Shawndiver 0 #1 November 26, 2004 Classic example of a mouse with too much power... http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=6&u=/ap/20041126/ap_on_fe_st/skydiving_santa_________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #2 November 26, 2004 no aircraft below 3K... why not do a 4K hop n pop? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #3 November 27, 2004 Quoteno aircraft below 3K... why not do a 4K hop n pop? Read: HERE. "...ALL AIRCRAFT AND PARACHUTE OPERATIONS ARE PROHIBITED AT AND BELOW 3,000 FEET AGL WITHIN A THREE NAUTICAL MILE RADIUS ..." This restriction includes the entry of parachutes into this restricted area, not just the flight of an aircraft. They have extended the basically unwaiverable restriction over Disneyland because of it's high risk as a potential terrorist target. And NOTAM specifically for Anaheim's Disneyland. Click the "NOTAM Text" button. ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveJack 1 #4 November 27, 2004 "...ALL AIRCRAFT AND PARACHUTE OPERATIONS ARE PROHIBITED AT AND BELOW 3,000 FEET AGL WITHIN A THREE NAUTICAL MILE RADIUS ..." This restriction includes the entry of parachutes into this restricted area, not just the flight of an aircraft. __________________________________________________ This wording might have something to do with Lew Sandborn. Years ago when he lived in Florida he was working construction at the then new EPCOT Center, next to Disney World. He tried to set up a jump into there for opening day and was refused by Disney management. If I remember it all correctly, he got his own waver and filed a NOTAM. He then jumped well off from the property and opened high over an unpopulated area. He flew his parachute over to Epcot and landed there. When security got to him they said they would have him arrested for making an illegal jump. He pulled out the FAA paperwork and showed them that it was legal. This kind of torqued them off but then they said they were going to have him arrested for trespassing. Lew then pulled out a valid ticket for opening day! All they could do was escort him off the property. I think I got the basics right, you can ask Lew for the details. Jack Gregory Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leroydb 0 #5 November 27, 2004 thats good stuffLeroy ..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #6 November 27, 2004 QuoteThey have extended the basically unwaiverable restriction over Disneyland because of it's high risk as a potential terrorist target. Well, at least that's the excuse they're giving. The reality is that they had been trying to do this sort of thing for decades before 9/11 without any success because they wanted to keep out the banner tows. 9/11 gave them the excuse to push harder and they won. The thing is if Disney wants a demo they can have one, but any other business in the area can't because of the restriction. So, demos are pretty much out for Anaheim Stadium, unless the City asks Disney nice and Disney gives them approval, but unless it's a City function -- like for instance a rock concert -- it's probably a no go. This entire air space grab is totally bogus and yet another example of how companies have more power than the people. In order to go into this any further though . . . I'd probably have to move it to Speakers.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FlyingJ 0 #7 November 27, 2004 Micky wouldn't let Santa skydive, so he headed over to Georiga to jump at The Farm. Check out the Farm's homepage at www.skydivethefarm.com.Killing threads since 2004. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #8 November 28, 2004 QuoteIn order to go into this any further though . . . I'd probably have to move it to Speakers. Go ahead and move it to Speakers. We'd all like to hear what you have to say there. The source for the information I posted was an inside employee at the "Mouse House" and was extremely busy after 9/11, saying with authority that the Disney properties were -indeed- high risk locations in which terrorists were plotting to set something off. A populace who would be there at any given day...plus high profile in the capitalist market system made it a prime target. It indeed would make alot of impact, my source said. He was extremely scared that something was imminent to happen. So, now it's being said that what was implied is not true? ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #9 November 28, 2004 Although the Parks are high risk targets, this airspace grab had little to do with stopping an attack from above. All one need do is think about the time it would take for even a slow moving airplane to decend through 3,500 feet of air even with full flaps and the engine at idle. Since a VFR aircraft -could- be expected to fly over the parks at 3,500 feet you can see the airspace grab offers no actual protection.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leroydb 0 #10 November 28, 2004 QuoteSince a VFR aircraft -could- be expected to fly over the parks at 3,500 feet you can see the airspace grab offers no actual protection. but it screws the rest of the town....Leroy ..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #11 November 28, 2004 QuoteAlthough the Parks are high risk targets, this airspace grab had little to do with stopping an attack from above. So, now you're implying that the FAA has been duped? Shame on them! ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #12 November 28, 2004 Well, duh . . . that's my point. It's a company that now "owns" airspace. Something that prior to 9/11 was impossible. And it's not just the local townfolk that are pissed either. ALL pilot's ought to hate this. I know I do.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #13 November 28, 2004 Quote So, now you're implying that the FAA has been duped? Not by any means! It's the fault of the Department of Homeland Security for being complicitous in this. The FAA simply administers the policy.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leroydb 0 #14 November 28, 2004 question is why does mickey-land even care? are they still pissed off the got skydived into without permission? what do they have against skydivers?Leroy ..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #15 November 28, 2004 As detailed in another thread . . . it has nothing to do with skydivers per se, but rather the control of the airspace in general to keep out banner tows.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leroydb 0 #16 November 28, 2004 well can't they be specific then? just ban "banner tows" in/over the park?Leroy ..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #17 November 28, 2004 QuoteQuote So, now you're implying that the FAA has been duped? Not by any means! It's the fault of the Department of Homeland Security for being complicitous in this. The FAA simply administers the policy. So, clarify something for us. Who has power over who? I thought the buck stopped with the FAA. No? Oh, and could you find a web site about this master/slave relationship between the two so I can bookmark it? Thanks. ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #18 November 28, 2004 Quote well can't they be specific then? just ban "banner tows" in/over the park? You're not following this are you? They tried to get that for years, but simply couldn't because the airspace ovver the US is supposed to belong to everybody (with exceptions for military type use, I'll include the White House in this category). So, no. They can't just say "banner tows" because that tips off the world that they're using the system. Instead they argue it's a security threat and get everyone banned.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #19 November 28, 2004 The Department of Homeland Security which was created after 9/11 reports -directly- to the President and is a cabinet level agency. The FAA is one level down the ladder and reports to the Department of Transportation which in turn reports to the President at the same cabinet level as the DHS. There is not a direct relationship, but the DHS does set policy for security issues. For example, the Transportation Security Administration is under the DHS and at the same level as the FAA. The TSA, as I'm sure you're aware, has all sorts of new rules as to how things are to be done in aviation circles -- demos for instance -- so we demo jumpers have to get TSA clearance into certain demos, but it's the FAA that would administer the policy by checking our paper work at the site, much the same way as the local FAA is the ones that would bust a pilot for violating the airspace of the Disney Parks.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #20 November 28, 2004 QuoteThere is not a direct relationship... Didn't think so.... Thanks for the explanation. http://www.lib.lsu.edu/gov/tree ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #21 November 28, 2004 QuoteClassic example of a mouse with too much power... http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=6&u=/ap/20041126/ap_on_fe_st/skydiving_santa Very sorry state of affairs. I took a helicopter tour around all the parks in Orlando a month ago and we were well under 4k, I doubt we were over 2000ft and we wnet all over the place. The ride certainly went over Pleasure Island & Downtown Disney. Exact distance to the theme parks was difficult to judge, I'd put it at less than 3 miles in many places, but I wasn't paying close attention to proximity at the time. The point is there are probably exceptions right now at least for helicopter tour businesses. Maybe the demo jumpers losing business could get an eager lawyer on the case if they're not getting equitable treatment. Something else to be grateful for; Disney suits don't control the airspace above my head. Sigh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
