BillyVance 35 #26 October 12, 2004 QuoteQuoteIf there is going to be a forum for gays and lesbians then there needs to be a forum for heterosexuals. Also one for Bisexuals. Also one for bestiality. also one for pedophiles. Am I leaving anyone out? Hermaphrodites? --Art How about: Transsexuals Cross Dressers Rednecks Stupid Bigots Immature Squabbling Punks Okay, I'm getting carried away... For what it's worth, that Skydivers With Disabilities forum was my idea. I proposed a forum for Deaf and Blind Skydivers to Sangiro, and he expanded it to include all general and rare disabilities. In the end, it worked out great for different reasons, but not for the one reason I had in mind, as only a handful of deaf skydivers actually get in there... but I'll take the credit anyway... Blue Skies Billy"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflynNicki 0 #27 October 12, 2004 doesn't that simpy re-enforce the whole idea of segregating...i thought gays/lesbians were trying to get away from that and move forward...a forum specifically designed for homosexuals seems like back tracking. just my thoughts.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ PMS#269 Team Dirty Sanchez#41 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumperconway 0 #28 October 12, 2004 Also one for bestiality. Would that be called Clay's Forum? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #29 October 12, 2004 QuoteIf there is going to be a forum for gays and lesbians then there needs to be a forum for heterosexuals. Also one for Bisexuals. Also one for bestiality. also one for pedophiles. Am I leaving anyone out? ME! ME! How about one for those of us "Not Gettin' Any At All?"My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kinney29 0 #30 October 12, 2004 I think you all scared jumpinbunny away Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #31 October 12, 2004 I know I know I was too mean. I am sorry I shouldn't have made fun of her suggestion. It was a well meant suggestion. I am sorry. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunshine 2 #32 October 12, 2004 QuoteYou're so gay. ----------------------------------------------------------- fuck you. If thats what it takes to get you over your gay problem....OK!! ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #33 October 12, 2004 QuoteIf there is going to be a forum for gays and lesbians then there needs to be a forum for heterosexuals. Nope, you're wrong. Just like there is no forum for men. Others may come to DZ.com for other reasons, I come here because I'm a SKYDIVER.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #34 October 12, 2004 Interesting question: USPA stats show that around 23-25% of skydivers are women... Anyone want to take a WAG estimate what the % of GAY skydivers are? I'd venture maybe 7%...? What is the % of Gays in total?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #35 October 12, 2004 QuoteInteresting question: Anyone want to take a WAG estimate what the % of GAY skydivers are? I'd venture maybe 7%...? What is the % of Gays in total? Knowing what freefly suits look like, who can say? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 1 #36 October 12, 2004 QuoteKnowing what freefly suits look like, who can say? Have you ever taken a good look at rw suits Especially the colorful ones? Take freefly pants and a top for instance. Which out fit would you walk into the bar with? That Psychodelic jumpsuit with disco tubing? Or the Bell bottoms? I rest my case Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tunaplanet 0 #37 October 12, 2004 Gays should not receive nor deserve their own forum. The only exception should be lesbians and that should only be allowed if they're both hot and post pics. I'm all for gay marraige...as long as both women are cute. Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sangiro 26 #38 October 12, 2004 QuoteI agree. I think you're wrong. This comes up from time to time so let me address it again here. It has nothing to do with fractioning of forums. It has everything to do with online communities and what makes them work and what not. Remember this: audiences scale, communities don't. Communities rely on back and forth interaction where people maintain "connections" with others. More than that they also need to understand and track the connections, and the nature of those connections, between other members in the community. The reality is that once the group gets too large for people to maintain at least some form of understanding of the connections around them it falls apart. It becomes an audience - like television, where communication is one way. In online communities it often becomes an audience for the loudest most obnoxious individuals. People's first reaction is to resist more groups, but they don't really know why. Is it because it is in the best interest of the community? If that's what you think, you've simply been proven wrong many times over and it's time to re-think. Nobody can point to a single large online community that actually survived. They all die. While most people seem to think that everyone should have access to everything, that's actually not the best way to ensure the longevity of the community either. It is a very healthy thing for communities to set up barriers to entry. Some larger community sites will only accept members for the first 5 days of each month and then they shut down their membership! Barriers can be established in many ways. Whichever way you choose, unless you find a way to reward and protect your "members in good standing" you will simply end up alienating exactly that group by allowing their conversations to be drowned out by the noise of the masses, which inevitably happens in single large forums. This almost always happens online due to pervasiveness of technology, anonymity and lack of personal