wmw999 2,589 #26 August 17, 2004 QuoteThat's just a plain, outright lie. And how the hell do you know that? Were you there? Are you an expert alpinist? Or is it just from watching the movie and figuring you would have done something different? Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Misslmperfect 0 #27 August 17, 2004 QuoteQuoteBut I disagree about cutting the rope. Of course you do. People love to disagree/complain in these threads. thats funnyOh Canada, merci pour la livraison! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,596 #28 August 17, 2004 QuoteThat's just a plain, outright lie. No, it's true. Think about it 1) Yates had 150 feet further to fall than Joe Simpson whose own fall was high enough to knock him senseless. Would you expect to survive a fall from +150 feet? 2) With Yates dead the only person left at base camp is Richard, the guy they hooked up with to keep their camp safe. This man is not a climber and would have no hope of even negotiating the glacier to reach Simpson or Yates. 3) It was Yates that hung on at the camp for what, 2 or 3 day's after he himself got back? Richards would have been long gone by then and when Simson crawled back to the camp there would have been an empty field waiting for him. Result. 2 dead climbers. Now if you think there was something else that Yates could have done to save Simpson while being slowly pulled of the side of a mountain then please enlighten us. Or would you rather they had both died with honour?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites climbnjump 0 #29 August 17, 2004 QuoteQuoteBear in mind that in this case if the rope hadn't been cut they would both have died That's just a plain, outright lie. Makes me frightful to know I jump with people who have cowardly instincts and will let you die at the first hint of danger instead of AIO and refuse to leave a man behind. Dear Mr. Tuna, I apologize for frightening you - that wasn't my intent. While you have a billion more jumps than I'll ever have, it is pretty clear that your knowledge of climbing is minimal. (Or perhaps, you simply enjoy "stirring the pot".) While your beliefs would protect and save lives in battle, they would would have the opposite effect when the sh*t hits the fan on the side of a mountain. It has little to do with bravery or cowardice, but everything do to with properly analyzing the situation you are in and acting accordingly. So, I promise to never share airspace with you if you promise to never share a mountain with me. It should be a pretty easy bargain to keep. Best Regards. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tunaplanet 0 #30 August 17, 2004 I have training in mountain climbing. Simon had other options available to him. You not knowing what these are shows me you have no knowledge in this area. There's a reason Simon was shunned and outcasted in the mountain climbing community. Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #31 August 17, 2004 QuoteI have training in mountain climbing. Simon had other options available to him. You not knowing what these are shows me you have no knowledge in this area. There's a reason Simon was shunned and outcasted in the mountain climbing community. Reasons and options you can't actually seem to articulate. It's just chest beating till you do. The climber had a lousy hand - fatigued, in a storm, and with incomplete information. If he was a coward he would have abandoned the guy much higher up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,120 #32 August 17, 2004 >Makes me frightful to know I jump with people who have cowardly instincts >and will let you die at the first hint of danger . . . Then whatever you do, don't jump with AFF instructors! They'll sooner let you die than go in chasing you (in fact, they're trained to do just that.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites climbnjump 0 #33 August 18, 2004 QuoteI have training in mountain climbing. Simon had other options available to him. You not knowing what these are shows me you have no knowledge in this area. Um, I didn't say he didn't have options. Just that without actually being there in his place, it isn't possible, for me anyway, to judge his actions. You obviously feel differently. Learning is important to me. If I can learn from you, that would be great. So please, educate us all - tell us what you would have done in his place. Exactly what does your training say Simon should have done? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,589 #34 August 18, 2004 Quote I have training in mountain climbing. How's that go again??? Oh yeah -- Prove it! I think I've heard you say that a time or two. Otherwise it's just assertions in the ether. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nacmacfeegle 0 #35 August 18, 2004 "Simon had other options available to him." Such as? "There's a reason Simon was shunned and outcasted in the mountain climbing community." I recall attending a lecture by Simon Yates, and he was anything but shunned, well at least in the Clachaig Inn where the lecuture was held. He was welcomed, appreciated, and the lecture was oversubscribed.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LivingLegend 0 #36 August 18, 2004 Quote ...... and you don't think they have an AAD. ........did not have an AAD to the best of my knowledge. Dumb newbie question but as an instructor isnt it your job to know whether they have an AAD or not ? ________________________________________ 1.618 ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Squeak 17 #37 August 18, 2004 QuoteQuote ...... and you don't think they have an AAD. ........did not have an AAD to the best of my knowledge. As an instructor isnt it your job to know whether they have an AAD or not ? Bill wan't her instructor, she was on a load that he was on and he saved her. Check incidnents from last years WFFC, there a full write up thereYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Casurf1978 0 #38 August 18, 2004 QuoteI have training in mountain climbing. Simon had other options available to him. You not knowing what these are shows me you have no knowledge in this area. There's a reason Simon was shunned and outcasted in the mountain climbing community. Then enlighten us as to what you would have done, being a highly trained alpanist. I've read the book long before this movie came out and I know one alpanist who has summited Everest, K2, and several other mountains. When asked what he would've done in such a situation, he simply looked at me and said "I dont know, I wasnt there." FYI it wasnt Simon who cut the rope, it was Yates. If you ever decided to read the book Simon said he would've done the same thing, hell the book was WRITTEN by Simon to exonorate his friend. