Deuce 1 #1 June 22, 2004 Derek, (hooknswoop) I think now, right now, that I understand why you have quit the sport. The exchanges (http://dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=1125536;page=1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;) have made the light go on. There are a lot of dropzone politics involved in who is doing what with whom. I do think that the practice is bullshit. We have lucky, favored, lowtime <400 ( I actually think I heard of a 200 something) jump wonders who are tunnel rats getting on to world record RW skydives. A specific skill does not translate into an experienced skydiver. A skydive is the whole tamale, from gear-up to packing (or paying a packer). As to the fallacy that "he would be doing it anyway", let some other dropzone allow that crap. Don't let it be yours. Don't let the opinion of a skygod about his newest sycophant change that. Dropzones let organizers jump for free so that they attract business. When everybody but the organizer sees the danger, then the dropzone management has to step up. What hurts more, losing a big-name organizer who draws people in to the sport or a fatality/crippling? I really care about the people who own and run my dropzone. But, if they allowed a 300 jump wonder to jump with lead at a 2.0 or higher wingloading on the word of any "expert" I can only hope that I would throw my locker into my pickup before I ever had to hear or see a person turn into a hot wet bag of blood and bones. No. I don't want the USPA or the FAA to step in and create regulation. Heck, if the DZM/O is the S&TA, what good would it do. Don't jump at places that allow russian roulette jumping. And if that doesn't happen, quit. One of the best skydivers I ever jumped with did exactly that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #2 June 22, 2004 I couldn't change things and couldn't live with them the way they are, so I quit. I miss skydiving, a lot. Every time I get the urge to go jump and feel the cool air flowing by as I float through the sky, I remember that I have to go to a DZ to jump, and the feeling fades away. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ACMESkydiver 0 #3 June 22, 2004 Sorry about all that...wish there was something that I could do... But maybe there is. I have just about 100 jumps, and I'll vow never to go against practicality in the sport of skydiving...my life is worth too much; I sure hope others can love themselves enough to hold the same opinion. In the end, it isn't just about one sky-jumper that does something stupid; it's about the example set, the safety record of the DZ, and the skydiver's family and friends that would suffer should he/she go in...and serious injury could be even more of a burden to family and friends than death; I know, broke my ankle (NOT skydiving, thankfully) but I had to rely heavily on family to support me as I recovered. I'm not kidding, if there was such thing as a Coalition for the Safety of New Skydivers, I'd be right there typing up the agreement that we would sign showing our commitment to our safety and the safety of those around us... Kinda sounds like an idea developing...hmm...~Jaye Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #4 June 22, 2004 Just remember, dude. For everyone who doesn't listen to good advice, there's dozens others who do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #5 June 22, 2004 QuoteJust remember, dude. For everyone who doesn't listen to good advice, there's dozens others who do. Are there really? I wonder sometimes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #6 June 22, 2004 I do know that, Kev. I like that about this sport. And for the ones that don't, somebody has to be a cop. And Skydivers simply hate that whole notion. I talked with Jack about that quite a bit this past Mem Day Boogie at Perris. When they don't listen, it's not enough to say they were warned. They have to be prevented from jumping at your dropzone. Let them go jump at the shitty "Anything-goes" dropzone near anywhere. It's not about the FAA or the USPA. It's about us. Vote with your feet. If a DZ wants me to buy a block of tickets I want to know that they aren't letting me jump with a known future critical injury. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skreamer 1 #7 June 23, 2004 QuoteEvery time I get the urge to go jump and feel the cool air flowing by as I float through the sky, I remember that I have to go to a DZ to jump, and the feeling fades away. Or you could replace that canopy you lost and get back in the air - no DZ required. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #8 June 23, 2004 Sad when that happens. Everytime I pass a '00' jump mark I realize how little I know and am AMAZED we were allowed to jump by ourselves after only 7 levels of AFF (I had to repeat a couple). I had a friend kill himself on a Stiletto he wasn't ready for yet. We've had too many people die under canopies they were far too inexperienced to use. It's past time for those with the authority to stop such nonsense to do so - at the dropzone level. USPA and/or FAA action not required. Many do a good job of this now - most I'd wager - but 100% is the stat we should be shooting for as a sport in that area. That's the opinion of a low timer like myself. I could be incorrect, but don't think so, else I wouldn't have made this post. