Shark 0 #76 September 21, 2004 QuoteI'm thinking it's an A license requirement because if you don't have a license, don't you have to have some kind of AAD? So, knowing how to turn it on, would fall under the self jumpmastering skills. Knowing the gear and all that. I concur. I would not clear anyone to self jumpmaster if they have never turned an AAD on or off. Typically we show them starting on Cat. A and even have them turn it on themselves during their gear check on following categories. I demonstrate this during the FJC. Yes, they'll probably forget by the time we gear up, but all the instructors reinforce these skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Damion 0 #77 September 21, 2004 it may be annoying for someone as knowledgable as you but your correct answer probably saved his life, if it was correct. :P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #78 September 21, 2004 I had to ask for a reminder on how to turn a cypres on at about 130 odd jumps. I hadn't jumped one for over a hundred jumps and about a year... even when I was a student most of the time it was already on for me. I know I knew how to turn it on while I was a student - hell I was right about what I thought the turn on proc. was a year later... but I still had to ask to be sure. Self supervision means you should be capable of doing your own gear check. For many that did not include a cypres - they're not mandatory after all. On the other hand if you jump something you should know how to use it. That goes for reverse risers, digital alti's, RSL's or cypres's... know thine gear or don't jump. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cajun 0 #79 September 21, 2004 I had over 100 jumps before I ever saw a cypress. We as students had FXCs. So I had to ask too when I saw my first one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JRock 0 #80 September 21, 2004 People.... the point I was trying to make was a person got turned loose to skydive who did not know how to do a proper gear check. THAT FRIGHTENS ME... since skydiving can kill you. I think it should be mandatory that you be able to do a full gear check and have a complete understanding of how the rig works before graduating. Call me an ASS for wanting to make people safe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vallerina 2 #81 September 21, 2004 Quoteskydive who did not know how to do a proper gear check. Actually, they did a proper gear check. They could tell the Cypres wasn't on. They checked it. They asked for further instruction to make sure it was turned on.There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JRock 0 #82 September 21, 2004 Actually no they didn't. They asked me to do it. MY POINT IS THEY SHOULD ALREADY KNOW IT!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunshine 2 #83 September 21, 2004 Dude, you're not an AFF instructor. Let it go. Your self proclaimed safety attitude is getting old. ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JRock 0 #84 September 21, 2004 You don't have to be an AFF instructor to have f'in common sense. Sorry my compassion for people's safety bothers you Sunny. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vallerina 2 #85 September 21, 2004 QuoteSorry my compassion for people's safety bothers you Sunny. It's not compassion. What bothers some people here is that it sounds self-righteous. Nobody is perfect. I've been embarrassed in skydiving because I didn't know something that I should know. However, I wasn't too embarrassed not to ask questions to people I know would answer them in a non-judgmental way. I'm not perfect. I don't know everything. I don't feel bad about asking questions even when it's something that I should know. Nobody should feel bad if they don't know something....especially after just a few overwhelming jumps.There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icon134 0 #86 September 21, 2004 I think JRock's point is that a gear check is not possible if someone doesn't know how to activate an AAD... Others argue that if someone is able to recognize how a correctly activated Cypres looks is sufficient to complete a gear check... (among other things...) So lets agree to disagree... and leave it be... Off topic but... Personally, My logic for having an AAD is like buying insurance... you have it but hope you never have to use it... (any kind... life, car, homeowners... etc..) Scott -----------------------------------------------------------Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shark 0 #87 September 21, 2004 QuoteI had to ask for a reminder on how to turn a cypres on at about 130 odd jumps. Nothing wrong with doing that. Ask if you do not remember or have the knowledge. Some people risk their safety trying to remain cool by not asking for help. QuoteSelf supervision means you should be capable of doing your own gear check. For many that did not include a cypres - they're not mandatory after all. On the other hand if you jump something you should know how to use it. That goes for reverse risers, digital alti's, RSL's or cypres's... know thine gear or don't jump. If you do not posses an A license or equivalent you are considered a student. Until you are off student status you must jump a rig equipped with an AAD. If you are a student you should know how to turn and AAD on/off. Shark D-24499, AFF-I Skydive Elsinore Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeyRamone 0 #88 September 21, 2004 The place he/she took the afp class should be shut down forever. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 1 #89 September 21, 2004 You're funny Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MakeItHappen 15 #90 September 21, 2004 Quote Like how to turn on their CYPRES? This absolutely made me cringe. An individual about to jump,( 5 jumps off of student status) asked me to show them how to turn on the CYPRES. Does this bother anyone else? Lighten up on JRock. You might be interested to know that 'Demonstrate the understanding and use of an automatic activation device.' is a specific requirement on the A license proficiency card. It is also a TLO for Cat D. JRock is right that the newly licensed jumper should know how to operate the AAD. [Let's assume that the NG had the same type of AAD on student status.] The thing is that people will forget some of the things they did know while on student status. A week or month goes by and some of the info is forgotten. If you are faced with a NG asking this same question, do not fire up the AAD for them. Show them how to do it. Let them press all the buttons. Teach them to fish, do not give them a fish. For the CYPRES, the turn on/off procedure is deliberately obtuse. Helmet Cloth wanted a device that could not turn on or off easily. This was because previous AADs were inadvertently turned on/off and the most inappropriate times. The CYPRES activation method is something that does not relate to everyday experiences. Most other devices have a simple on-off switch, like the light switch on your wall. Since the CYPRES has this complicated procedure and new jumpers do not know about the history of AADs and their problems, one can expect an occasional new jumper not to remember how to boot up the CYPRES.. Make It Happen Parachute History DiveMaker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattjw916 2 #91 September 21, 2004 QuoteLike how to turn on their CYPRES? This absolutely made me cringe. An individual about to jump,( 5 jumps off of student status) asked me to show them how to turn on the CYPRES. Does this bother anyone else? Just another example of how hyper-critical some people are at DZs... it's not like you would die if you jumped without your Cypres on, no one should bet their life on it working anyway. Try passing along the knowledge you have with a smile, it goes a lot further than, "WTF, DIDN'T YOU LEARN THIS IN AFF!!!" or whatever. I had a kind packer/rigger explain the operation of the Cypres at some point during my AFF progression when I asked how it works since they always seemed to be turned on already by the time I grabbed a student rig to jump with.NSCR-2376, SCR-15080 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #92 September 21, 2004 Quote For the CYPRES, the turn on/off procedure is deliberately obtuse. Helmet Cloth wanted a device that could not turn on or off easily. This was because previous AADs were inadvertently turned on/off and the most inappropriate times. The CYPRES activation method is something that does not relate to everyday experiences. Most other devices have a simple on-off switch, like the light switch on your wall. Since the CYPRES has this complicated procedure and new jumpers do not know about the history of AADs and their problems, one can expect an occasional new jumper not to remember how to boot up the CYPRES. I had to turn one off for the first time this weekend, along with setting the LZ offset. The DZ could be stupid and say, "you should have learned this in your AFF program." Of course they did not. What surprises me is that the Cypress resets to 0 after every jump, so you have to power it off, then on again to the offset. Either that forces you to do it every time, or it leads you to forgetting. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chopchop 0 #93 September 21, 2004 QuoteI had to turn one off for the first time this weekend, along with setting the LZ offset. The DZ could be stupid and say, "you should have learned this in your AFF program." Of course they did not. Ahhhhh... Hollister.. nice dz.. BTW.. my two cents.. JRock.. don't be alarmed when AFF grads forget some of the stuff they learned.. they are still students and still learning.. as we all are.. Haven't you ever forgotten anything you once were taught? It's normal.. sometimes people need a little more repetition. chopchop gotta go... Plaything needs a spanking.. Lotsa Pictures Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
