentioned in the manual.


I already have PD´s RS with the snaps so if I use a removable slider it will be PD`s with snaps.


Has anyone used this slider without the snaps in terminal speeds? What are the snaps supposed to do? According to the manual the slider can be used without the snaps. Has there been a serious accident with removable sliders during the opening? What would happen ( if the cable would fail and the slider would be released from one or more corners in the early stage of the opening?has it happened?)


I´m really only interested in the risks concerning the actual opening in terminal speeds (and of course how cool I will look with my removable slider...).

[ianmdrennan 2]

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Has anyone used this slider without the snaps in terminal speeds? What are the snaps supposed to do?

Yes, often. The snaps are only there to assist keeping the slider in place while packing. They are totally optional.

Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team