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AirMail 0 #9 June 23, 2004 Some DZs do care. We recently had a jumper, a very good jumper, pull very low. Our club president grounded him. It wasn't so much the low pull as it was the attitude that followed. "I wasn't worried so you shouldn't be either" and then the temper tantrum after being grounded didn't help either. I think if he had agreed that he pulled low and said he would be more careful from now on, the whole thing would have ended right there. I was glad the incident happened, and I was glad that it had the outcome it did. So you see, some places really do care about safety. P--- It's never too late to have a happy childhood. Postal Rodriguez, Muff 3342 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Garycal 0 #10 June 23, 2004 I can agree with that .by the way when are you coming back to Hollister Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GravityGirl 0 #11 June 23, 2004 Hmmm. Holding back.... Same "Mom" lectures year after year. This thread was started in response to JPs thread about the 300 jump wonder that broke his back jumping a way too small, way to high performance canopy. JP (Diablo Pilot), do you remember me telling you your canopy was too small once upon a time. Then do you remember hobbling around and me making fun of you for it? JP (Deuce), do you remeber me nicknaming you Divot? Not as an insult, but as a slap in the face to hopefully wake you up to the reality of this sport. We are all really cool. Much better than the "Old Guys" that came before us..... .....that is until we get enough skydives under our belt to realize that no matter how sporty, how cocky, how durable we are.... ....we are ALL mere mortals. Made of flesh and blood. We bleed. We brake. We die. We bury our friends. We bury our lovers. We visit our sisters and brothers in the hospital. Then we go home and cry. And when we go back to the drop zone.... ... we look at that new kid.... we cringe.... But we muster up every ounce of strength to give him as much advise and shit as we can to keep him/her alive.... because in the end.... we care.... and we can't stop caring... jumping.... loving.... ....and the circle goes 'round and 'round. I'll quote Missy Nelson now, "Never give up." ... ....On anyone... Ever... We are family. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #12 June 23, 2004 Dang ... that was well said. I hope to meet you one day. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bertusgeert 1 #13 June 23, 2004 Quote We recently had a jumper, a very good jumper, pull very low. Like the one I heard from a dicksnap after a low pull. "What, man? It's only a cypres fire!" And he wasn't even grounded --------------------------------------------- As jy dom is moet jy bloei! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #14 June 23, 2004 QuoteJP (Diablo Pilot), do you remember me telling you your canopy was too small once upon a time. Then do you remember hobbling around and me making fun of you for it? Sure I do. And I thank you and everyone else who told me that and put enough fear in my head to make me be more conservitive about the progression. I would like to share tht learning with someone making an even worse choice.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GravityGirl 0 #15 June 23, 2004 I've had the same comments directed toward me. And they stuck. So it even if just one out of 100 listen, when we offer up advise, that's one more friend you get to keep. We ARE friends, right JP? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ACMESkydiver 0 #16 June 23, 2004 QuoteLike the one I heard from a dicksnap after a low pull. ?? huh? That phrase means what? I don't get it?~Jaye Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #17 June 23, 2004 QuoteWe ARE friends, right JP? Shhhhhh don't tell anyone. They might think we like each other.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GravityGirl 0 #18 June 23, 2004 QuoteQuoteWe ARE friends, right JP? Shhhhhh don't tell anyone. They might think we like each other. eeeewwww! I only like foxy Swedish Pilots. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kris 0 #19 June 23, 2004 QuoteQuoteLike the one I heard from a dicksnap after a low pull. ?? huh? That phrase means what? I don't get it? It's in the same realm as 'asshat' and 'butt cheeto'.Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #20 June 23, 2004 Every time I get the urge to go jump and feel the cool air flowing by as I float through the sky, I remember that I have to go to a DZ to jump, and the feeling fades away.Quote Actually you don't, You can organize a small load of safe and like minded soulful friends. Rent a jumpable cessna, file a NOTAM. And take your urge to some picturesque location in Colorado ( or anywhere ) Just like the roaming DZ guys, but more cozy. That will put a smile back on your kisser. I think your girlfriend will like it too..... I think about it all of the time and I don't even have a girlfriend. