billvon 3,080 #1 October 21, 2004 I went to a talk at Convergence 2004 (automotive electronics show) that discussed Toyota's THS II system, the hybrid system they are using in the 2004 Prius. They are seeing tank-to-wheel efficiencies of 37%, which I think is remarkable. (Typical ICE driven car is around 14% efficient.) What's even more interesting is that the well-to-wheel efficiency is around 32%, compared to 29% for Toyota's first generation fuel cell vehicle. (They are hoping for 42% in a future fuel cell vehicle.) Imagine the impact to oil usage (and gas prices) if even half the vehicles in the US had efficiency figures like the THS II - and no breakthroughs, hydrogen infrastructures or new nuclear power plants are required to get there. It's appearing in Toyota and Ford SUV's soon as well. Pretty cool technology. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #2 October 21, 2004 Nifty..... I love that kind of stuff. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chaoskitty 0 #3 October 21, 2004 Can they put it in a V-8 Tundra crew cab? I dont like my gas bill much.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumper03 0 #4 October 21, 2004 QuoteCan they put it in a V-8 Tundra crew cab? I dont like my gas bill much.. You go froggy girl....Scars remind us that the past is real Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #5 October 21, 2004 Quote Imagine the impact to oil usage (and gas prices) if even half the vehicles in the US had efficiency figures like the THS II - and no breakthroughs, hydrogen infrastructures or new nuclear power plants are required to get there. It's appearing in Toyota and Ford SUV's soon as well. Pretty cool technology. Apparently Toyota has sold the technology to Chevy, but they are unable to replicate the success. Everything is twice the weight - battery pack, engine, generator, etc. It may be a while before we see them coming out with something as efficient at the THS II. Also, a car dealer friend said that Honda is coming out with an Accord hybrid soon._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,080 #6 October 21, 2004 > Can they put it in a V-8 Tundra crew cab? I dont like my gas bill much.. Yep, it works on any vehicle. The Tundra would likely become a 6 cylinder, but with more power overall (since the electric motor would give you most of the power.) Even on the Prius, a small car, the electric motor provides 67 of the 109 horsepower available at low speeds. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viking 0 #7 October 21, 2004 kinda makes me wonder just how much stuff the oil companies have locked up in a safe. How long do you think it will take us to get to 100% fuel cell cars? Something like the cars in Demolition man?I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver My God has a bigger dick than your god -George Carlin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chaoskitty 0 #8 October 21, 2004 Quotekinda makes me wonder just how much stuff the oil companies have locked up in a safe. How long do you think it will take us to get to 100% fuel cell cars? Something like the cars in Demolition man? Who knows? Probably a long time. Its the evolution of transportation, so its inevitable. Think about how much society used to rely on railroads for transpo? Some industries still do, but the general population, not so much. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,080 #9 October 21, 2004 > kinda makes me wonder just how much stuff the oil companies have > locked up in a safe. Not much. Take BP/Shell - they are leaders in solar-photovoltaics, which is direct competition for fossil fuels. The smarter companies will get into these technologies and out-compete the older, inflexible companies - and the older inflexible companies don't have research results to lock up in safes. >How long do you think it will take us to get to 100% fuel cell cars? Why would we want to? They require oil too and are less efficient than hybrids. (BTW hybrids can be made to run on the same fuels any other cars will - natural gas, propane, diesel, synthetic.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cornholio 0 #10 October 21, 2004 QuoteCan they put it in a V-8 Tundra crew cab? I dont like my gas bill much.. I'm with ya there. I'm already planning on looking into the 2005 Toyota Highlander. It's a V8-Hybrid. Butthead: Whoa! Burritos for breakfast! Beavis: Yeah! Yeah! Cool! bellyflier on the dz.com hybrid record jump Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chaoskitty 0 #11 October 21, 2004 Yah I have a little Acura that I drive around during the week, but I like the truck on weekends and road trips. Its acutally my dad's but I steal it from him all the time. My dad is cool as hell. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpwally 0 #12 October 21, 2004 Hey Bill,,can you explain your wheel to wheel efficiencies and &'s,,what does that mean ,really or how is it determined? thanx wallysmile, be nice, enjoy life FB # - 1083 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,080 #13 October 21, 2004 >can you explain your wheel to wheel efficiencies . . . Tank-to-wheel: The amount of chemical energy in the gasoline vs the amount of energy you get out of the wheels. 100% efficiency would be nice but isn't possible. Most cars are around 14%. It _roughly_ translates into gas mileage - double the efficiency and any car you drive will get twice the gas mileage, everything else being equal. Well-to-wheel: the amount of energy you get out of the oil well vs the amount of energy that comes out of the wheels. To put it simply, how much work you can get a gallon of crude oil to do. Hydrogen fuel cell cars do poorly by this measurement since you have to make hydrogen out of oil or natural gas, and that process takes a lot of energy, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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