billvon 3,121 #1 November 17, 2004 You are a doctor on call at a huge city hospital. A man comes in from a car wreck. He is unconscious and banged up but will almost certainly recover. While he is being examined, it is determined that he is a perfect tissue type for ten people in the hospital who will all certainly die without immediate transplants. Is it OK to use the unconscious man's body to save the other 10? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SBS 0 #2 November 17, 2004 no_____________ I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yoshi 0 #3 November 17, 2004 no_________________________________________ this space for rent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #4 November 17, 2004 No. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mardigrasbob 0 #5 November 17, 2004 not no but FUCK NO -------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #6 November 17, 2004 Yes, if you use the many is better then one arguement. Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #7 November 17, 2004 QuoteA man comes in from a car wreck Are you sure its not a subway accident? no.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RevJim 0 #8 November 17, 2004 No, if it means he will die. That's murder. If he will recover as he would have without the donations, I say yes.It's your life, live it! Karma RB#684 "Corcho", ASK#60, Muff#3520, NCB#398, NHDZ#4, C-33989, DG#1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #9 November 17, 2004 QuoteNo. Blues, Dave Why not? In the other thread you were willing to kill on person to save ten. What's the difference? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrJones 0 #10 November 17, 2004 SURE if the unconscious man is the only medical malpractice lawyer in town. NUR ZUM SPASS Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,592 #11 November 17, 2004 I like your answer best. It's not a forced choice. In forced choice, the "few for the benefit of the many" might hold sway. Not here. And in the subway one, I doubt I'd ever be able to see, think, and react in time to do anything. But I have picked earthworms up off the hot sidewalk and returned them to the dirt to live again -- does that make me worthy? Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #12 November 17, 2004 This is like the "lifeboat" situations. The food and water of a certainly-dying man could be used to save others that stand a chance of living. Should the ailing person be killed and his food/water be distributed? It makes no difference, by morning there would be no "others". It would suck to be in a lifeboat with limited food/water and me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #13 November 17, 2004 Kill all 11 people, sell their organs on E-bay. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RevJim 0 #14 November 17, 2004 QuoteThis is like the "lifeboat" situations. The food and water of a certainly-dying man could be used to save others that stand a chance of living. Should the ailing person be killed and his food/water be distributed? It makes no difference, by morning there would be no "others". It would suck to be in a lifeboat with limited food/water and me. Yes, it would suck. I think you would taste kind of gamey, but that's ok, I'll just hold my nose while I chew. Which would you liketo lose first, leg or arm? It's your life, live it! Karma RB#684 "Corcho", ASK#60, Muff#3520, NCB#398, NHDZ#4, C-33989, DG#1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #15 November 17, 2004 No.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #16 November 17, 2004 QuoteQuoteThis is like the "lifeboat" situations. The food and water of a certainly-dying man could be used to save others that stand a chance of living. Should the ailing person be killed and his food/water be distributed? It makes no difference, by morning there would be no "others". It would suck to be in a lifeboat with limited food/water and me. Yes, it would suck. I think you would taste kind of gamey, but that's ok, I'll just hold my nose while I chew. Which would you liketo lose first, leg or arm? Bowel movements. After all, it would lighten my end of the boat and you are holding your nose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #17 November 17, 2004 QuoteQuoteNo. Blues, Dave Why not? In the other thread you were willing to kill on person to save ten. What's the difference? There are several reasons, but the most compelling is the nature of the physician-patient relationship. I'm not talking about lawsuits, but rather the simple moral duty a doctor assumes when he swears to "first, do no harm." In the train accident scenario, an active choice had to be made by a person who had no moral duty to either side of the tracks. In such a situation, the good of the many outweighs the good of the one. In this case, the doctor has no active choice to make. His moral duty is to his patient and he has no ethical obligation (nor right) to consider the good of the many. That said, there are cases in which a doctor does need to weigh one versus many, triage being the most obvious. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gmanpilot 0 #18 November 17, 2004 QuoteBut I have picked earthworms up off the hot sidewalk and returned them to the dirt to live again -- does that make me worthy? Modern day St. Francis..._________________________________________ -There's always free cheese in a mouse trap. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #19 November 17, 2004 So you're basing the difference on the hipocratic oath? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,121 #20 November 17, 2004 >In the other thread you were willing to kill on person to save ten. What's the difference? That's the $64,000 question. Most people see a moral distinction between the subway case and the hospital case. The question is - why? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viking 0 #21 November 17, 2004 nopeI swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver My God has a bigger dick than your god -George Carlin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 35 #22 November 17, 2004 QuoteYou are a doctor on call at a huge city hospital. A man comes in from a car wreck. He is unconscious and banged up but will almost certainly recover. While he is being examined, it is determined that he is a perfect tissue type for ten people in the hospital who will all certainly die without immediate transplants. Is it OK to use the unconscious man's body to save the other 10? Only if that man is John Kerry! "Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #23 November 17, 2004 No. Good one after reading #2. Since this guy is not gonna die, that would be wrong, considering that some other poor sap may die in the next few minutes and give up the same tissues. This is easier then the train wreck one. It would be a crime to kill him just to let 10 others live. The train wreck scenerio is different in my book. Trying to put it into words is proving hard without contradicting myself. It's the fact that all 11 on the train tracks going to be victims of a tragic accident. You are making a choice to make it less tragic. This guy is not in mortal danger and should not be put down just to save the other 10, since he is not in any real danger to start with.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #24 November 17, 2004 QuoteSince this guy is not gonna die, that would be wrong See, that's the thing. The one guy on the other track wasn't going to die either, until you pulled the switch. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,121 #25 November 17, 2004 >This guy is not in mortal danger and should not be put down just to >save the other 10, since he is not in any real danger to start with. But that's true in both cases. If you don't flip the switch, he's fine. (Note that there's no right answer to these; it's an exercise to make you consider what underlies your moral choices.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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