Anyone tired of these fatalities?

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Quote

How do you know the guy that sat across from her on the plane wasn't severly effected by this death? Maybe it was the first time in their life that saw that type of thing happen to somebody.

Now that you bring this up Dom, let me share with you guys the short story of the first time I met my dear friend Holly. I was on an Otter during the Eloy Holiday Boogie two years ago. It was my 100th jump and we told people on the airplane this. Well guess who was on the airplane and guess who gave me a good lucky kiss? Holly Kish that's who. Then later on after talking on the ground we found out that we were both DZ.COMers (FreeFlyHol the creator of the High/Low thread which still gets added to, to this date).

So imagine what might have been going through my mind and what sort of emotions I may have felt if this was the time that I was sitting across the plane from Holly, when she gave me this kiss but then proceeded to have her fatal accident. Thank god it wasn't as I was given the opportunity to get to know the girl a little and was fortunate enough to call her my friend.

Once again, B.S.B.D Adria. It's my loss that I never got to meet you. But from the way people have described you here, you and my friend Holly will be "Partying like Rock Stars" (one of Holly's favorite sayings) in Heaven.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[dgskydive 0]

Quote

It was my 100th jump and we told people on the airplane this. Well guess who was on the airplane and guess who gave me a good lucky kiss? Holly Kish was that person.

I guess that is the thing that Tuna doesn't get. The next skydiver you smile at may become your best friend. Don't we all share a bond already that brings us closer together then most people?

I am not living in a fantasy world. We don't all get along and we don't have to. We don't even have to talk to each other.......... but we are all the same in a way.

We all like to live life to the fullest as best we can. We would all rather get up ealry on a Saturday morning and go hang at the DZ with a bunch of fools then sit at home and watch TV or go shopping at the mall. We are different then most people weather we want to admit it or not. We are a little off in the head and that is fine. I know that no matter were I am, if I run into a skydiver I am going to have a good time with them. I don't care the age or sex of that person, it is almost a sure thing that they are going to be a good person. Maybe that is why so many people feel the need to talk about things like this.

Dom

[dgskydive 0]

Quote

It is the drama factor that people are drawn to.

I think it is more their realization that it could be them next. For some they have never seen death before. For some they have never thought that this sport was actually dangerous.

Really, how do you know what any persons motive is for posting a condolence on DZ.com? Can you read minds? I will agree that some feed off the drama. That is common in life period and not specific to skydiving.

I also know that this online community is different then others. A lot of people on here actualy know each other. We have actually hung out and had fun together. We have a shared passion. I know that it makes me feel better to see people on here post vibes or prayers. I know that it has helped many family members find some comfort as well.

Eric Denney's family last year really loved to see how people responded on the site to Eric's ordeal. I know that Adria's family has read these forums in the past. I am going to print out the vibes threads and pass them to her mother, unless it has already been done. It will be good for her to see the things that we all had to say about Adria.

It will do her good to see that others are either feeling her loss or can understand how she feels. I bet it will also help her see that her baby girl was involved in something that didn't just take her daughter away from her. She will be able to see that her daughter surronded herself with good humans that had a passion for life and adventure. Maybe she will see that her daughter passed doing something that she loved to do. Maybe all these terrible bandwagon jumpers helped a grieving mother handle her pain a little better.


I have never thought of skydivers as uncaring and thoughtless people. That is until I read some the posts in this thread today.

Dom

[Vertifly 0]

I don't know dude... Whenever someone I know dies I always think about who they were, what they have done with there lives, and how I knew (or at least "perceived") them. Even if I don't know them personally; if I can dig something up that is good, then it gets remembered. Either way, it's better to be there for the people who are affected more than you. We should start by not considering incidents to be "cliche'".

Think about a world without their positive qualities in it. Like this girl - you thought she was pretty and that's something.

Mourning isn't a rubber-stamp procedure. The ability to appreciate someones strengths after they're gone is a matter of what you can reflect-on about them, helping others deal with it, and perhaps moving forward while appreciating their value.

Honor and integrity for our own - PARTICULARLY IN SKYDIVING.

That's about it.

[Nightingale 0]

I didn't really know what to post in the vibes thread, I kinda wanted to leave that to people who knew Adria better than I, but her death (and life) has affected people she barely knew.

