Questions about buying a certain type of rig

[littledanny50 0]

Hello, Can someone help me out with some knowledge? I am looking into purchasing a rig from someone and I need to get some general information and reviews about it and anything that I can do in order to make my decision on whether to purchase it or not.

First off I am 5'6" and weigh 145 lbs.

The rig he is selling me is:
-Javelin J1 and Safire 149 with Tempo 150 reserve.
-He said that it has less than 500 jumps and zero reserve rides.
-The canopy relined about 100 jumps ago.
-It has no AAD.
-His height and weight is 5'11" and about 170 lbs.

He said that modifications can be made to the rig just in case it fits a little bit loose but it would have to be sent to like the manufacturer or a rigger.

Can someone give me some advice on it? Thanks.

[NovaTTT 2]

Since you're asking this particular question, have just registered and have no profile information, one presumes you are a young, inexperienced jumper.

Based thereupon, given your natural weight alone, this rig is not for you.

Speak in person to your instructors or a local rigger to get gear advice.

Nova
FAA Senior Rigger

"Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73

[PhreeZone 20]

First question for you is how many jumps do you have? a Safire 1 149 is really like a Sabre2 135 in sizing and with you already weighing 145+25 for gear that is going to put the wingloading at 1.25:1. If you have 200 jumps that might be ideal, if you have 15... that's pretty aggressive and really needs to be talked over with people that jump with you and can advise you as to if that's too much canopy for now or not.

Resizing the harness can be done but it might cost 200+ or more depending on the work needing done on it. At that point it might not be a decent deal anymore.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[littledanny50 0]

20 jumps. Ok so it might not be advisable to purchase this? Then can I get some info on what could be good for a rookie??? Or would it be a good idea to get the rig and just get a different main and reserve along with an AAD?

[NovaTTT 2]

At this time in your skydiving career, this rig is not good for you in any configuration.

There are many discussions of good gear choices for beginner/new jumpers. Use the search function.

You can start here.

Again, I encourage you to speak with your instructors or a local rigger for gear advice. They know the gear and they know your strengths and weaknesses.

Good luck!

"Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73

[littledanny50 0]

What about Getting the rig and getting a larger canopy? Can anyone tell me what is the largest that that rig can have?

[likestojump 3]

Whle the Javelin J1 is able to handle a used 170 canopy, the problem is that at your exit weight (170) and experience (low), the 150 reserve is also a piss poor choice for you. And a J1 will not handle a reserve larger than a Tempo 150/PDR143 :(

[BrianM 1]

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What about Getting the rig and getting a larger canopy? Can anyone tell me what is the largest that that rig can have?

150 according to the manufacturer. I did have a Sabre 170 in a J1 at one time, so it can be done, but it was a tight fit and I would not recommend it. I did it because it was only for a short while.

Something else to consider is that if the main is too small for you, then so is the reserve. There's not much point buying a complete rig if you are only going to use the harness/container - especially if the harness and container are both the wrong size.

"It's amazing what you can learn while you're not talking." - Skydivesg

[BrianM 1]

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And a J1 will not handle a reserve larger than a Tempo 150/PDR143 :(

I've got a J1 with a Raven I in it. It's not even difficult to pack. I've always wondered why it fits so well, its not supposed to!

"It's amazing what you can learn while you're not talking." - Skydivesg

[littledanny50 0]

So is a Raven 1 better as the reserve?

[likestojump 3]

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And a J1 will not handle a reserve larger than a Tempo 150/PDR143 :(

I've got a J1 with a Raven I in it. It's not even difficult to pack. I've always wondered why it fits so well, its not supposed to!

what's the DOM on your Raven1 ? Dacron or Microlines ?

[davelepka 4]

Take a pass on this rig. By the time you resize the harness, and replace all the canopies to fit your weight/experience, you'll have spent twice what it's worth.

If you're looking for a rig that will hold a 170 main and 170 reserve, that's a very common size container, and you should have no problem coming up with a variety of used rigs to choose from. You might also look to buy the components seperately, and piece a rig together.

The main thought is to involve your instructors and a local rigger. Consult your instructors for advice on what type and what size canopies you should be looking for. They have jumped with you, and seen you fly the student rigs, and are in the best position to advise you.

Have ALL equipment you're considering inspected by a local rigger. Run any possibilities by him before you even contact the seller to se ewhat his impression is. Beyond that, have the rigger help you to arrnage for equipment to be shipped before you tender payment to the seller so it can be inspected, and in the case of a harness, test fitted. You may end up having to tender payment to a third party to hold while the gear is being inspected, but this is normal, and again, have the rigger take the lead on this.

