Reversed Handles

[kkeenan 14]

There has been some discussion in the past about the Rapid Transit System (RTS) rig, with the Reserve and Cutaway handles revesed. I was researching a fatality that occurred at DeLand in 1980, which involved an RTS. There was another fatality in DeLand shortly after that, also RTS-related. Does anyone remember how many fatalities were linked to this "reverse-handle" configuration ?

The RTS was made in DeLand, so it's no surprise that there were many in use there, but does anyone know if the "reversed-handle" RTS was widely distributed ? How long and how many rigs before they returned production to the conventional configuration ? It seems that the RTS never recovered from the stigma of the accidents, and went out of production.

Kevin K.

[jimmytavino 16]

imho...

it was a Silly idea.


jmy

[JohnRich 4]

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imho... it was a Silly idea.

Actually, in the old days, there was no standard for which side each pull handle should be on. Every manufacturer chose for himself, and there was a variety of gear with left-right controls reversed. So this wasn't just a silly idea by RTS alone to do it differently - it was the way everyone did it back then. It wasn't until about 20-some years ago that the manufacturers got together and standardized the controls. And you should note that there are still some differences over to which riser an RSL should be attached.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

My first rig had "reverse" handles. It was a 1979 Bullet. I was told that the manufacturer Mike Zahar would ask customers which configuration they wanted when they ordered. I had them reversed to the conventional configuration a couple of years later.

[kkeenan 14]

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imho...

it was a Silly idea.

Just so Jimmy doesn't have to explain his own joke...

The maker of the Rapit Transit System was famous DeLand jumpsuit maker Michael "Silly" Cerasolli, creator of the Silly Suit.

_____________________________________
Dude, you are so awesome...
Can I be on your ash jump ?

[councilman24 37]

In 1982 I ordered a custome Northern Lite with reversed handles because I wanted them that way. Unfortunately they also put the leg strap throw out on the left, a completely reversed rig.

For several years I had a complete left handed rig with a left leg throw out, a complete right handed rig (today's normal) with a right hand thow out, and a older piggy back rig with a right hand main ripcord. I jumped all three routinely and never reached the wrong way.

But, not a good idea. The location was 'standardized' until around 1984 or 85.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[masterrigger1 2]

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It seems that the RTS never recovered from the stigma of the accidents, and went out of production.

It is still in production today (well sort of) in the form of the Mirage. RTS made a model called the Mirage. It was a two pin container with the pins toward the user's back just like the Racer is made.

The company sold out to National in Fleming, NJ who turned the Mirage pin locations around to the back of the rig.


National sold the TSO and now you have Mirage Systems using it.

Cheers,
MEL

Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

[JerryBaumchen 1,468]

Hi folks,

The 'idea' of a 'reversed' rig has been around since 1964; there two Security CrossBow rigs on the dz I frequented that were built that way.

All of my personal rigs that I have built were 'reversed.' I have jumped them & 'normal' rigs on the same day and never had any problem. However IMO, it is very important that one remembers just what the configuration of the rig that they are jumping is like.

I am also a strong proponent that the current 'standard' is bass-acwards.

Mark) National did not buy the TSO; they licensed it from SouthEast Sewing. National went out of the sport gear business and the license lapsed. I have a letter from National explaining the details of how they did the licensing agreement and how they dealt with the FAA at that time.

I would 'suspect' that the current mfrs entered into some sort of agreement with the TSO holder to start up their current company.

JerryBaumchen

[masterrigger1 2]

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Mark) National did not buy the TSO; they licensed it from SouthEast Sewing. National went out of the sport gear business and the license lapsed.

That's strange! The reason is that National is technically still in the sport business with sport emergency rigs! But I guess if they had seperate TSOs going I can see how that could be.

So who is SE sewing? Anyone we know?

Warning Thread Drift ...Jerry, you still just have the one TSO on the stage II...correct?


BS,
MEL

Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

[JerryBaumchen 1,468]

Hi Mark,

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So who is SE sewing? Anyone we know?

I do not know the principles. I am 'thinking' that it was the guys who made the RTS rigs, just doing a 'dba' thing as whatever company name they went by to make the RTS rigs.

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you still just have the one TSO on the stage II...correct?

Yup; TSO-authorizaations are good forever unless:

1. They are surrendered by the holder
2. Revoked by the FAA Administrator

JerryBaumchen

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

Quote

In 1982 I ordered a custome Northern Lite with reversed handles because I wanted them that way. Unfortunately they also put the leg strap throw out on the left, a completely reversed rig.

For several years I had a complete left handed rig with a left leg throw out, a complete right handed rig (today's normal) with a right hand throw out, and a older piggy back rig with a right hand main ripcord. I jumped all three routinely and never reached the wrong way.

But, not a good idea.

Wow! So, lemme guess... your plan was to keep pulling handles until blood filled your goggles?



JUST KIDDING!

[sundevil777 102]

Quote

Quote

In 1982 I ordered a custome Northern Lite with reversed handles because I wanted them that way. Unfortunately they also put the leg strap throw out on the left, a completely reversed rig.

For several years I had a complete left handed rig with a left leg throw out, a complete right handed rig (today's normal) with a right hand throw out, and a older piggy back rig with a right hand main ripcord. I jumped all three routinely and never reached the wrong way.

But, not a good idea.

Wow! So, lemme guess... your plan was to keep pulling handles until blood filled your goggles?



JUST KIDDING!

