UK employment Law - help needed ASAP

[BASE813 0]

I am in the process of discussion with a compromise agreement due to my injury through BASE - and having my solicitor make an offer my company has come back with "our offer is a reasonable one as you were the author of your own misfortune"

This has annoyed me slightly and would like to get a second opinion on what my standing is.

My current solicitor has said that due to the fact I had made unlawful entry to an object and got injured from this act, my company could call "gross misconduct" - but my feeling is that they have been aware of my activities for 2.5 yrs and to then turn and say its Gross misconduct is not lawful. Also after returning to work before my bone graft I was told that if I continue jumping then I would not have a job - surely this is all in my favour rather than theirs??????


Hey MrMk2????? I dont remember your user name! - I could do with some contacts or help here!

Mutha fuckers!

Its now not about the money its about the principle!

[skreamer 1]

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but my feeling is that they have been aware of my activities for 2.5 yrs

Were they aware that you were trespassing to jump? They could always argue that they were under the impression you were only jumping legal objects. Is the onus on them or you to prove this?

Fuck the principle, take the money.

[mr2mk1g 10]

This is not my area of expertise so I’m afraid I cannot offer any direct advice. I do think your treatment by your former employers has been deplorable though.

Your employers may be able to argue that trespass amounts to misconduct but this argument may turn on any number of factors in the case law, or your own contract. I’m not in a position to comment on it.

On the other hand, you could certainly argue that their knowledge of your activities and subsequent inaction for over 2 years amounts to their acceptance of them… but again it’s a grey argument to be getting into.

All I can really do is offer contacts. I must stress though that I am not familiar with the employment departments of the following firms. I take this information from Chambers, which lists a number of firms as being the “leading” firms in this area. (Chambers is a big book of law firms listing their specialisations and standing within the industry).

For Oxford, the top two firms in employment law are Henmans and Clarks and Osborne Clarke. These two firms receive glowing reviews and are headed by some of the top lawyers in the field.

As I mentioned though, I have no personal experience with these firms so I am unable to offer a personal recommendation – only what I read in Chambers.

I should remind you though that depending on the terms of the deal that is on the table, the costs of your legal advice may or may not be included in the settlement. You should bear in mind the potential cost of seeking further advice and take steps to ensure it does not negate any increase in the negotiated settlement you may be able to achieve.

Remember compromise agreements are meant to represent a middle ground - both sides give a little in order to avoid the expense, risk and torment of progressing the claim to a hearing.

Remember also that your employers are unlikely to start with their highest offer, and in support of their initial offer they will make arguments that you may not agree with and which may not have much merit in law. You may find that they expect to be rebuked and already have contingency offers if you are able to dismiss their initial arguments.

These comments though are merely general observations on such negotiations and may not apply in this instance. Take your solicitors advice on the matter - if they are recommending you accept the offer they are doing so for a reason. If they think they can get you more then they will most likely try.

Try to distance yourself from the arguments your employers solicitors make and maintain a clear head. Their job is to pick up on any possible arguments and make them, regardless of how it makes you feel.

Rely on the advice of your solicitor or on the advice of any second opinion they take. They are the one’s who know the law in this area and who know the details of this claim. I am not in that position so I cannot offer any more detailed advice.

I hope that helps - your employers have ridden rough shod over your rights and you deserve a degree of compensation for their actions.

[BASE813 0]

thanks for the reply.

the situation at the moment is:

1) my employer (and the whole company from bottom to top) was aware I was jumping Buildings and antennas in a "non legal manner" for 2.5 years without any come back or problems except the occasional "you are mad"
2) On returning to work for 2 days during my recovery and waiting for my bone graft I was asked "are you going to jump again" and I was told on my response "well we dont want to employ you then" - and that my activity is "different" and not the same as skiing or moutain biking.
3) I was offered in the compromise agreement £4,000 - which is above a general redundancy pay
4) My solicitor states that due to the fact I injured myself in an "unlawful act" my company could argue "gross misconduct" - my only retort to this is that they were aware of my activities for a couple of years before this incident.
5) I have in my current offered compromise agreement the pay off of £4000, my private health care until July05 for my leg, and my company car until Jan05.
6) I have been advised that if I was to take this to court for unfair dismis, then I would only be able to get aprox 7K (as its not a profit making claim) and it will take almost a year to do this with legal expenses toward £1.5k

7) bascially I could take the offer and swallow the principle or take it further and end up with a net value of less than I am currently offered perhaps.

My whole thought, is how dare they tell me that my injury is something they can sack me for - although I agree with skreamer and say fuck principle and take the money - I also think how fucking dare they tell me what I can and cant do in my private life and dictate what is acceptable for a hobby.................


I am still waiting to speaking to my solicitor about this current offer...............


all i can say is mutha fuckers make me angry and have cost me £700 in legal fees already!