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites VectorBoy 0 #21 June 23, 2004 JP (Diablo Pilot), do you remember me telling you your canopy was too small once upon a time. Then do you remember hobbling around and me making fun of you for it?Quote Busted! I knew you usta be from the other side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tonyhays 86 #22 June 23, 2004 Yes, there are people who listen. I'm one of them. I purchased a V-103. After talking to someone with a lot more experience then me, it's getting shipped back. I never even took it out of the box. tnh“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ACMESkydiver 0 #23 June 23, 2004 QuoteQuoteQuoteLike the one I heard from a dicksnap after a low pull. ?? huh? That phrase means what? I don't get it? It's in the same realm as 'asshat' and 'butt cheeto'. Aye... Ok! ~Jaye Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ChasingBlueSky 0 #24 June 23, 2004 Then again, there are those of us that are making a difference...making a change by example. Yes, it is working - and I don't have to give up the sport. Can I save everyone? Nope, and I am not going to try. Can I change what the USPA says and does? Nope, nor do I care. Most of what is accepted in this sport is from popular opinion, not BSR. Let me ask you this, what do you think will work better? Sitting on here making a thousand posts telling newbies what idiots they are, quitting the sport, or working jumper by jumper on making a difference and changing attitudes? I've made my choice, I guess others will make theirs. Yes, there are people that will listen, you just need to talk to them first. I've met the idiots that just won't listen and helped get them grounded and then called several DZs warning them about the jumper. There is always an option - not all will make you popular. If being less popular means I have one less funeral to go to, I could care less who likes me. There are groups out there like Team Funnel that go out of their way to help lower jumpers be safe, and we do it with a smile on our face and have fun while we are doing it. Yes, it works and you don't need to give up the sky. Like Gravity Girl said - never give up, and I won't and neither will those around me. You can sit around and bitch, complain and point fingers and beg someone else to do something about it, but until you actually do something about it yourself, nothing will change. And guess what - it won't happen the first time you try it either. Want to make a difference? Look at the mirror and start there and it will rub off on others._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Byron03 0 #25 June 23, 2004 What ACMESkydiver said got me thinking, and what GravityGirl wrote kind of crystallized it for me. A lot of talk about this incident (and previous ones) talk about who should step up and try to prevent these things from happening. Some are of the opinion that the USPA needs to step up and create new BSRs. Some others say that the DZO or S&TA need to be more vigilant. My questions is: What can we do about this? Not 'we' as in experienced skydivers (I certainty don't qualify as one of those) but 'we' as in every single skydiver in this sport. From those who have just finished their AFF or SL progression, all the way up to those with 10s of 1000s of jumps. This is inherently a social sport. People get started in skydiving for the thrill but they fall in love with it and continue skydiving because of the people (at least that is what happened with me). If people are not worried about death or seriously injury as consequences of their decisions, can 'we' make them worried about some other consequences? I'm not sure...I don't have any answers or brilliant ideas. I just want to see if we can have a discussion on this, and see if there is anything that 'we' can do. Edit: Good post ChasingBlueSky. That is where I was trying to go with my comments. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next Page 1 of 5 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
VectorBoy 0 #21 June 23, 2004 JP (Diablo Pilot), do you remember me telling you your canopy was too small once upon a time. Then do you remember hobbling around and me making fun of you for it?Quote Busted! I knew you usta be from the other side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tonyhays 86 #22 June 23, 2004 Yes, there are people who listen. I'm one of them. I purchased a V-103. After talking to someone with a lot more experience then me, it's getting shipped back. I never even took it out of the box. tnh“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ACMESkydiver 0 #23 June 23, 2004 QuoteQuoteQuoteLike the one I heard from a dicksnap after a low pull. ?? huh? That phrase means what? I don't get it? It's in the same realm as 'asshat' and 'butt cheeto'. Aye... Ok! ~Jaye Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ChasingBlueSky 0 #24 June 23, 2004 Then again, there are those of us that are making a difference...making a change by example. Yes, it is working - and I don't have to give up the sport. Can I save everyone? Nope, and I am not going to try. Can I change what the USPA says and does? Nope, nor do I care. Most of what is accepted in this sport is from popular opinion, not BSR. Let me ask you this, what do you think will work better? Sitting on here making a thousand posts telling newbies what idiots they are, quitting the sport, or working jumper by jumper on making a difference and changing attitudes? I've made my choice, I guess others will make theirs. Yes, there are people that will listen, you just need to talk to them first. I've met the idiots that just won't listen and helped get them grounded and then called several DZs warning them about the jumper. There is always an option - not all will make you popular. If being less popular means I have one less funeral to go to, I could care less who likes me. There are groups out there like Team Funnel that go out of their way to help lower jumpers be safe, and we do it with a smile on our face and have fun while we are doing it. Yes, it works and you don't need to