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Dagny 0 #39 August 18, 2004 Quoteit wasnt Simon who cut the rope, it was Yates Just to clarify...the two climbers are Simon Yates and Joe Simpson. Simon was the one who cut the rope. Quotethe book was WRITTEN by Simon to exonorate his friend. Actually, it was written by Joe Simpson. (Along with four other books, I might add) Okay...carry on! Take me, I am the drug; take me, I am hallucinogenic. -Salvador Dali Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nacmacfeegle 0 #40 August 18, 2004 I'd also like to hear how people would react to the not dissimilar situation described by Wendy further up the thread. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1202460#1202460 Its an equally unpleasant place to find oneself.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Dagny 0 #41 August 18, 2004 Given that scenario, I'd chop it. I'd try like hell to get the other skydiver's attention and coordinate it somehow, but at some point (and to save my own life) I'd let it go. Watching that person go in, I'd be damned if I walked past just yelling, "hey, you okay?" as I walk past and then just assume that the person was dead. Relating the two situations, it would be like I chopped, walked away without confirming that status of the skydiver's condition, went to the bar, poured a drink for my fallen comrade, and went about my business. Just bad form. Even Simon admittted that (in retrospect) he should have checked on his friend. I have less of an issue with his cutting the rope in a seemingly desperate situation without any other outs than I do with his neglect in checking on his climbing partner the next day.Take me, I am the drug; take me, I am hallucinogenic. -Salvador Dali Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Casurf1978 0 #42 August 18, 2004 Thanks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skycat 0 #43 August 18, 2004 QuoteI have training in mountain climbing. Simon had other options available to him. You not knowing what these are shows me you have no knowledge in this area. There's a reason Simon was shunned and outcasted in the mountain climbing community. Please then tell us what those options are, because I rock climb, mountain climb, and have started playing in the high alititude alpine world, and am always conserned with having to rescue my partner on my own. Escaping the belay and self rescue are 2 things that are high on my list of things I constantly need to keep learning.Fly it like you stole it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nacmacfeegle 0 #44 August 18, 2004 Skycat, International Mountain Rescue Handbook Hamish MacInnes ISBN 0094753601 Is a great place to start. Lots in there (from memory) about setting up self, partner, and organised rescue. The author is pretty well respected, to say the least.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 2 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
jakee 1,596 #28 August 17, 2004 QuoteThat's just a plain, outright lie. No, it's true. Think about it 1) Yates had 150 feet further to fall than Joe Simpson whose own fall was high enough to knock him senseless. Would you expect to survive a fall from +150 feet? 2) With Yates dead the only person left at base camp is Richard, the guy they hooked up with to keep their camp safe. This man is not a climber and would have no hope of even negotiating the glacier to reach Simpson or Yates. 3) It was Yates that hung on at the camp for what, 2 or 3 day's after he himself got back? Richards would have been long gone by then and when Simson crawled back to the camp there would have been an empty field waiting for him. Result. 2 dead climbers. Now if you think there was something else that Yates could have done to save Simpson while being slowly pulled of the side of a mountain then please enlighten us. Or would you rather they had both died with honour?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
climbnjump 0 #29 August 17, 2004 QuoteQuoteBear in mind that in this case if the rope hadn't been cut they would both have died That's just a plain, outright lie. Makes me frightful to know I jump with people who have cowardly instincts and will let you die at the first hint of danger instead of AIO and refuse to leave a man behind. Dear Mr. Tuna, I apologize for frightening you - that wasn't my intent. While you have a billion more jumps than I'll ever have, it is pretty clear that your knowledge of climbing is minimal. (Or perhaps, you simply enjoy "stirring the pot".) While your beliefs would protect and save lives in battle, they would would have the opposite effect when the sh*t hits the fan on the side of a mountain. It has little to do with bravery or cowardice, but everything do to with properly analyzing the situation you are in and acting accordingly. So, I promise to never share airspace with you if you promise to never share a mountain with me. It should be a pretty easy bargain to keep. Best Regards. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunaplanet 0 #30 August 17, 2004 I have training in mountain climbing. Simon had other options available to him. You not knowing what these are shows me you have no knowledge in this area. There's a reason Simon was shunned and outcasted in the mountain climbing community. Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #31 August 17, 2004 QuoteI have training in mountain climbing. Simon had other options available to him. You not knowing what these are shows me you have no knowledge in this area. There's a reason Simon was shunned and outcasted in the mountain climbing community. Reasons and options you can't actually seem to articulate. It's just chest beating till you do. The climber had a lousy hand - fatigued, in a storm, and with incomplete information. If he was a coward he would have abandoned the guy much higher up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #32 August 17, 2004 >Makes me frightful to know I jump with people who have cowardly instincts >and will let you die at the first hint of danger . . . Then whatever you do, don't jump with AFF instructors! They'll sooner let you die than go in chasing you (in fact, they're trained to do just that.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