[tigra 0]

Just a question- Realistically, with your injuries, aren't you months away from jumping even being a possibility? Since you need your job and are still waiting for more surgery, why couldn't you just keep your mouth shut or make a non-committal answer? They made their position pretty clear! Under those circumstances, standing on principle would NOT be an option for me financially- I'd need to suck it up until I was healthy and then look for something else. You DID bring this on yourself, and I'm not talking about the injury, either. You had an opportunity to keep your job and you blew it. Suck it up, take the money, cut your losses and focus on healing and finding another job!

I'm not "siding" with your employer, because I think its wrong to fire someone for being ill or injured, and I also think its wrong to single you out for participating in an "extreme sport" since bad things also happen to people who don't base jump or skydive. But there are a lot of things in life that aren't fair, and as adults we have to deal with that!

Best of luck to you!

maura

[BASE813 0]

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Just a question- Realistically, with your injuries, aren't you months away from jumping even being a possibility? Since you need your job and are still waiting for more surgery, why couldn't you just keep your mouth shut or make a non-committal answer?

I was about to return to work (as I was willing to go back even though I was still on crutches and not 100%) on a Friday, and on the Wednesday (when I was getting ready to go to my friends funeral) my FD and MD came to my house telling me they dont want me back.

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They made their position pretty clear!

only after my injury and about 5 months into my recovery.

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Under those circumstances, standing on principle would NOT be an option for me financially- I'd need to suck it up until I was healthy and then look for something else.

I was on sick pay for 3 months (£250 per month) before I was ready to return to work (I really fucked my leg up!!!!) , when I told my company I was ready, that is when the got rid of me.

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You DID bring this on yourself, and I'm not talking about the injury, either. You had an opportunity to keep your job and you blew it. Suck it up, take the money, cut your losses and focus on healing and finding another job!

fucking bulshit!!!! - re-read what I have posted and what I posted before - I was willing to go back to work, and I was doing work from home during my recovery - the company changed their mind as soon as I said "I am going to jump again" - maybe I should have lied to them, but being close (or used to be) to my FD I thought being honest is something friends do. - Dont you FUCKING DARE TO SAY ITS MY FAULT!

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I'm not "siding" with your employer, because I think its wrong to fire someone for being ill or injured, and I also think its wrong to single you out for participating in an "extreme sport" since bad things also happen to people who don't base jump or skydive. But there are a lot of things in life that aren't fair, and as adults we have to deal with that!

if you want to know more details then PM me, but I bet you have the wrong end of the stick here - I am certainly not at fault, and I certainly had no control over loosing my job!

Dont fucking give me shit when you dont know shit about it!

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Best of luck to you!

I thank you

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maura

Michael

[Faber 0]

DUUDE??
Yes mac sure did somthing wrong telling what he loves to do...

But if the fact that getting injured duing extreme sports gets you fired people has a problem...

Look at football and all thouse injuryes(it often cost more to have a football player vs. a skydiver as employed)Now how would you feel to be restricted on your freedom??

Or does your work pay for your freedome aswell??

Or what about driving too fast crash then your boss asks you if you will do speeding again,to that you answers probaly and he then says your off

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[tigra 0]

Michael,

OK, easy there! YES, I'm saying under those circumstances, having already been told I'd lose my job if I expressed the intention of ever jumping again, (And you posted a while back that you did have that conversation with your boss!) I would have lied. HELL YES! I would have lied because unfortunately, my employers would have backed me into a corner and given me no other options. Me personally, I can't afford to lose my job just to stand on principle. I wish I could, but in reality, I cannot! Even if I am legally in the right, I couldn't afford it! In the US, these types of lawsuits take YEARS to settle, and there is no guaranty I would walk away with anything! How am I supposed to live in the meantime? How easy is it to find a job when I'm on crutches facing still more PT and surgery? So, absolutely without a doubt, I would have lied and kept my mouth shut until I was healthy enough to pursue other options.

Your boss/ FD as a friend came you you a while back and gave you an opportunity to keep your job. (LIE about your intention to jump again.) You didn't take it. Now you have to deal with the consequences, and whether your employer is right or wrong, you are still screwed.

And I sincerely wish you luck in your recovery and everything else.

And, I do have some experience and insight! I've broken both my ankles in the past 6 years and my employers were NOT happy with me! The first time, I hated my job and was ready to quit before the accident. I stayed there because I felt I had no better options until I was healthy! And, I have no doubt IF I had been unable to return to work as quickly as I did, my job would have been in jeapardy.

I've also seen previous employers fire people while they were on leave being treated for cancer! Legal? Doubtful! In once case, they knew the woman wouldn't make it and had no one to sue on her behalf so they got away with it. In another case, they had their lawyers do everything possible to defend their actions, and also got away with it. It sucks, and its unfair, but thats the way it is.

