Reserve safety stow

[DSE 5]

If you went to re-pack a reserve and found a safety stow that looked like this, what would you do?
Merely repair it, or have a chat with the previous rigger?
Or purchase a new one from the manufacturer?
Reinstall it or hang on your wall of shame?

(in the attached photo, you can see the factory replacement vs the homemade attempt).

[piisfish 140]

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(in the attached photo, you can see the factory replacement vs the homemade attempt).

which is which ??

WAW... just WAW ... But are you sure it's a homemade attempt ? Is it not possible that a factory piece degrades ? (I doubt that THAT would be the result)

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[davelepka 4]

That's dirty man. If you think about it, the safety stow doesn't really take that much loading during the pack job itself, and generally once the stows are in place, it's under very little tension. During the repack cycle, it just sits there motionless unless the reserve is actually used. For the stiching to pull free like that under those conditions implies that the stiching was very loose right from the start.

I would vote for 'Contact previous rigger, hang on wall of shame, then install new factory-made stow'.

[GLIDEANGLE 1]

Whiner! How bad could this be? It only a reserve, thus not likely to be used. Heck, the worst case scenario is probably only an out of sequence deployment @ terminal speed. Real men can handle a slammer!

(Anyone who thinks I am being serious needs to put down the caffiene and back away from the keyboard.)

The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

[tombuch 0]

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I would vote for 'Contact previous rigger, hang on wall of shame, then install new factory-made stow'.

I double that vote. I'd also show the client the old part without laying blame, but point out it was time for a replacement part. Owners should understand the benefits of an inspection by a quality rigger.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[DSE 5]

From a Sigma, first repack of the rig. Notice the difference in size?

[MakeItHappen 15]

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From a Sigma, first repack of the rig. Notice the difference in size?

First repack ever or first one you did?
If it was first repack ever, wouldn't that mean that the factory provided the safety stow to whoever assembled the rig in the first place?

BTW, some baking soda and vinegar will clean that tile up real nice.

.

.
Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[BrianM 1]

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Notice the difference in size?

I did notice that. I'm curious how loose the locking stows were when you unpacked it (or was it deployed?).

BTW, my answer is the same as davelepka's:

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I would vote for 'Contact previous rigger, hang on wall of shame, then install new factory-made stow'.

"It's amazing what you can learn while you're not talking." - Skydivesg

[buff 0]

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BTW, some baking soda and vinegar will clean that tile up real nice.

.

Bonus: Failure analysis of grout.
1st repack, I'd definately send the pics to manuf.

It's called the Hillbilly Hop N Pop dude.
If you're gonna be stupid, you better be tough.
That's fucked up. Watermelons do not grow on trees! ~Skymama

[phoenixlpr 0]

Did the packjob look proper? Was the free-bag closed? Than it has served its purpose, but its time to replace.

[DSE 5]

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From a Sigma, first repack of the rig. Notice the difference in size?

First repack ever or first one you did?
.

Good catch Jan. Second pack job after the factory pack, so third time this reserve has been packed.

I'll have someone get right on that tile. It's not in my job description and well beyond my meager talent.

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

I'd definitly replace it and I'd definitly show it / talk about it with the rig's owner.

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

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BTW, some baking soda and vinegar will clean that tile up real nice.

Oh! If you think THAT'S dirty. You'd have a field-day at my house!

[councilman24 37]

I believe this kind of thing needs a discussion with the owner and with the previous rigger. Obviously some additional education is needed.

And a useful educational tool for others.

I'm the interim (for one meeting unless elected) PIA Rigging Committee Chairman. Depending on who the chairman is the Rigging committe chair has offered in the past to be an neutral third party if a rigger was uncomfortable contacting another rigger about issues like this. I'm only chair until Feb 7 at the moment but I was willing to do that when I was chair before and am willing to do it now. PM if you wish.

Rigging committe has a very old form for reporting rigging errors that never got much use or had it's fate well defined. Something for us to update and create an SOP or do away with.

PIA IS NOT AN ENFORCEMENT AGENCY, only at best an interested party.