give up the sky. Like Gravity Girl said - never give up, and I won't and neither will those around me. You can sit around and bitch, complain and point fingers and beg someone else to do something about it, but until you actually do something about it yourself, nothing will change. And guess what - it won't happen the first time you try it either. Want to make a difference? Look at the mirror and start there and it will rub off on others._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Byron03 0 #25 June 23, 2004 What ACMESkydiver said got me thinking, and what GravityGirl wrote kind of crystallized it for me. A lot of talk about this incident (and previous ones) talk about who should step up and try to prevent these things from happening. Some are of the opinion that the USPA needs to step up and create new BSRs. Some others say that the DZO or S&TA need to be more vigilant. My questions is: What can we do about this? Not 'we' as in experienced skydivers (I certainty don't qualify as one of those) but 'we' as in every single skydiver in this sport. From those who have just finished their AFF or SL progression, all the way up to those with 10s of 1000s of jumps. This is inherently a social sport. People get started in skydiving for the thrill but they fall in love with it and continue skydiving because of the people (at least that is what happened with me). If people are not worried about death or seriously injury as consequences of their decisions, can 'we' make them worried about some other consequences? I'm not sure...I don't have any answers or brilliant ideas. I just want to see if we can have a discussion on this, and see if there is anything that 'we' can do. Edit: Good post ChasingBlueSky. That is where I was trying to go with my comments. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next Page 1 of 5 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
tonyhays 86 #22 June 23, 2004 Yes, there are people who listen. I'm one of them. I purchased a V-103. After talking to someone with a lot more experience then me, it's getting shipped back. I never even took it out of the box. tnh“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ACMESkydiver 0 #23 June 23, 2004 QuoteQuoteQuoteLike the one I heard from a dicksnap after a low pull. ?? huh? That phrase means what? I don't get it? It's in the same realm as 'asshat' and 'butt cheeto'. Aye... Ok! ~Jaye Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #24 June 23, 2004 Then again, there are those of us that are making a difference...making a change by example. Yes, it is working - and I don't have to give up the sport. Can I save everyone? Nope, and I am not going to try. Can I change what the USPA says and does? Nope, nor do I care. Most of what is accepted in this sport is from popular opinion, not BSR. Let me ask you this, what do you think will work better? Sitting on here making a thousand posts telling newbies what idiots they are, quitting the sport, or working jumper by jumper on making a difference and changing attitudes? I've made my choice, I guess others will make theirs. Yes, there are people that will listen, you just need to talk to them first. I've met the idiots that just won't listen and helped get them grounded and then called several DZs warning them about the jumper. There is always an option - not all will make you popular. If being less popular means I have one less funeral to go to, I could care less who likes me. There are groups out there like Team Funnel that go out of their way to help lower jumpers be safe, and we do it with a smile on our face and have fun while we are doing it. Yes, it works and you don't need to give up the sky. Like Gravity Girl said - never give up, and I won't and neither will those around me. You can sit around and bitch, complain and point fingers and beg someone else to do something about it, but until you actually do something about it yourself, nothing will change. And guess what - it won't happen the first time you try it either. Want to make a difference? Look at the mirror and start there and it will rub off on others._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Byron03 0 #25 June 23, 2004 What ACMESkydiver said got me thinking, and what GravityGirl wrote kind of crystallized it for me. A lot of talk about this incident (and previous ones) talk about who should step up and try to prevent these things from happening. Some are of the opinion that the USPA needs to step up and create new BSRs. Some others say that the DZO or S&TA need to be more vigilant. My questions is: What can we do about this? Not 'we' as in experienced skydivers (I certainty don't qualify as one of those) but 'we' as in every single skydiver in this sport. From those who have just finished their AFF or SL progression, all the way up to those with 10s of 1000s of jumps. This is inherently a social sport. People get started in skydiving for the thrill but they fall in love with it and continue skydiving because of the people (at least that is what happened with me). If people are not worried about death or seriously injury as consequences of their decisions, can 'we' make them worried about some other consequences? I'm not sure...I don't have any answers or brilliant ideas. I just want to see if we can have a discussion on this, and see if there is anything that 'we' can do. Edit: Good post ChasingBlueSky. That is where I was trying to go with my comments. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