Adria was sitting across from me in the plane when I made my first tandem jump. I was nervous, and was looking around at people's gear, and noticed her name on her rig. "Adria" what a pretty name, I thought. She gave me five and a grin and said something about relaxing, that everything was going to be fine. She didn't have to take the time to talk to a nervous student. But she did.

Sure, I didn't know Adria that well. We never jumped together. She was a freeflyer, I prefer RW. But she was always friendly to me when we ran into each other.

What I think people here are forgetting is that for many of us newbies, Adria's death was the first time somebody we knew, someone who sat across the plane from us and gave us fives before the door opened, had died in a skydiving incident. Reading about Adria wasn't just reading another incident report. Her death put a face to the words. It made the words on the screen personal somehow. Her death did affect us, although certainly in a different way than her close family and friends. I'd be willing to bet each and every one of us who is a newbie and knew Adria took the time to take a second look at whether or not we really want to keep jumping.

I'll be jumping on saturday, and Adria will be in my thoughts when I do.

[boudy 0]

Quote

Last I checked, prayers and thoughts were silent and did not require speaking let alone posts on a forum.

Did you happen to check if the same applied to cynical and sardonic remarks concerning those who posted messages of condolence to "strangers?"

Quote

People for some reason love to be in or involved in attention. It is beyond most people to just deal with something internally and move on. Too much insecure attention seekers running around.

You mean like those who are so disturbed by "vibes" threads that they feel compelled to self-righteously proclaim how they personally feel, think & act while belittling those inclined to feel, think & act differently?

BTW, how did you check the silent thoughts & prayers stuff???

Was it the same source for the omniscient sounding pronouncement that only a few people are actually touched or affected by a fatality at their dropzone?

What about small, "friendly-family" type DZ's?
I (and most my home DZ) was damned well touched last year when a friend from our DZ was killed skydiving in Florida. But I only had 55 jumps - I guess I should have checked with the sympathy police to see how I should really have felt & acted.

Quote

I think it's common knowledge that we wish good things to good, decent people who are going through hard times. No need to give "vibes" and other meaningless notions to strangers everytime something bad happens.

Of Course! We all know how supportive, well meaning and sympathic "strangers" are - in fact I see them gesture their sentiments to me all the time on crowded rush hour expressways... I think for the most part the community atmosphere was created here to make us much less strangers to one another.

Come on... It's the better side human nature to be neighborly & express support to those in the community in stressful situations

Despite the fact that some posts appear superficial and quite obviously irritate you, don't you really think most people here have good intentions with their supportive posts?

While it's not a form of expression that you or I may engage in ....what's the harm in it? -

Many times the condolences - even the "vibes" from the community - seem to be greatly appreciated by those receiving them.

Maybe they should send a batch of vibes your way just to see if all the love in this community doesn't change your mind on the subject.
Edited to be slightly more neighborly

[themitchyone 0]

I'm sure that many newbies spend plenty of time reading about risers vs. toggles as well as other threads to become safer jumpers whether or not there is a tragedy. It doesn't make most people's condolences any less sincere. I wholeheartedly disagree that this cheapens the loss. On the other hand... taking the time to count and post the number of those who didn't qualify to give condolences...

"If the Bible has taught us nothing else, and it hasn't, it's that girls should stick to girl's sports such as hot oil wrestling and foxy boxing." - Homer Simpson

[jraf 0]

I always care! May I have their rig?

jraf

Me Jungleman! Me have large Babalui.
Muff #3275

[somethinelse 0]

THAT'S REAL COLD MAN!

Your initial post seems insensitive and heartless... Is this because you meant your post to be
like a hook to reel people in to read on & post
OR
a real glimpse into the left side of your chest
to see the lump of ice that is really there?!

WOW!

[crwmike 0]

Quote

I don't think it is fair for you to generalize on this.
Outside their immediate family they don't care that much.... BULLSHIT!!!

I unfortunately had the experience of seeing a friend in ICU with his family and friends all around him. I considered him a friend and still do even though he is gone now. But I think it is a load of crap for you to speculate outside the person's immediate family that they don't care... BUDDY... there were about 15 people outside his immediate family crying their fuckin eyes out in that hospital.

Speculating? Hmmm, do you mean did I sit around and just kind of come up with this? No.

What experience with death are you bringing to this discussion? I've wrapped hundreds of bodies and worked with thousands of survivors. I just got home from work and spent most of my night working with the family who decided to withdraw life support from their family menber. There were 17 of them. Two were sincerely emotionally involved, the rest were there for ...other reasons. I still have hopes that people will be noble and caring ...but that so rarely is the case. I wish it wasn't so, but it is. I could be off base, but my conclusions are based on broad experience.

Now, unless you have a shitload of experience in dealing with death, you really don't have much to base your opinions on (almost like you were ...speculating?) ? Most people just can't deal with what lies behind the curtain. You're young, kid ...give it some time.

BSBD,

Michael

[sducoach 0]

Wrong,

If you love of the sport overrides your love for people and people in this sport, you need to adjust your perspective.

James 4:8

[Vallerina 2]

Quote

This entire issue is all about attention. Very few people are actually touched nor effected by the death of someone at their own DZ.

Almost 7 years ago, cancer took away one of my good friends during a camping trip that he was supposed to have gone with us on but had to miss out on. I cried alone in my room for a few hours at night with all of the lights off and listening to "Angel Standing By." I cried with my best friend at their church while we lit a candle for him. The hardest part about his loss was that he was only 17, and he was such an amazing person....brilliant, wanted to save endangered animals so he was going into marine biology, etc.

During this time I came across such attention seekers. A girl who had a "friend" die a year prior (she knew him for a total of a week before he died...and they had maybe talked to each other for 20 mins) started talking about her "friend" nonstop. A lot of people were comforting me, and she wanted that same comfort. She liked attention, and she saw that a few of us were getting a lot of "attention" because of our friendships with Nick.

Basically, it's called the human race. Try not to let it upset you too much. Character "flaws" are something that you can rarely change. If someone wants attention, that's not something that you're going to be able to fix by saying that it's bad they want attention. That's something they're going to have to want to change themselves.

I learned that 7 years ago. People will do desperate and seemingly disgusting things (exaggerating about the loss they feel for a death) for attention. It didn't affect the sadness and the sweetness of the memories that I have with Nick. Try not to let it affect you either.

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[PrairieDoug 0]

Quote

WHo are you to judge the way people feel and there reasons for feeling that way?

Agreed... How different individuals choose to respond to events like this is their own business. They should be able to do so without the rest of us doubting their motives or the validity of their feelings.

[happythoughts 0]

Quote

Speculating? Hmmm, do you mean did I sit around and just kind of come up with this? No.

Unless you have a PM from each and every person that posts in a vibes thread, then you are speculating on their motives.

In your experience, I am sure that you have found a number of motivations for peoples actions. I don't agree that you can select the most negative one and assign it to many people that you have not met or conversed with.

Some may have some selfish motive. Some will just be giving comfort and showing kindness. If a few are exhibiting a spark of the better side of human behaviour, I don't see the harm. I see it as a good.

Vibes threads are part of the spirit of skydiving. Friendship is a great part of this sport. Remove kindness from this site and it will become like other rusting internet dumps.

[cocheese 0]

Quote

Wrong,
If you love of the sport overrides your love for people and people in this sport, you need to adjust your perspective.

Wrong,
We're not saying the love for the sport overrides the love for the people. Read better.
We're saying, we don't quit jumping when someone dies.
So do you quit driving a car when a friend dies in a car accident ?

[wildblue 7]

Quote

So do you quit driving a car when a friend dies in a car accident ?

Bad example. Driving is almost a required activity, jumping is not. Some people do quit jumping when a friend dies.

it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality

[crwmike 0]

Quote

Quote

Speculating? Hmmm, do you mean did I sit around and just kind of come up with this? No.

Unless you have a PM from each and every person that posts in a vibes thread, then you are speculating on their motives.

In your experience, I am sure that you have found a number of motivations for peoples actions. I don't agree that you can select the most negative one and assign it to many people that you have not met or conversed with.

Some may have some selfish motive. Some will just be giving comfort and showing kindness. If a few are exhibiting a spark of the better side of human behaviour, I don't see the harm. I see it as a good.

Vibes threads are part of the spirit of skydiving. Friendship is a great part of this sport. Remove kindness from this site and it will become like other rusting internet dumps.