Proper equipment selection and compatibility is key to making a safe skydive. Some errors in equipment choice can limit your learning, and make skydiving less fun, while other errors in this area can kill you. Be sure to involve professionals in these choices until your knowledge of gear and rigger is established.

[BrianM 1]

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And a J1 will not handle a reserve larger than a Tempo 150/PDR143 :(

I've got a J1 with a Raven I in it. It's not even difficult to pack. I've always wondered why it fits so well, its not supposed to!

what's the DOM on your Raven1 ? Dacron or Microlines ?

1992 (as is the J1), spectra lines. The reserve sizes listed by Sun Path are for reserves with microline, BTW.

"It's amazing what you can learn while you're not talking." - Skydivesg

[BrianM 1]

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So is a Raven 1 better as the reserve?

They're both good reserves. A Raven 1 is a 181, which is bigger than a Tempo 150.

"It's amazing what you can learn while you're not talking." - Skydivesg

[littledanny50 0]

So then why not just get the rig, get the 170 main and the Raven 1 for the reserve?

[labrys 0]

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So then why not just get the rig

Because it was made for someone a lot bigger than you. If you have the manufacturer adjust the harness, the cost of the work will probably make the total cost too high.

If you choose to jump it as-is, you may have problems, real problems, down the road. You may be able to wear the harness on the ground and think it fits "okay" but a loose harness under canopy might mean that you end up with your reserve handle somewhere near the top of your head or jammed into your left ear during an emergency when the harness is under tension.

Why, why, why would you want to buy a skydiving system that doesn't fit?

Owned by Remi #?

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

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So then why not just get the rig, get the 170 main and the Raven 1 for the reserve?

Because there are a lot better options out there.

A rig that fits you, and will hold appropriate sized main and reserve canopies without being overstuffed would be the best option. Remember, that although you can squeeze a main and a reserve that's bigger than intended, it is a pain in the ass to pack, your rigger will not like it (the reserve is a pain to pack too) and it will put extra stress on the container. The flaps will be overstressed and the stitching may suffer. The stiffeners will be bent in ways they aren't supposed to and will break inside the flaps and need to be replaced sooner than they would otherwise.

Why are you so set on getting this particular rig?

Or did you already get it and are trying to figure out how to get it to work for you?

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[littledanny50 0]

I havent purchased it. I am just trying to get info on it and see my options. I am being informed about alot of things and its really interesting to me.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

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I havent purchased it. I am just trying to get info on it and see my options. I am being informed about alot of things and its really interesting to me.

Cool. no offense meant. There have been more than a few folks trying to justify their unwise purchases. Read davelepka's sigline to get a taste of the attitude I'm talking about.

You can learn a lot on here, but you have to be humble enough to listen to stuff you don't like hearing to get the most out of the knowledge here.

Note that the opinions are unanimous against getting this particular rig.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[littledanny50 0]

ok. Thanks for the advice. As the info comes in I do like the fact that there is alot of knowledge being passed around. Its very informative to me and I appreciate all of it.

[riggerrob 643]

Icarus may have started out by measuring Safires by Precision's method, but around 2001, Icarus switched to Performance Design's measuring method.

[PhreeZone 20]

All Safire1's are measured with the older method, only the newer Safire2's are using the PD method.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[glgflyer 0]

What exactly are the two different methods of measuring the square footage of canopies?

[riggerrob 643]

There are multiple methods for measuring the size of ram-air canopies ... and it gets really complicated when canopies get tapered/oval/elliptical.

The first method was written (around 1980) by Para-Flite and it measured chord from the top leading edge straight back to the trailing edge. Para-Flite measures span across the top skin, 6 inches back from the leading edge. Para-Flite's measuring method was copied by Parachute Industries of Southern Africa (when they built canopies under license from Para-Flite) and became the Parachute Industry Association's standard. The PIA system was simple (because you only needed to measure one rib) when canopies were rectangular.

When tapered canopies came into fashion, measurement became far more complicated. For example, you now had to measure a dozen ribs (to determine chord) and do a whole bunch of calculations (to determine area).
The other problem was that PIA's span measurement method did not "scale" gracefully. The PIA method worked great when 200 square foot canopies were popular, but not longer accurate with sub-100 square foot canopies or the complex wrap-around noses of Crossfires. So Performance Designs switched to measuring span across the bottom skin. Eventually many other manufacutrers followed PD's lead.

If you measure the same canopy - with both methods - the PD method will produce a smaller area. IOW a PD 150 will fly "bigger" than a Precision 150.