Squeak 17 #26 December 21, 2004 Quote Well, it was just an example! I'm just curious as to how adult repressed memories work. denial and repressed memories are 2 completly different things, which are you realy interested in?You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #27 December 21, 2004 QuoteYou're assuming that just because a person says they don't remember something that they don't. Sometimes it's just easier for a person to say he doesn't remember something and just avoid the topic altogether. I think you have this pegged. Of course, if he did finally remember it, and then forgot it again... That would be Deja Vu and amnesia, because what you weren't repeating the memory, just the forgetting. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #28 December 21, 2004 QuoteNo, there are instances of adults forgetting traumatic experiences. I imagine that an adult can forget things like that, too. It's bizarre, but I think it can happen. In medical circles this is termed a protective mechanism that allows the body and mind to heal without the memory of the trauma interfering with the recovery. Sometimes this can be a good thing, as the body can only handle so much before it psychologically breaks down. Other times it is a physical trauma that takes that part of the memory away (I lost almost and entire 24 hours of memory after my horse-related injury. Still haven't regained the memory 16 years later). It's not intentional, either way. It's a way for the body and mind to cope. Nothing wrong with that. ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #29 December 21, 2004 Quote Well, it was just an example! I'm just curious as to how adult repressed memories work. I don't think you can elect to choose which memories you can repress, Val.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #30 December 21, 2004 QuoteYou're assuming that just because a person says they don't remember something that they don't. Sometimes it's just easier for a person to say he doesn't remember something and just avoid the topic altogether. Don't you DARE get this put into Speakers.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vallerina 2 #31 December 21, 2004 QuoteIn medical circles this is termed a protective mechanism that allows the body and mind to heal without the memory of the trauma interfering with the recovery. This is the part that I get confused with. Let's use the cheating example. If it's something that happens often, how can each of those incidents be forgotten as an adult? I know a few people that can't remember a time period around a specific traumatic event, but what about multiple events? Maybe I should stop sleeping with the soap opera network on! There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunshine 2 #32 December 21, 2004 Ok, here's my thoughts at the moment. If someone cheats a lot, it becomes second nature and no big deal to them. In that case, it would be easy to forget it ever really happened. ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #33 December 21, 2004 I have often wondered how repressed memories work too... I can think of a few memories that I would certainly like to repress... I usually hear of this in relation to sexual abuse from childhood... But I have also read studies where researchers were able to give subjects "false memories" by using the same suggestive techniques that some psychologists use to help patients retrieve "repressed memories"... so there is some question as to the validity of a lot of those cases. I have never heard of a case where someone forgot about cheating on their spouse... and if I did hear of such a case, well I'd have a pretty hard time believing that one. ("But sweetheart, I didn't tell you that I was cheating on you for the past year because I have no recollection of cheating on you." I think my response to that would be something like, "That's good dear, then maybe you won't remember my foot kicking your ass out the door." ) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vallerina 2 #34 December 21, 2004 Okay, the cheating on the spouse thing was just an example. Like I said, it was a bad one! Another example is let's say that once a month, a mother cusses out her children and has no recollection of it. How do things like that happen?There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gjhdiver 0 #35 December 21, 2004 QuoteI read something about this long ago in one of my psych classes, but I don't remember all of the details. So, if anyone out there can shed some light on this, that would be great! I don't know, but I refuse to find out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #36 December 21, 2004 QuoteAnother example is let's say that once a month, a mother cusses out her children and has no recollection of it. How do things like that happen? Hmm, again I think I would probably not believe it. Being the skeptic that I am, I would think she did remember it but chose to pretend like she didn't. (Well, unless the woman drinks a lot of alcohol - then there would be the possibility that every time she cussed out her children she was drunk to the point of not remembering things... Of course, alcohol might explain the cheating scenario too, but probably not if it's an ongoing affair.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vallerina 2 #37 December 21, 2004 Okay, for argument's sake, let's say that she is telling the truth. That's the situation I'm curious about.There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #38 December 21, 2004 QuoteWho are you? What yo name is? