AAD question + how long does a repack and AAD install take?

[NovaTTT 2]

Take it in stride, Ridestrong. You're a young jumper with little and limited experience, so when you come onto this forum giving highest praise for your rigger, it is taken with a helluva lotta salt. But the advice you've been given is good advice.

Nobody is saying your rigger isn't good, or that he's not doing a good job. What's being said is that rigging isn't about speed. It's about attention to detail; it's about all the certainty that there can be. A complete inspection of a rig, even one that is brand new, is time-consuming if done meticulously.

So I guess what's being said is that you don't have the experience to evaluate riggers, other than based on friendliness and word-of-mouth - neither of which are bad things, but they're not everything. A rigger who is perfect for your best buddy may not be a good rigger for you.

Live and learn.

Nova

"Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73

[billvon 3,086]

>Anyway next time I will be sure to interview a shit load of riggers and
>based on their resumes and background checks choose the best one.

Cool, although just watching them work, learning about your gear, reading up on the process of rigging and watching other riggers work is a better solution. People can stretch the truth about their backgrounds.

One of the warning signs for any rigger are repacks that always take an hour and assemblies that always take two hours. When rigs get older, wear becomes more evident and often that requires a call to the manufacturer to verify airworthiness. Occasionally it requires some minor maintenance, like grommet resetting, velcro/spandex/stiffener/grommet replacement and/or overstitching/restitching. Sometimes that can be done quickly, sometimes it requires something (like a harness machine) that they don't have.

Even new rigs have issues. I can think of a reserve that came in without crossports on ONE rib, a main on which a few lines were not sewn, a tandem rig that had the reserve risers glued (not stitched, glued) to the harness and a freebag that had no grommet for the closing loop. (That one was easy to catch.) One reason new-rig assembly can take longer is that you have to look for all that, and the problem is not always obvious. Heck, even where to _look_ sometimes isn't obvious.

Most riggers are pretty good, but some aren't - and sadly these can be hard to detect for new jumpers.

[erdnarob 1]

*Complete inspection of a new reserve = 60-90 minutes (all stitches top and bottom surface, line attachments points, lines, a look inside each half cell, brakes set up, steering line set up (if not done), connectors links...)
*Complete inspection of the container system = 15-30 minutes (all stitches, all grommets, binding tape, making of closing loop for reserve, AAD installation... )
* inspection of the main = 25-35 minutes (all lines, all stitches top and bottom surface, look inside each half cells, line attachments points, brake and steering line set up, connector links, risers...)
* reserve packing + packing card + registration + verify the data...)= 2 hours
* main packing = 15 minutes

TOTAL = minimum of 235 minutes or almost 4 hours. And most of the riggers don't dare asking a little 20$/hour for that. Though your dentist will ask you 200 $ for 40 minutes, same for the plumber or the electrician.

Now, you speak about Cypres or Argus, why not buying a Vigil II, less expensive than a Cypres and no compulsory maintenance. You send it back for a check when you want (ie. at the end of the skydiving season). How would you like to have all electronics you buy to be submitted to expensive compulsory checks at a specific time (could be in the middle of the skydiving season, what a bummer!) especially when the device tells you what it is checking (BATteries, CUTter and CoNtRoL) OK or switch it off. Now you speak about your life depending on the AAD. Wrong approach! Any AAD is a back up device, you switch it on at the DZ when you arrive and forget it ie. You MUST perform your emergency procedures (if needed) as taught in your first jump course ALWAYS.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[almeister112 0]

Thanks for all of the replies. I'm definitely going to give them a call in the morning to get an appointment set up. Also, I'm assuming cash is usually preferred and/or required, right? I'll make a trip to the ATM before I head up.

As for the AAD, obviously it's just there as an absolutely-last-ditch failsafe, but I still may as well have one that will actually work, y'know? I'm definitely going to look into the Vigil. It sounds pretty good. I just hadn't heard much about it before. But again, thanks to everyone for the advice. As a complete newbie I definitely appreciate it.

[riggerrob 643]

I am backing ednarob on this issue.
It takes me a minimum of an hour to inspect a harness/container and reserve canopy.
Longer if it is faded, frayed and filthy.
If I find loose grommets, or popped stitches, etc. it takes longer.
Installing an AAD takes me about ten minutes.
Minimum one hour to pack a reserve.
If it is tight, I leave a sand bag on it for twenty minutes before closing the next flap, etc.
If I have not packed very many of that model, then another ten minutes of reading the manual in detail.
Ten minutes paperwork.
I never plan less than three hours for an assemble and pack, and many of them require four hours.

Yes, I know that the rigger down the street can turn a better profit "fluffing and stuffing" in half the time, but I am a narrow-minded, anal-retentive control freak who refuses to pack anything unless it is in near new condition.

If there is a long line of tandem students, forget about the DZO letting me do any rigging before sunset. By sunset, I will not care about anything except supper and sleep!

The bottom line is that dz.com will only give you educated guesses, far better to phone ahead and book an appointment with your rigger.

[piisfish 140]

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1- TOTAL = minimum of 235 minutes or almost 4 hours. And most of the riggers don't dare asking a little 20$/hour for that. Though your dentist will ask you 200 $ for 40 minutes, same for the plumber or the electrician.

2- Now you speak about your life depending on the AAD. Wrong approach! Any AAD is a back up device, you switch it on at the DZ when you arrive and forget it

1- Completely with you on this one. Inspecting gear and packing reserves is underpaid.

2-Switch on and forget. Just don't forget to turn it off when leaving the DZ

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[BrianM 1]

I agree with erdnarob/riggerrob. Most inspection & repacks take me anywhere from two to three hours. Assembly adds a bunch of time to that. Installing or removing an AAD adds a bit of time to that.

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he was quite thorough and meticulous. I believe that took him about 45 min,

45 minutes for an inspection and repack is not at all thorough and meticulous. It sounds more like a repack without an inspection. I've seen riggers do that. It defeats the entire purpose of the "repack", which is to inspect the gear.

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2-Switch on and forget.

I disagree. Having an AAD can change your decision tree. Definitely don't rely on it, but it's important to remember that it's there.

"It's amazing what you can learn while you're not talking." - Skydivesg

[erdnarob 1]

It's always pleasant to see some people who agree with me. I suspect that most of you are rigger and that's why you know exactly what I am talking about concerning reserve packing. Thanks guys.

Now, of course it's better to switch off the AAD at the end of the day especially if you are driving your car on an up and down travel back home since the AAD can "think" you are back in the air and will stay switched on. If you forget it and if the way back home is flat, the AAD will switch off after 14 hours starting from the last switch on time.
For Jerôme, sorry, I whish I would have all the rigs available to test them especially reserve popping. Hope to see you at Skydive Expo in March.
Now, I would like to hear more about the decision making tree being affected because of an AAD. One case I can see is when bailing out at 2000 feet and having a slow deployment canopy. Comments appreciated.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

Another is losing altlitude awareness and suddenly realizing you are at 1200ft (or maybe a little lower). Your AAD hasn't fired yet, but it more than likely will during deployment if you deploy your main. The decision tree would dictate pulling the reserve under that situation.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo