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glgflyer

Re-using Softlinks

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Soft links can be reused if their condition is still satisfactory.

Many people will tell you that if you've had the same set of soft links on a canopy since the lines were new, that you should change them when you reline. That puts the expected life of the links at several hundred jumps. That's a whole lot more than 40 or 50 jumps.

It really all depends on their condition. While they can last hundreds of jumps, it is also true that they can be damaged in far fewer jumps.

Show them to your rigger. He can tell you if they are still okay. If you cannot do that, and are concerned about their condition, by all means replace them.

But if they are still looking nearly new and showing no signs of wear, they can be reused.

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yeah, of course its fine. Its not very different from when you buy a used canopy, it will often come with slinks and you can just throw them on your risers. If they were in good enough condition to jump on your current canopy, why wouldn't they be ok for the next? If the used canopy didn't come with soft links, you can be pretty sure that either 1) the canopy has zero jumps on a new re-line and the previous owner didn't bother to buy new slinks for it(get new slinks with every reline btw), or 2) they put their used slinks on their new canopy just like you're asking about.

Did you just buy a new or used canopy? In my opinion softlinks should stay with the canopy, but some other people don't like that idea as much. Every used main I have ever bought came with soft links, but I have also switched softlinks between canopies and its fine.

The fact that you are asking this question however would probably lead me to recommend you to ask a rigger to 1) check your slinks to make sure they are still in good enough condition to jump(i've seen people ruin them by tearing strands with their fingernails undoing them from their risers so be gentle), 2) hang up the canopy to attach the softlinks to the new canopy. Its much easier to get the lines on the correct soft link, in the correct order if the canopy is hanging up when you're doing it, and have the rigger give you a continuity check of your lines after you do finish, and 3) have someone you trust check that you 'closed' the slink correctly or else you'll be in for a good scare on your next jump when you lose a riser or 2 worth of lines...

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I would re-use soft links after 40 or 50 jumps, but if you ask me to install old (400 or 500 jumps) soft links on new lines, you will be ignored and billed ($25) for new links.

Manufacturers do not specify "lives" on soft links, but since they are made of the same material and subjected to the same abuse, most riggers expect soft links to last about the same life as suspension lines, Ergo, most Master Riggers replace soft links when they replace lines.

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According to PIA Technical Standard 102, links are supposed to be supplied by the canopy manufacturer.

If a second-hand canopy arrives without links, send the seller a check for $25 less than the asking price.



Sorry for hijacking the thread, but since you brought it up, I feel it is reasonable to respond.

While I generally agree with the concept, the devil is, as always, in the details.

Dinging the seller for the full cost of a new set of soft links doesn't seem quite right to me. The canopy is used, and so would be the links.

Also, it would be reasonable for the seller to include a set of the applicable french links. A set of the plain steel french links costs a lot less than a set of soft links.

When it comes right down to it, when you buy used gear, you should get whatever was agreed upon by the seller and the buyer. If you didn't ask about what links might be included, you don't really have the right to change the deal after the fact.

This is really no different than how you expect to be treated when buying anything used, whether it is a used car, or a household appliance, or a used parachute.

Buy from a manufacturer and you expect to get a complete package.
Buy from a private party and you get what was agreed upon.

Don't ever leave it to chance - ask up front so nobody gets disappointed.

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I think I need to clarify here. Sorry I didn't do this in my original post. No one has sold me a canopy without connector links. Here is the scenario that led to me asking about re-using soft links. I purchased a canopy from an individual a while back that came with metal french links. I bought and installed a set of soft links on that canopy. At a later time, I bought another canopy I liked better that also came with metal french links. Hence, my question: Is it ok to take the soft links off my old canopy and put them on my new canopy, as this is the one I will be jumping? You guys have answered the question perfectly. Again, I apologize for not explaining that in my OP.

NOTE: I am keeping BOTH canopies, so it is not an issue of me trying to duke someone out of set of soft links. I just wanted to know if it was safe to re-use them as long as they were still in good condition. Again, thanks for posting and answering the question.

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Buy from a private party and you get what was agreed upon.



When you buy from a private party you should get what is considered the industry standard. That would mean on a container the free bag and pilot chute, the risers with toggles and the “d” bag with pilot chute. With canopies that would include links. In most occasions the buyer is the new guy without enough knowledge to ask the right questions. The seller is the more experienced jumper and should know what goes with what. Its not a matter of what is expected it is a matter of what is right.

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Also, it would be reasonable for the seller to include a set of the applicable french links. A set of the plain steel french links costs a lot less than a set of soft links.



Yes it would but the scenario was a canopy shipped without any type of link.


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Dinging the seller for the full cost of a new set of soft links doesn't seem quite right to me. The canopy is used, and so would be the links.



