virgin-burner 1 #1 July 27, 2009 shouldnt really be a problem if you follow the manufacturers guide, right!? for the harness that is.. i had a little talk with our rigger yesterday, of course he's a little pissed off that i didnt order through him; giving me crap about not knowing which container-sizes to order etc. for those, if i give the manufacturer the type and size of main and reserve-canopy i intend to put in, he should get that right!? what the rigger basically said was, he NEVER orders whats recommended in container-sizing.. anybody knowledgeable caring to chime in!?“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billeisele 130 #2 July 27, 2009 only problem is once you screw it up its yours, of course for a slight $$ donation you can have it modified consulting an expert on a big $$ purchase that you will have for years is a good ideaGive one city to the thugs so they can all live together. I vote for Chicago where they have strict gun laws. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #3 July 27, 2009 the situation is, if you order a complete rig, its gonna cost you around 9k here; if i shop around myself, its gonna cost me maybe 5k. with the remaining 4k i go and do some 100 jumps! what would you do!? “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #4 July 27, 2009 Quote shouldnt really be a problem if you follow the manufacturers guide, right!? for the harness that is.. Every manufacturer measures differently, it's an art LOL so make sure you get yourself measured by someone who knows how to measure for that particular brand. Of course you can NEVER measure yourself. Container sizing, again, make sure you ask someone who knows about that particular brand combination, the manufacturer may not know your canopy brand(s) and type(s), especially if you have something rare, and pack volumes can vary enourmously. 4k difference? No way. You'll maybe pay a bit more if even that if you go through a dealer than if you ordered yourself, don't forget you'll have to pay mport duties and taxes same as your dealer does (unless you physically go and pick up a rig from the States and then don't declare it, something your dealer will not do). Also, many manufacturers will not sell you a rig directly, you'll have to go through one of their dealers. Also, pissing off your local rigger = bad idea ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #5 July 27, 2009 I am backing with your rigger on this debate. When I worked at Rigging Innovations, HALF the problems with ill-fitting harnesses were caused by skydivers measuring themselves and INVENTING new measuring methods. At a minimum, get measured by a tailor. Better, get measured by a rigger. Best, get measured by one of the sales ladies at Square One. As for matching canopy size to container size ... back in the 1990s, I told customers to LIE to Jump Shack about the size of their reserves. For example, if a customer already owned a Raven 180, I told them to write "Raven 218" on the order form, because I never agreed to the trend of down-sizing reserve containers until them are soft as bricks. By the same token, I was the first person to pack most of the Talon 2, Telesis 2, Genera and Aviator prototypes and frequently told Sandy Reid: "Yes I can get that size of reserve into that size of container, but it is a %$#@! struggle!" There is a wide variety of reserve containers and not all riggers have the talent, tools, experience and spare parts to pack all of them gracefully. In conclusion, if you buy a container - that your rigger does not like - you will pay extra and wait a long time for an ugly reserve pack job. Rob Warner FAA Master Rigger (all types) Canadian Rigger Examiner (all types) Rigging Innovations Customer Service Manager (retired) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,468 #6 July 27, 2009 Hi Rob, Quote In conclusion, if you buy a container - that your rigger does not like - you will pay extra and wait a long time for an ugly reserve pack job. I have a very good friend of over 35 yrs. His last two rigs had the reserve so tight for his canopy that after I assembled & packed them both I told him never to bring them back to me again. It simply is not worth the struggle for the $$$. Mike Truffer wrote an editorial a number of years ago recommending that when one orders a new rig to tell the mfr that you have one size larger than your reserve & main canopies. That also makes for a more comfortable rig when 'you' are wearing it. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #7 July 28, 2009 anybody wanting to have a complete set of skydiving-gear including a logbook with 243 jumps!? you could be an experienced skydiver TODAY!!! “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LyraM45 0 #8 July 28, 2009 In my case, measuring must obviously be hard enough because last year I ordered a suit, and a new container-- both measured right there at the companies shops/factories by employees, and both are wrong. Either I have really bad luck, or a really weird body type. The suit I just got a refund on after the second make of the suit was even worse off, and the container is getting shipped back to the manufacturer sometime this week to be refitted in the harness and to have the laterals taken in. Hopefully everything will fit eventually! Anyway... the moral of my story is don't even trust the manufacturer. Don't even trust just your rigger or the person working the gear shop. If you get it done by the manufacturer have your rigger double check everything, and if done by your rigger have your manufacturer check everything and vice versa. Never hurts to ask around or have as many people as you need give input on what your submitting for your order before you actually submit it. Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #9 July 29, 2009 upon the outcome, i decided to look for a set of nice used gear; if it fits it fits, otherwise i wont buy. so wether the manufacturer nor the rigger are gonna get my business! i was really excited to get a custom rig, but hey, if you treat me this way, dont be surprised if i choose the other path! “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