climbnjump 0 #33 August 18, 2004 QuoteI have training in mountain climbing. Simon had other options available to him. You not knowing what these are shows me you have no knowledge in this area. Um, I didn't say he didn't have options. Just that without actually being there in his place, it isn't possible, for me anyway, to judge his actions. You obviously feel differently. Learning is important to me. If I can learn from you, that would be great. So please, educate us all - tell us what you would have done in his place. Exactly what does your training say Simon should have done? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,589 #34 August 18, 2004 Quote I have training in mountain climbing. How's that go again??? Oh yeah -- Prove it! I think I've heard you say that a time or two. Otherwise it's just assertions in the ether. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #35 August 18, 2004 "Simon had other options available to him." Such as? "There's a reason Simon was shunned and outcasted in the mountain climbing community." I recall attending a lecture by Simon Yates, and he was anything but shunned, well at least in the Clachaig Inn where the lecuture was held. He was welcomed, appreciated, and the lecture was oversubscribed.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LivingLegend 0 #36 August 18, 2004 Quote ...... and you don't think they have an AAD. ........did not have an AAD to the best of my knowledge. Dumb newbie question but as an instructor isnt it your job to know whether they have an AAD or not ? ________________________________________ 1.618 ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #37 August 18, 2004 QuoteQuote ...... and you don't think they have an AAD. ........did not have an AAD to the best of my knowledge. As an instructor isnt it your job to know whether they have an AAD or not ? Bill wan't her instructor, she was on a load that he was on and he saved her. Check incidnents from last years WFFC, there a full write up thereYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casurf1978 0 #38 August 18, 2004 QuoteI have training in mountain climbing. Simon had other options available to him. You not knowing what these are shows me you have no knowledge in this area. There's a reason Simon was shunned and outcasted in the mountain climbing community. Then enlighten us as to what you would have done, being a highly trained alpanist. I've read the book long before this movie came out and I know one alpanist who has summited Everest, K2, and several other mountains. When asked what he would've done in such a situation, he simply looked at me and said "I dont know, I wasnt there." FYI it wasnt Simon who cut the rope, it was Yates. If you ever decided to read the book Simon said he would've done the same thing, hell the book was WRITTEN by Simon to exonorate his friend. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dagny 0 #39 August 18, 2004 Quoteit wasnt Simon who cut the rope, it was Yates Just to clarify...the two climbers are Simon Yates and Joe Simpson. Simon was the one who cut the rope. Quotethe book was WRITTEN by Simon to exonorate his friend. Actually, it was written by Joe Simpson. (Along with four other books, I might add) Okay...carry on! Take me, I am the drug; take me, I am hallucinogenic. -Salvador Dali Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #40 August 18, 2004 I'd also like to hear how people would react to the not dissimilar situation described by Wendy further up the thread. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1202460#1202460 Its an equally unpleasant place to find oneself.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dagny 0 #41 August 18, 2004 Given that scenario, I'd chop it. I'd try like hell to get the other skydiver's attention and coordinate it somehow, but at some point (and to save my own life) I'd let it go. Watching that person go in, I'd be damned if I walked past just yelling, "hey, you okay?" as I walk past and then just assume that the person was dead. Relating the two situations, it would be like I chopped, walked away without confirming that status of the skydiver's condition, went to the bar, poured a drink for my fallen comrade, and went about my business. Just bad form. Even Simon admittted that (in retrospect) he should have checked on his friend. I have less of an issue with his cutting the rope in a seemingly desperate situation without any other outs than I do with his neglect in checking on his climbing partner the next day.Take me, I am the drug; take me, I am hallucinogenic. -Salvador Dali Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casurf1978 0 #42 August 18, 2004 Thanks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skycat 0 #43 August 18, 2004 QuoteI have training in mountain climbing. Simon had other options available to him. You not knowing what these are shows me you have no knowledge in this area. There's a reason Simon was shunned and outcasted in the mountain climbing community. Please then tell us what those options are, because I rock climb, mountain climb, and have started playing in the high alititude alpine world, and am always conserned with having to rescue my partner on my own. Escaping the belay and self rescue are 2 things that are high on my list of things I constantly need to keep learning.Fly it like you stole it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nacmacfeegle 0 #44 August 18, 2004 Skycat, International Mountain Rescue Handbook Hamish MacInnes ISBN 0094753601 Is a great place to start. Lots in there (from memory) about setting up self, partner, and organised rescue. The author is pretty well respected, to say the least.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 2 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
skycat 0 #43 August 18, 2004 QuoteI have training in mountain climbing. Simon had other options available to him. You not knowing what these are shows me you have no knowledge in this area. There's a reason Simon was shunned and outcasted in the mountain climbing community. Please then tell us what those options are, because I rock climb, mountain climb, and have started playing in the high alititude alpine world, and am always conserned with having to rescue my partner on my own. Escaping the belay and self rescue are 2 things that are high on my list of things I constantly need to keep learning.Fly it like you stole it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #44 August 18, 2004 Skycat, International Mountain Rescue Handbook Hamish MacInnes ISBN 0094753601 Is a great place to start. Lots in there (from memory) about setting up self, partner, and organised rescue. The author is pretty well respected, to say the least.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