Dude, I made no comment about the 'vibes' thread and wasn't referring to the .com universe.

Michael

[Conundrum 1]

These fatalities may be preventable yes, but that does not mean that lives of friends and loved one are not being lost. I'm sorry you are getting "tired" of seeing people dying, but it just is part of the sport. People make mistakes and unfortunetly, sometimes it proves fatal.

Sounds pretty heartless to say your tired of it, though.

edit: or maybe I just haven't been around long enough yet to become 'numb' to my friends dying.

[diverdriver 6]

Quote

These fatalities may be preventable yes, but that does not mean that lives of friends and loved one are not being lost. I'm sorry you are getting "tired" of seeing people dying, but it just is part of the sport. People make mistakes and unfortunetly, sometimes it proves fatal.

Sounds pretty heartless to say your tired of it, though.

And it's just as heartles to say "it's just part of the sport." It does not have to be if it's preventable. And that's the point.

I hadn't made my first jump when I knew my first aquaintence die in the sport. I had flown jumpers for two months and was in my FJC the day that happened. I made my first jump a month later and kept jumping after that. We learned from the fatality and moved on.

Chris Schindler
www.diverdriver.com
ATP/D-19012
FB #4125

[Conundrum 1]

Quote

And it's just as heartles to say "it's just part of the sport." It does not have to be if it's preventable. And that's the point.

No not really, it IS part of the sport, it's what happens, and will continue to happen. Saying you are "tired of fatalities" becausde they happen all the time, is heartless; stating the fact that it happens in this sport, is not.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

This accident was preventable and it's perfectly understandable to hear someone say "I'm tired of these fatalities" as education and putting the right mind set into people's heads can prevent this sort of thing happening. The disturbing part about this thread is that some people feel it's inappropriate for other people (especially low-timers) to offer condolences assuming that the only reason why we offer condolences is to bring attention to ourselves. And to that I call bullshit.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[ianmdrennan 2]

Give it more time. When you read incident, after incident that reads EXACTLY the same, just the names change, you'll understand the "tiredness" the original poster is referring to. Wait till it happens to a couple of your friends (normally small canopies + insufficient training)

I, however, prefer to call it frustration. I get frustrated on how we continue to say "this stuff happens" (Yes I know it does) but to me a double mal is "stuff happening", a poorly trained pilot hitting the ground and killing themselves isn't "stuff happening" it's a problem we can MINIMIZE (we'll never eliminate it). If a highly trained pilot fraps in, fine, they knew the risks and understood them. They pushed the envelope too far and paid the price. That's progression. Progression is NOT reinventing the wheel over and over again cause "you're a special pilot".

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[peregrinerose 0]

Quote

I just said Fly Free and Blues to her... I don't think that is being mellow dramatic... Or am I not one of the people you are talking about?

Aparently those of us with under 200 jumps or students are not allowed to feel sorry for other people's loss and are supposed to be emotionless drones. One can express condolences without having any desire to be at the center of drama.

Jen

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[peregrinerose 0]

Quote

Two were sincerely emotionally involved, the rest were there for ...other reasons. I still have hopes that people will be noble and caring ...but that so rarely is the case. I wish it wasn't so, but it is. I could be off base, but my conclusions are based on broad experience.

Isn't it good to know that there is an emotional psychic out there who can tap into a person's heart and know exactly what they are feeling even though they may have a hard time expressing themselves or does not do so in a way that others read easily?

Jen who wept her eyes out in private when my grandfather died, but played stoic oldest granddaughter for everyone else to lean on when anyone was around. Guess that makes me heartless and unemotional.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[skybill 22]

Hi KB,
Tired of these fatalities? Sure, who isn't. Quite a thread ya' got going here. Jacked up a few people for sure. The sport is "DANGEROUS!!!" We know that and proceed anyway. We feel that with good gear, good training, good proceedures and our own good abilities we will prevail. We have good statistics, good days at the dz and then wham something happens and we realize that inspite of it all we are still "vulnerable!!!!!!!!!!!" In spite of all proper prior planning, no matter how well we cover all our bets and bases, fate is still the hunter.
Some people wear their vulnerability on their sleeve and some may put up a calloused front. You've seen 'em both. After it's all over, you have to move on.

SCR-2034, SCS-680

III%,
Deli-out