Parrafin on frayed lines..

[steve1 5]

I was reading that it might be a good idea to put house hold parafin on frayed lines. I've never seen anyone do this. Anyone out there tried this?

[RiggerLee 61]

I recall one canopy that I think this was done to. It was a bat wing with light weight vectran lines. He got an enordanent number of jumps out of that line set. I want to say close to a thousand. I think we changed break lines once. Part of it may have been the fact that that it was a slow opening canopy that the slider came down very slow on. He always pulled the slider down.

Will the wax actualy lubracate the slider and the break lines? Waxes are used to lubracate drilling into metals like alumanum. Will it protect the fibers from abrasion or atract dust and grit to them? We tryed spraying sillacone and shit on lines but I think it picked so much grit up off the cement floor that it did more harm then good. The lines wore out faster. Does it actually slow the damage or does it just hide it and make it look pretty?

Lee

Lee
lee@velocitysportswear.com
www.velocitysportswear.com

[Southern_Man 0]

I'm a total noob and know next to nothing about parachute equipment so take that into account.

I've used parafin quite a bit as lubrication on fishing equipment to help the fly line slip through the guides better. It is quite effective in that context, have no idea if it would translate to this one.

I'm not sure why you would put it on lines that were already frayed?

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[riggerrob 643]

If suspension lines are already frayed, it is too late for parrafin to improve matters.
Parrafin will make them LOOK prettier, but will actually accelerate wear by hold grit against the lines.

[steve1 5]

Maybe this is old school rigging. I read this in Gary Lewis's para-commander handbook. He said not to use bees wax because it would pick up dirt. I don't know how much better paraffin would be. I imagine it would still pick up some dirt. The reason for waxing was to make something like steering lines last longer. The author recommended doing this every ten jumps or so. Again, I've never seen anyone do this. If noone does this any more, there's probably a good reason. I appreciate your advice....

[LongWayToFall 0]

Sort of like motorcycle chains, lots of lubes are sticky because they last longer, but in reality they just attract dirt and destroy the o rings faster. WD40 is the best. Also something worth noting, is that rope gets weaker when it is wet, I would think that wax dissolved into it might have the same effect.

[councilman24 37]

It is VERY old school. Soap, bee's wax, usually nobody bothered finding parafin. It was also used to get sliders to come down faster/easier on dacron lines.

I'd forget this for modern canopies and lines.

On your Strato Cloud? go for it!

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[riggerpaul 1]

Quote

It is VERY old school. Soap, bee's wax, usually nobody bothered finding parafin. It was also used to get sliders to come down faster/easier on dacron lines.

I'd forget this for modern canopies and lines.

On your Strato Cloud? go for it!

I don't know, so I'll ask you, Terry - when did lines appear with factory coatings?

(the following is not directed at Terry, but to the thread in general)

It seems to me that modern lines already have all the coating they need.

If they are showing wear, well, it is because they are wearing, that's all.

Hiding that fact doesn't seem to me to be the best idea.

Observe the wear, and when they are worn enough, replace them.

[councilman24 37]

Boy, you think I'm some sort of expert or something? I'm definantely not!

We had the dacron lines for ever. There were some flat woven lines but most were round braided. The the ski rope micolines in 500 and 750 (or which ever numbers the manufacturers chose to use.) I don't know that any of those are actually coated. The material itself as well as the fibers seem to be slicker. (My theory is that we don't anywhere near as many tension knots with microline as we do with dacron, because the knots slip out.)

That's about the extent of my knowledge. These days I would certainly defer to the cordage manufacturers and the canopy manufacturers for their suggestions. It obviously is still evolving and isn't a development surely isn't finished. We had kevlar in the 80's. Too brittle. Now we have variations on that theme with HMA and Vectran (close to kevlar) But nothing is perfect.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[riggerpaul 1]

Well, maybe not an expert, but I know you have a longer historical perspective on rigging things than I do.

Though I've been around since the early 80s, I only started rigging officially in 2002.

From your posts I reckon that you have a clearer recollection of what was around when.

Anyway, I remember flat braided Dacron from the early 80s. As you say, I don't think it was coated, but I am not certain.

I used to use some wax to keep the ends of my CYPRES-cord pull ups from fraying, but now I usually use Dritz Fray-Check for that.

That's about the only use I have ever really had for wax in my kit. (Oh yes, SuperTack is waxed, but I don't make it myself.)

Using wax to un-fuzz lines would seem to be hiding a problem to me, not solving it.

[GLIDEANGLE 1]

In addition to the above mentioned issues, there are the simple questions:

How will the paraffin affect canopy deployment in HOT or COLD weather? In freezing weather will the lines stiffen? Will descent of the slider be affected by the wax at extremes of temperature?

How will the wax and rubber bands get along? Will the wax interact chemically with the rubber?

What kind of mess is the wax going to create on the inside of the main container / outside of the d-bag? I think of this from the perspective of Texas summers with temps >100F. If this mess gets started, how will you clean it up?

Will the wax make the lines gooey to handle (pack) in hot weather?