There is one answer not offered yet. Call the local FAA. This may not rise to that level. That is each individual rigger's choice. But if I saw some of the things now that I saw when I was a newbie rigger in the early 80's I'd be dropping a dime. This is an extreme action, and won't likely result in any enforcement. Once the rig is open no way to prove who did what. But this has been necessary in the past.

Doesn't apply here, but when something would have killed the user without a doubt it's time to drop the dime.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[JerryBaumchen 1,468]

Hi Douglas,

This type of thing always brings up some thoughts.

1. With the two stows shown it does appear that they are of different dimensions; so was the POS with the poor stitching of the correct dimensions for the rig?

2. I would be VERY curious to see just how that POS got into the rig. While we do not live in a perfect world I do find it hard to believe that it might have left the factory sewn in a manner that would allow it to look like that after only a couple of repacks.

BTW, about 25 yrs ago I was having breakfast with Elek Puskas of Para-Flite & I asked him about the lifetime of a Safety Stow and he said that they should be replaced annually. However, I have never read anything that says that in any manual.

You came up with a beauty with this one,

JerryBaumchen

[davelepka 4]

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Second pack job after the factory pack, so third time this reserve has been packed.

Unless the first post-factory pack job was the result of a reserve deployment, the last rigger should have had the stow the factory used upon assembly.

If there was no reserve deplyment, maybe the last rigger made a larger stow to make it easier to close the bag. Did you happen to notice if the bag was 'closed' or was it hanging open with the canopy barely contained in the bag?

I'm not suggesting that it would be acceptable to do that, even if you sewed the stow correctly, but it would explain why a rig that should have had a factory safety stow installed would have a larger home-made stow in it's place.

[DSE 5]

Unless the first post-factory pack job was the result of a reserve deployment, the last rigger should have had the stow the factory used upon assembly.

If there was no reserve deplyment, maybe the last rigger made a larger stow to make it easier to close the bag. Did you happen to notice if the bag was 'closed' or was it hanging open with the canopy barely contained in the bag?

I'm not suggesting that it would be acceptable to do that, even if you sewed the stow correctly, but it would explain why a rig that should have had a factory safety stow installed would have a larger home-made stow in it's place.

[JerryBaumchen 1,468]

Hi Douglas,

As they say: The plot thickens.

JerryBaumchen

[SStewart 13]

Wow!

So now you are a rigger too?

Awesome! Good for you!

Onward and Upward!

[mjosparky 4]

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Hi Douglas,

As they say: The plot thickens.

JerryBaumchen

Hey Jerry,

To me this shows a mind set. A willingness to cut corners. To wing it so to speak. The reason reserves are so reliable is because in most cases they are packed following a proven set of procedures. And many of these procedures were established because someone died. I would definitely talk with the rigger and if he blew it off got the DPRE in that area. The FSDO would a last resort.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[PeteS 0]

A call or one on one to the Rigger would be an appropriate first step. Take notes. Hang paper on him if he is being a DB., PIA form TS 122 is a good format.
A DPRE is only an examiner and has no enforcement authority. Sure, you have the "old greybeard" thing going and it may be useful. The DPRE could have a negative effect if he/she comes off the wrong way.
Say if you could yank the packed bag off the floor as hard as you could, and it stayed closed. This would be relatively minor in the big scheme of things. But still needs to followed up on.

[NovaTTT 2]

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A call or one on one to the Rigger would be an appropriate first step. Take notes. Hang paper on him if he is being a DB., PIA form TS 122 TS116 is a good format.
A DPRE is only an examiner and has no enforcement authority. Sure, you have the "old greybeard" thing going and it may be useful. The DPRE could have a negative effect if he/she comes off the wrong way.
Say if you could yank the packed bag off the floor as hard as you could, and it stayed closed. This would be relatively minor in the big scheme of things. But still needs to followed up on.

Fixed that for you.

"Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73

[DSE 5]

Thanks for the input, everyone.
I'm not a rigger (yet). The rigger I'm learning from asked me what I felt should be done and I wanted to see if opinions in general matched my response. Always good to have a "conversation" with those who have experience.