Or just pull both handles simultaneously, no problem!

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[IanHarrop 43]

I had a Rapid Transit System that I jumped in the early-mid 80s and I was out of the sport for quite a number of years.

So when I came back to jumping in 2003 I got some very entertaining comments about the reversed handles on my RTS. Whenever some one looked at my gear and said, "That's f#@ked up", I would ask if they wanted to borrow it. Never had any takers...

I only put 25 jumps on it before retiring it and getting new gear.

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[Andy9o8 2]

People our age remember when cross-pull ripcord placements had some degree of attraction back in the 70s. The idea being, to get more force out of a pull when done in a cross-pull action. That may have been the logic behind the "reversed handles" (which really should just be called "cross-pull handles") of the days of yore. That being said, there's obviously a benefit to gear standardization, to avoid the "borrowed gear kills" syndrome which, fortunately, has also been (mostly!) relegated to history.

[mjosparky 4]

There were cross pull mains back in the day because the most B-4 containers came with a left hand ripcord handle. They were originally aircrew emergency rigs. Skydivers took them and hung a QAC on the front for a reserve which worked out good because most QAC’s had a right hand pull.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[JerryBaumchen 1,468]

Hi Ian,

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"That's f#@ked up",

It was about '83 or so, I was at the Turkey Boogie in Spaceland ( Houston, TX ). The rig ( of my own design & build ) had the 3-rings that had been in the recall and if they had been tested OK then you put a lead rigger's seal on them.

Well, I had the rigger's seal on my 3-rings and was sitting in the Otter on the way to altitude when this guy across from me says, 'I wouldn't jump that rig.' I asked him if he was concerned about the 3-rings being OK or not and he said it was because of the reversed handles.

And the Eurpeans eat with their fork in their left hand. How wrong of them.

JerryBaumchen

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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And the Eurpeans eat with their fork in their left hand.

As do cultured North Americans.

[mjosparky 4]

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and he said it was because of the reversed handles.

Jerry,

Did you tell him is OK the negative was just flipped.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[mjosparky 4]

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And the Eurpeans eat with their fork in their left hand.

As do cultured North Americans.

If they were cultured they would at least hold it right side up.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[phoenixlpr 0]

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And the Eurpeans eat with their fork in their left hand. How wrong of them. Crazy

Sure, but can you eat with a knife in the left if you are holding your fork in the right?

[HSPScott 0]

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I am also a strong proponent that the current 'standard' is bass-acwards.

How do you meant that they are backwards????

[JerryBaumchen 1,468]

Hi Scott,

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How do you meant that they are backwards????

I am very strongly prevalent with my right hand. In fact I can do very little with my left hand. However, unless I ( and most of us ) use a single-handle system, I would still have to use my left hand at some point in performing a cutaway.

Since I have always considered that my reserve is my last hope on a jump, I want to be able to get the handle out & pulled with the least possible delay or problem(s). For me that would be a very fast 'stab' using my right hand & my thumb as a 'hook' to get that handle out & moving.

Now that is just me & you may disagree; and I am OK with any disagreement.

Now, for some history. Back in the Spring of '64 ( yes, before most of you were born ), Security Parachute Co. came out with the first piggyback rig called a CrossBow. In those days there were no soft pilot chutes ( throw-out / pull-out pilot chutes ), you deployed the main by pulling a ripcord. So with a piggyback in those days you had to have two ripcords. Since most jumpers had, up to that time, been using military surplus gear and most had converted the military rigs to a right-hand, outside pull; so Security kept this arrangement: The main ripcord was on the right lift web & the reserve ripcord was on the left lift web.

Due to that configuration ( and some influence due to military designs ), the reserve ripcord being on the left lift web became the defacto configuration.

I contend that had the soft pilot chute been around in '64 that Security would have put their reserve ripcord on the right lift web in an inboard postion.

They didn't resulting in what we have now for a 'standard' configuration.

If everyone who has thoughts on this would simply erase their memory of what they know and think about what is the best configuration ( I contend ) they would agree with me that the current configuration is bass-acwards; or maybe they wouldn't.

I've been wrong before & I'll be wrong again in the future.

Is that sufficient explanation on how I feel about this subject?

JerryBaumchen

[billvon 3,120]

>I am very strongly prevalent with my right hand. In fact I can do very little
> with my left hand. However, unless I ( and most of us ) use a single-
>handle system, I would still have to use my left hand at some point in
>performing a cutaway.

A few points there:

1) There is a significant advantage to using one system as a standard. Many incidents have been traced to the use of unfamiliar gear; standard handle placement helps with this problem.

2) Both the main and reserve handles on standard (i.e. non tandem non SOS) systems can be accessed with both hands, although the 'nearest' hand is both closer and more effective. Thus for a right handed person, they will always be able to use their dominant hand for deployment, cutaway and reserve.

3) In cases of injury it is useful to have handles on both sides, so that an injury to a jumper's right hand will not lead to an inability to pull. (Having the reserve handle in front on _either_ side helps with this, but having main and reserve on opposite sides is ideal here.)

4) The ultimate solution there is a belly band system; the main, reserve and cutaway handles are all accessible with both hands. (Main deployment is awkward but possible with the 'wrong' hand.) For ripcord systems a two-handle main deployment system is straightforward and might be a good option for people at risk, like people with easily dislocatable shoulders.

5) At least one manufacturer offers a dual-SOS system where either handle both cuts away and deploys the reserve. They're more complex though.