The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

[RiggerLee 61]

You're makeing me laugh. Some body gave McCullum a block of wax once to keep in his riggers kit/tackle box. It was in the upper tray. He left the kit in his trunk in the sun on a nice warm, 103 F, summers day here in Texas. It melted and filled the tray like water. Got on every thing includeing a nice long soft bodkin, the kind made from 550 lb type III line. Totally soaked it. It was stiff. He could move it around and bend it like a wire. He used to use it to push down through pilot chute to pull pull up cords through instead of a gun rod. He lover that thing. If it got too soft with use... just warm it up and let it cool again. I think he's still useing it.

Help me out with history.

Didn't SE have a problem with some line they tryed to use on 26' lopo's. They tryed to go to a coated line but it was a water solubole coating an if it got wet would soffen and then glue the lines togather when it dried.

Wasn't there also a simular problem with some of the early kevlar lines they tryed to use on squares?

Am I remembering this right? What year was that? That should kind of bracket the early use of condition R line. Early original 26' lopo, shortly after the first squares were tso'd with Kevlar?

Lee

Lee
lee@velocitysportswear.com
www.velocitysportswear.com

[steve1 5]

Quote

Sort of like motorcycle chains, lots of lubes are sticky because they last longer, but in reality they just attract dirt and destroy the o rings faster. WD40 is the best. Also something worth noting, is that rope gets weaker when it is wet, I would think that wax dissolved into it might have the same effect.

..........................................................................
On my bows (compounds and recurves) I wax the string, when they are frayed. It definitely makes them last longer.

But bows aren't parachutes. From the posts so far, I'd say waxing could cause problems.....

[Gene03 0]

+1 on what RiggerRob and Councilman24 said.

P.S.
Paraffin or beeswax DOES NOT "attract" dust or dirt, it just makes sure it stays on the lines.

Besides it being really old school it was never a good idea.

“The only fool bigger than the person who knows it all is the person who argues with him.

Stanislaw Jerzy Lec quotes (Polish writer, poet and satirist 1906-1966)

[Martini 0]

Well, here's a whole 'nother way to look at this. The abrasive particles that adhere to a substance like wax on a line won't really hurt the lines directly, the wax will keep the abrasives on the outside, away from the line. Unfortunately everything that the abrasive coated line contacts will be abraded. Just like sandpaper, the paper doesn't wear quickly but everything the abrasive rubs against is affected. Like other lines, grommets, fabric etc.

Sometimes you eat the bear..............

[riggerpaul 1]

Quote

Well, here's a whole 'nother way to look at this. The abrasive particles that adhere to a substance like wax on a line won't really hurt the lines directly, the wax will keep the abrasives on the outside, away from the line. Unfortunately everything that the abrasive coated line contacts will be abraded. Just like sandpaper, the paper doesn't wear quickly but everything the abrasive rubs against is affected. Like other lines, grommets, fabric etc.

When the line slides across a hard point, like a slider grommet or a steering line guide ring, the abrasive materials that are stuck on the line will be driven into the line. The wax will melt some from the friction and be wicked into the line as well, carrying some of that abrasive material with it.

If a line is worn to where you want to hide the condition with wax, maybe it is time to replace the line.

[popsjumper 2]

I think the only ones who would recommend using paraffin and beeswax would be paraffin and beeswax salesmen.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[ruthers 0]

I was doing some research about possible wax degradation of high strength fibres after a friend experienced a total line (dyneema lines manufactured by Liros) failure on her paraglider (thankfully successfully deployed her reserve). Subsequent strength testing by the manufacturer indicated only about 25% breaking strength in the lines (i.e. they had lost 75% of the rated strength!)

I was interested to discover that parrafin oil (which seems to be a fairly generic term for a light mineral oil?) is used as a solvent in the production of spectra.

I never got around to doing any testing to determine if the archery wax which said friend had applied to her lines to prevent fuzzing, which included parrafin wax as a constituent, had perhaps contributed to the line failure.

Incredibly, the manufacturer just wrote back to say "obviously applying this product has caused the damage" but they never did any proper before/after testing or experiments!

High strength fibres such as kevlar, vectran, spectra (UHMWPE) are usually remarkably resistant to chemical attack by acids or alkali. But if parrafin oil is used as a solvent in production of spectra, using it for lubricating spectra line doesn't sound like a great idea to me.

AFAIK, Spectra feels waxy to touch mainly because of the inherent chemical structure of the material, not because of added wax.

Anyway, I wouldn't put ANY chemical on my lines without recommendation from the line material manufacturer.

[JerryBaumchen 1,451]

Hi ruthers,

Quote

Incredibly, the manufacturer just wrote back to say "obviously applying this product has caused the damage" but they never did any proper before/after testing or experiments!

Some ( unknown to the mfr ) person puts 'something' on a product of theirs ( in a manner unknown ) and you expect the mfr to then start a bunch of expensive testing?

I would have responded in the same way.

JerryBaumchen

PS) However, that is a very unusual incident.

[ruthers 0]

yes, I suppose that did sound a bit whiney, apologies. On the other hand, if this was a case involving a certified aircraft with its wing falling off or if the incident had instead been a fatality, I would have thought that a detailed investigation would be carried out to determine if the wax had definitely degraded the material or if it was coincidence and there might be another defect (potentially latent in other aircraft) to blame.

The testing wouldn't cost much, it could be done on single fibres at loads of grams. I was intending to propose it as a possible research project for materials science students at a local university, but my friend passed away and I lost motivation.

Having found the information about spectra and parrafin, and with the thread topic of parrafin on frayed lines, I thought it was worth posting.

Cheers,
Hamish