accountability. The interest of the individual does not come above that of the community. Not in real life, and not here either. So, if 50 people on here wanted to seriously talk about skysurfing, there is a very strong argument that says: Even if they have only 10 discussions for every 10,000 in The Bonfire, there may actually be more value in those 10 discussions that in the other 10,000. In fact there almost certainly will! That has nothing to do with fragmentation. That has to do with determining value and "discriminating" (ooh.. he said discriminating!) in favor of what holds real value. There will always be people who shout "look another group!" or "ooh a clique". Those people usually have not spent much time trying to understand the nature of online communities. They're putting new wine into old bags. In makes sense to allow people with similar interests to build their own community and it makes sense to protect them from the dribble that comes from bored computer users. Unfortunately the skydiving community as a single entity has long surpassed the critical mass of being an effective community. We still desperately hang on to some of the benefits we get from trying to act like a "community". And we so desperately don't want to let go of the word! I've linked the 3 articles below before but I'll do it again for those who are interested. These are not held up to be the definitive and final word on the subject. They are simply the most accurate and concise summaries in my opinion of something that I have experienced on this site for more than 12 years and for many years before that on the internet in general. A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy Communities, Audiences, and Scale. Social Software and the Politics of Groups Good night! Safe swoops Sangiro Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites crwmike 0 #39 October 13, 2004 QuotePersonaly I fail to see how someone's sexualy orientation affects their ability to skydive, but then I think the fractioning of the forums is a bad thing to begin with. Agree with the first part and include gender biases. 'Fractioning' the forums is both good and bad. More good than bad, in this case. Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Squeak 17 #40 October 13, 2004 You never cease to impress the hell out of me SangiroYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites justaflygirl 0 #41 October 13, 2004 QuoteYou never cease to impress the hell out of me Sangiro Ditto...I hope to meet you one day, Sangiro. Your a very wise man! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites flyangel2 2 #42 October 13, 2004 QuoteDitto...I hope to meet you one day, Sangiro. Your a very wise man! You say that now, but just wait till you are standing there talking to a big Wal-Mart Smily FaceMay your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites captain1 0 #43 October 13, 2004 I am very much for a lesbian forum. There is nothing more exciting than seeing a woman buried between another woman's legs, especially when it is on your own bed. I would love to review the chats. The gay men can have their own forum. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites beowulf 1 #44 October 13, 2004 QuoteQuoteIf there is going to be a forum for gays and lesbians then there needs to be a forum for heterosexuals. Nope, you're wrong. Just like there is no forum for men. Others may come to DZ.com for other reasons, I come here because I'm a SKYDIVER. umm that was a joke. I wasn't actually serious about that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tunaplanet 0 #45 October 13, 2004 QuoteThere is nothing more exciting than seeing a woman buried between another woman's legs Depends on the women. Are we talking porno movie women or the lesbians that look like Popeye? Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites captain1 0 #46 October 13, 2004 Well, how do you define Popeye? Is that a facial descripition or a between the leg description. Many women who participate in porno are lesbians. Anyways, yes, the women are good looking. Matter of fact, one of the girls is from Crystal River and the other from Jax. Maybe I will be with them in Z-hills on Sunday or maybe not. However, we will be in Orlando Friday so we might get down that far and you can judge for yourself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bob.dino 1 #47 October 13, 2004 Nicely put. Much clearer than my half-formed mental meanderings on the subject. I've seen it happen many times. Most recently with b3ta.com - most of the regulars that made it a community have moved on to another site on which you can't post for the first week of your membership. 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tunaplanet 0 #37 October 12, 2004 Gays should not receive nor deserve their own forum. The only exception should be lesbians and that should only be allowed if they're both hot and post pics. I'm all for gay marraige...as long as both women are cute. Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sangiro 26 #38 October 12, 2004 QuoteI agree. I think you're wrong. This comes up from time to time so let me address it again here. It has nothing to do with fractioning of forums. It has everything to do with online communities and what makes them work and what not. Remember this: audiences scale, communities don't. Communities rely on back and forth interaction where people maintain "connections" with others. More than that they also need to understand and track the connections, and the nature of those connections, between other members in the community. The reality is that once the group gets too large for people to maintain at least some form of understanding of the connections around them it falls apart. It becomes an audience - like television, where communication is one way. In online communities it often becomes an audience for the loudest most obnoxious individuals. People's first reaction is to resist more groups, but they don't really know why. Is it because it is in the best interest of the community? If that's what you think, you've simply been proven wrong many times over and it's time to re-think. Nobody can point to a single large online community that actually survived. They all die. While most people seem to think that everyone should have access to everything, that's actually not the best way to ensure the longevity of the community either. It is a very healthy thing for communities to set up barriers to entry. Some larger community sites will only accept members for the first 5 days of each month and then they shut down their membership! Barriers can be established in many ways. Whichever way you choose, unless you find a way to reward and protect your "members in good standing" you will simply end up alienating exactly that group by allowing their conversations to be drowned out by the noise of the masses, which inevitably happens in single large forums. This almost always happens online due to pervasiveness of technology, anonymity and lack of personal accountability. The interest of the individual does not come above that of the community. Not in real life, and not here either. So, if 50 people on here wanted to seriously talk about skysurfing, there is a very strong argument that says: Even if they have only 10 discussions for every 10,000 in The Bonfire, there may actually be more value in those 10 discussions that in the other 10,000. In fact there almost certainly will! That has nothing to do with fragmentation. That has to do with determining value and "discriminating" (ooh.. he said discriminating!) in favor of what holds real value. There will always be people who shout "look another group!" or "ooh a clique". Those people usually have not spent much time trying to understand the nature of online communities. They're putting new wine into old bags. In makes sense to allow people with similar interests to build their own community and it makes sense to protect them from the dribble that comes from bored computer users. Unfortunately the skydiving community as a single entity has long surpassed the critical mass of being an effective community. We still desperately hang on to some of the benefits we get from trying to act like a "community". And we so desperately don't want to let go of the word! I've linked the 3 articles below before but I'll do it again for those who are interested. These are not held up to be the definitive and final word on the subject. They are simply the most accurate and concise summaries in my opinion of something that I have experienced on this site for more than 12 years and for many years before that on the internet in general. A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy Communities, Audiences, and Scale. Social Software and the Politics of Groups Good night! Safe swoops Sangiro Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crwmike 0 #39 October 13, 2004 QuotePersonaly I fail to see how someone's sexualy orientation affects their ability to skydive, but then I think the fractioning of the forums is a bad thing to begin with. Agree with the first part and include gender biases. 'Fractioning' the forums is both good and bad. More good than bad, in this case. Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #40 October 13, 2004 You never cease to impress the hell out of me SangiroYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justaflygirl 0 #41 October 13, 2004 QuoteYou never cease to impress the hell out of me Sangiro Ditto...I hope to meet you one day, Sangiro. Your a very wise man! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #42 October 13, 2004 QuoteDitto...I hope to meet you one day, Sangiro. Your a very wise man! You say that now, but just wait till you are standing there talking to a big Wal-Mart Smily FaceMay your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
captain1 0 #43 October 13, 2004 I am very much for a lesbian forum. There is nothing more exciting than seeing a woman buried between another woman's legs, especially when it is on your own bed. I would love to review the chats. The gay men can have their own forum. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #44 October 13, 2004 QuoteQuoteIf there is going to be a forum for gays and lesbians then there needs to be a forum for heterosexuals. Nope, you're wrong. Just like there is no forum for men. Others may come to DZ.com for other reasons, I come here because I'm a SKYDIVER. umm that was a joke. I wasn't actually serious about that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunaplanet 0 #45 October 13, 2004 QuoteThere is nothing more exciting than seeing a woman buried between another woman's legs Depends on the women. Are we talking porno movie women or the lesbians that look like Popeye? Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
captain1 0 #46 October 13, 2004 Well, how do you define Popeye? Is that a facial descripition or a between the leg description. Many women who participate in porno are lesbians. Anyways, yes, the women are good looking. Matter of fact, one of the girls is from Crystal River and the other from Jax. Maybe I will be with them in Z-hills on Sunday or maybe not. However, we will be in Orlando Friday so we might get down that far and you can judge for yourself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 1 #47 October 13, 2004 Nicely put. Much clearer than my half-formed mental meanderings on the subject. I've seen it happen many times. Most recently with b3ta.com - most of the regulars that made it a community have moved on to another site on which you can't post for the first week of your membership. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