antonija 0 #10 July 29, 2009 I'll hijack this thread just for few sec: Most (probably all) rig manufacturers use couple of "special points" to take body measurements. What makes this points "special" is the vague description of how to find them and wide interval of results that one can come up with using different interpretations of these points. Here are the two most confusing for me (taken from UPT website): QuoteTorso Be very careful when taking this measurement. Stand up straight, and put your hands around the sides of your waist (for most people, this is approximately inline with the belly button). Now press down firmly and you will feel the top of your hipbones. Use the very top of the hip bone slightly forward of center where the hip bone flares out and forms a point as one of the measuring points for the torso length. The second point is the hollow spot at the base of the neck. To find this, follow the collarbone to where it takes a deep dip BELOW your Adam's apple. Measure from the lowest part of the dip, diagonally across your chest to the side of your body at the top of the hipbone. Now I know my bones quite well but hipbone does not for a point. It is nicely rounded piece of bone as can be seen below: Hipbone If you look closely you can see a small thingy pointing out of the hipbone at mid-height and far front, definitely not at the top. If someone (preferably some who is good at measuring people for UPT rigs) could just draw a mark on the picture linked above to define this point I'd really appreciate it. The second special point is the collarbone dip. This one I can find just fine but I'm confused as to where to place the tape. Is it flat on the bone (so it points directly upwards), is it on the top edge of the bone (so it point into the neck; adds few cm), ... The last question is about the inseam. On UPT site it seems they can not stress enough that this measurement should be taken Quotehigh in the crotch I'm guessing this means that the end of the tape should go all the way to the point where inner leg and genital area meet (which should be "high in the crotch" unless you're willing to put that measuring tape into the wrong places...). After reading about people getting wrong sized rigs even when measuring at the factory will self-measuring really be that bad? Disclaimer: I do not have experienced rigger or anyone experienced in taking body measurements in my area.I understand the need for conformity. Without a concise set of rules to follow we would probably all have to resort to common sense. -David Thorne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #11 July 29, 2009 Quote will self-measuring really be that bad? Again, you CANNOT measure YOURSELF. At least get someone ELSE to hold the measuring tape ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
antonija 0 #12 July 29, 2009 By "self measuring" I ment someone not skilled in proper measuring measuring me. I think.I understand the need for conformity. Without a concise set of rules to follow we would probably all have to resort to common sense. -David Thorne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #13 July 29, 2009 Quote Quote will self-measuring really be that bad? Again, you CANNOT measure YOURSELF. At least get someone ELSE to hold the measuring tape WHY NOT!? jesus, operating a measuring tape is kinda not the same as operating a nuclear reactor.. you might encounter problems with the legs tough..“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
antonija 0 #14 July 29, 2009 Quote Quote Quote will self-measuring really be that bad? Again, you CANNOT measure YOURSELF. At least get someone ELSE to hold the measuring tape WHY NOT!? jesus, operating a measuring tape is kinda not the same as operating a nuclear reactor.. you might encounter problems with the legs tough.. I guess the problem is that you have to stand straight up when being measured and you cant measure yourself while standing straight up. Now about those special points... any idea how to pinpoint them?I understand the need for conformity. Without a concise set of rules to follow we would probably all have to resort to common sense. -David Thorne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #15 July 29, 2009 Quote WHY NOT!? jesus, operating a measuring tape is kinda not the same as operating a nuclear reactor.. you might encounter problems with the legs tough.. did you ever see Homer operate a measuring tape ?? Doh scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #16 July 29, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Quote will self-measuring really be that bad? Again, you CANNOT measure YOURSELF. At least get someone ELSE to hold the measuring tape WHY NOT!? jesus, operating a measuring tape is kinda not the same as operating a nuclear reactor.. you might encounter problems with the legs tough.. I guess the problem is that you have to stand straight up when being measured and you cant measure yourself while standing straight up. Now about those special points... any idea how to pinpoint them? from what i've been told, those special points are the ones you feel on the sides of your tummy, at about the height of your belly-button, maybe a little more "down"..“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #17 July 29, 2009 Quote Quote WHY NOT!? jesus, operating a measuring tape is kinda not the same as operating a nuclear reactor.. you might encounter problems with the legs tough.. did you ever see Homer operate a measuring tape ?? Doh smart arse! “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
antonija 0 #18 July 29, 2009 Quotefrom what i've been told, those special points are the ones you feel on the sides of your tummy, at about the height of your belly-button, maybe a little more "down".. So this would be the correct point?I understand the need for conformity. Without a concise set of rules to follow we would probably all have to resort to common sense. -David Thorne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #19 July 29, 2009 Quote Quote from what i've been told, those special points are the ones you feel on the sides of your tummy, at about the height of your belly-button, maybe a little more "down".. So this would be the correct point? yes! “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #20 July 29, 2009 Quote upon the outcome, i decided to look for a set of nice used gear; if it fits it fits, otherwise i wont buy. so wether the manufacturer nor the rigger are gonna get my business! i was really excited to get a custom rig, but hey, if you treat me this way, dont be surprised if i choose the other path! thank god there's this social networking site on which i have MANY, MANY friends, most of which are skydivers.. looks like i might get a custom-rig anyway! tough tiddies, even the reserve is included in roughly the same price.. “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