You want to talk about principle? Your employers are wrong. But the reality is, you've got bills to pay! That's just how I see it and I'm sorry if that offends you. And I do sincerely wish you all the best!

[BASE813 0]

hey! sorry for the agression! sorry to take it out on you!

I know sometimes you have to play the game to get a "fair" deal - and in the mean time people are fucked over - in the world people are fucked over!

sorry to vent spleen on you.

anyway, in addition, I have spoken to another partner of the legal firm I am using about the deal I am offered, and the way my company responded to my application for more money - and he has turned round and said "to be honest fuck them, they are in the wrong, it does not matter how you got injured and what you do in your private life, they are in the wrong" - I like his attitude.

It does not matter about getting money now ( I am lucky enough to have a GF who agrees with standing the ground) - in the end my company are wrong to sack me because of my injury and my hobby. I would like to think its better to argue this over just accepting it.

As my FD / MD said "what you do is different" - but is that any reason to be treated differently?

[Faber 0]

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I am lucky enough to have a GF who agrees with standing the ground

she still yells out my name in bed

M,dont let Mac take Jack and Moe too hard..Hope you´ll cook in easter 05 as this crazy dane will be arround again,dont ya just love me

Mac to keep things straight,she might love you,but she respects me

Get a new job earn some mony and go jump whith me

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[BASE813 0]

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she still yells out my name in bed

no mate, not once has she called out "Faber" - I am still trying to decide what she means when she shouts out "850, 850"

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dont let Mac take Jack and Moe too hard

hell man, I dont do the animals like that! anyway if I remember right, jake spent the night in your room and walked out in the morning looking a little tired! what the fuck happened there!!!

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Hope you´ll cook in easter 05 as this crazy dane will be arround again,dont ya just love me

cant wait to see ya again - last time was way too short - only one night of the crazy sub200ft Dane! - but this time it wont be Marce cooking, it will be me - as i have some pay back to make after 28 weeks of being an injury boy!

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Get a new job earn some mony and go jump whith me

man its not a question of money - its a question of ankle movement! - Fuck I want to get back to jumping so so so so much!!!



lets hope you get here in December for the UK meet!!!!

[tigra 0]

Hey, if you are fortunate enough to have a means of support while you are fighting this, then go for it!
I hope you win! If I were in a similar situation, that's an option I wouldn't have, unfortunately, and I think that's true for a lot of people who are unfairly terminated. That's how employers get away with it- its too costly and time consuming to fight.

[Faber 0]

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I am still trying to decide what she means when she shouts out "850, 850"

BASE850 dont have a clue

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if I remember right, jake spent the night in your room and walked out in the morning looking a little tired! what the fuck happened there!!!

You know that dog just takes too much room in a single bed.. and yes i kicked him down serval times

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this time it wont be Marce cooking, it will be me - as i have some pay back to make after 28 weeks of being an injury boy!

ouch... M i invite you out to eat as im sure Mac cant cook

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its a question of ankle movement!

you dont need to move the ankel while jumping and if you desided to jump in Hanwags option you wont move it anyway

My biggest concern is that you now will force me to climb higher

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lets hope you get here in December for the UK meet!!!!

sorry mate looks like it happened to late i can go but not get ho,me sunday,and i cant get off work(just asked today) Sorry,you guys only gonna enjoy me on video.. he he

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[QuickDraw 0]

Just a thought Mac...

Does your company have any proof that you were trespassing ? do they have witnesses ?
you could have been jumping off quite a few 'legal' sites.

-- Hope you don't die. --

I'm fucking winning

[Faber 0]

or perhaps he just bragged about illegal jumps to gain respect,now grab your self mate and tell them the truth.. you never traspassed anything nor did you jump off anything(or pulled lower)than allowed

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[BASE813 0]

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or perhaps he just bragged about illegal jumps to gain respect

I dont fucking think so!

[yoink 321]

Hey Mac,

firstly (and don't take this the wrong way ) you do seem to get wound up pretty easy - be careful not to lose your temper with your employers or then they really will have a case against you!
Secondly, it's no real surprise they're going for a misconduct call, it's what I would have done, although proving it is slightly harder.
If it goes to tribunal, the emphasis is on your employer to show that your injury is directly breaching a certain code of conduct relating to the company and IMO they won't be able to.

On the other hand, they can make life very difficult for you though, in which case, I'd stick with it for a couple of months and then take them to tribunal for "Untenable Employment", and get cash and leave the business that way...

Have you given your employers (or will they be able to get hold of) and evidence of you doing illegal jumps? I'm guessing not....?

What do you want from your company? Presumably what they want is for you to voluntatily leave?

[Zeemax 0]

Is there a clause in your contract of employment that you wont break any laws?

I'm pretty sure mine has a clause along those lines. If so then that may be what they're trying to enforce? i'm not sure, in fact i i'm probably not making sense. sorry been up too long...

Best of luck anyway dude

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