Since the buyer can’t go out a buy a used set he should get the cost of a new set.

Sparky
My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

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Buy from a private party and you get what was agreed upon.



When you buy from a private party you should get what is considered the industry standard. That would mean on a container the free bag and pilot chute, the risers with toggles and the “d” bag with pilot chute. With canopies that would include links. In most occasions the buyer is the new guy without enough knowledge to ask the right questions. The seller is the more experienced jumper and should know what goes with what. Its not a matter of what is expected it is a matter of what is right.

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Also, it would be reasonable for the seller to include a set of the applicable french links. A set of the plain steel french links costs a lot less than a set of soft links.



Yes it would but the scenario was a canopy shipped without any type of link.


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Dinging the seller for the full cost of a new set of soft links doesn't seem quite right to me. The canopy is used, and so would be the links.



Since the buyer can’t go out a buy a used set he should get the cost of a new set.

Sparky



What do you ding the seller for when he doesn't send you the canopy manual? That is "industry standard" and expected from a manufacturer. When was the last time you got a manual when you bought something used?

If you didn't get what you expected, the first recourse is to contact the seller and ask if he will send you what you feel you are due.

Simply changing the deal without prior agreement leaves the seller to post here on dz.com that you are not to be trusted to stick to a deal.

When you buy used, caveat emptor is the rule. Assuming otherwise is hopelessly naive.

It is nice if you get everything without clearly specifying, but it is not really to be expected.

Even an inexperienced buyer is able to say "Is this everything I would get if I bought from a manufacturer?"

Buying used presuming that the seller is going to take care of you out of the goodness of his heart is not realistic.

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What do you ding the seller for when he doesn't send you the canopy manual? That is "industry standard" and expected from a manufacturer. When was the last time you got a manual when you bought something used?



Now you are mixing apples with oranges. The manufactures are required to provide a manual for new equipment. TSO-23d c (2). The industry standard I referred to is what is the standard when buying and selling used gear. If you sell a canopy you have no need for the links because when you replace it, it should come with links. When you sell a container it should include the risers and toggles because you would have no use for them. The only reason I can see to keep parts of component is stock pile for yourself at the expense of the buyer.

Sparky
My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

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What do you ding the seller for when he doesn't send you the canopy manual? That is "industry standard" and expected from a manufacturer. When was the last time you got a manual when you bought something used?



Now you are mixing apples with oranges. The manufactures are required to provide a manual for new equipment. TSO-23d c (2). The industry standard I referred to is what is the standard when buying and selling used gear. If you sell a canopy you have no need for the links because when you replace it, it should come with links. When you sell a container it should include the risers and toggles because you would have no use for them. The only reason I can see to keep parts of component is stock pile for yourself at the expense of the buyer.

Sparky



Okay, I see your points. And I agree that when you are dealing with manufacturers or with other professional people selling gear, you should expect that such professional standards would be followed.

I will mention that this standard of service does not appear to be codified when I looked on the PIA website. So it may well be that it is passed informally from professional person to professional person, with little opportunity for JoePublic skydiver to become aware of how things should be done.

So, I still say that when you are dealing with a private, non-professional seller, that industry standards would not necessarily apply, and that it is through no fault of either party that this is so.

You said "If you sell a canopy you have no need for the links ..." and this is generally true.

But I have seen at least one canopy that I removed from risers for an owner that had home-brew sewn-on soft links. The links were destroyed in the process of taking the canopy off the risers. I have no idea what happened to that canopy, but the owner, who might have subsequently been a seller, would not have had links to go with it.

I can think of other situations that might occur in a private sale is where the gear is incomplete with no nefarious or even selfish purpose. Maybe a non-jumper is selling the gear that used to belong to his dead friend. Maybe a relatively new jumper just had a horrible reserve ride and is leaving the sport. Maybe his freebag was lost during the incident. Sure, these are fringe conditions, but there really can be reason for gear to be incomplete, and in the case of a private seller, he might not be aware of any industry standards. So it could just be a case of an uninformed seller and uninformed buyer ending up with an unhappy experience.

As far as dinging the seller for a cost of soft links, I don't see that you have the unilateral right to ding him for the most expensive option. You should contact him and agree on an equitable solution, not just take it on your own to use the solution that you like the best. Maybe he would tell you to do that, or maybe he would send you a set of french links. But whatever the solution, he should have some say in it.

I don't think we really disagree that much. In a professional setting, we should expect professional behavior.

I just feel that in a less formal situation, you might not always expect performance to the same standards.

I do want to say that I really enjoy discussions like this with you, as I get the opportunity to clarify for myself how I feel about things. I hope that others have found it thought provoking and that they will form their own opinions of how things should or should not be done. If this discussion helps someone avoid an unpleasant experience, then I, for one, count the discussion a success.

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