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildblue 7 #39 December 21, 2004 I'm not a professional, nor do I play one on tv... but I'd guess if you regretted doing something enough or were embarassed enough of it or whatever, you could convince yourself that you didn't actually do it, and effectively block that memory.it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SimpleOne 0 #40 December 21, 2004 I recently had dinner with my Mother and some of her friends...there was a couple there who I hadn't seen in years and the husband was making me uncomfortable, even though I couldn't pin-point why. I mentioned this later to my Mother, and she told me that I hadn't seem him for years b/c when I was 15 or 16 at a party my parents were throwing, I told her that he grabbed my leg and and made a very inappropriate comment to me, and that I had told him to f**k off and threw a drink at him (soda-I hadn't had any alcohol). They stopped having him over after that. After her telling me that, I vaguely remember something happening at a party-I can remember what part of the house I was standing in when I told her, and I remember thinking he was gross, but can't remember anything else about it. I don't think I would have ever remembered that if I hadn't seen him again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #41 December 21, 2004 I guess it's possible that she could have some sort of dissociative disorder that would cause her to do certain things and then not remember doing them (sort of like having multiple personalities)... And I believe most people with dissociative disorders are found to have experienced some kind of abuse as a child - usually sexual abuse. Here is a good description: (Obviously the case you described is not this extreme, I'm just saying she may have had something happen in her childhood that caused her to learn to dissociate from unpleasant events.) QuoteHOW DOES A DISSOCIATIVE DISORDER DEVELOP? When faced with overwhelmingly traumatic situations from which there is no physical escape, a child may resort to "going away" in his or her head. Children typically use this ability as an extremely effective defense against acute physical and emotional pain, or anxious anticipation of that pain. By this dissociative process, thoughts, feelings, memories, and perceptions of the traumatic experiences can be separated off psychologically, allowing the child to function as if the trauma had not occurred. Dissociative Disorders are often referred to as a highly creative survival technique because they allow individuals enduring "hopeless" circumstances to preserve some areas of healthy functioning. Over time, however, for a child who has been repeatedly physically and sexually assaulted, defensive dissociation becomes reinforced and conditioned. Because the dissociative escape is so effective, children who are very practiced at it may automatically use it whenever they feel threatened or anxious -- even if the anxiety-producing situation is not extreme or abusive. Often, even after the traumatic circumstances are long past, the left-over pattern of defensive dissociation remains. Chronic defensive dissociation may lead to serious dysfunction in work, social, and daily activities. Repeated dissociation may result in a series of separate entities, or mental states, which may eventually take on identities of their own. These entities may become the internal "personality states" of a DID system. Changing between these states of consciousness is often described as "switching." (From http://www.sidran.org/didbr.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vallerina 2 #42 December 21, 2004 Ahhh....dissociative disorder. That makes sense.There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #43 December 21, 2004 QuoteAhhh....dissociative disorder. That makes sense. Bah. It's just semantics. If someone doesn't remember something, genuinely, they are not in denial. To be in denial they have to be aware of the issue, and then capable of creating some fantasy rationalization for it. I had one recently. I ran into a guy I worked with in law enforcement and he said "hey, we got those radio repeater upgrades we wanted cause of that fight you got into at Baypoint". I'm like? "what????" He says "Yeah, remember that mental patient guy you 11-99'd on (cop version of calling for an air strike ) and dispatch couldn't hear you and while the guy was trying to take your gun they told you to call in on a landline?" BONNNGGGGG! And I am remembering a guy I nearly shot because he had no pain sensation and fought like a genetic blend of Jason and Freddie on both the clear and the cream. Maybe supressed, but definitely forgotten until then. 30 year old guys who cheat are much more rationalizers than deniers. These fellahs compartmentalize what they regard as sex. Oral sex doesn't count, sex with prostitutes doesn't count, nor does sex with easy women, married women, women on vacation, yada-yada. A lot like how obese people rationalize the food that they eat. Food eaten standing up, food eaten before the promise of exercise. It's all a case of "this doesn't count because of a future promise of action". The action just never occurs. So, people forget things, but like me, they can be remembered if prompted. If however, once reminded they rationalize: " I wasn't really fighting, I was practicing for a TJ Hooker audition, so it doesn't count" then they are in denial/rationalization. And because it's for Val, I'll actually post this little rant. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gjhdiver 0 #44 December 21, 2004 QuoteQuoteAhhh....dissociative disorder. That makes sense. Bah. It's just semantics. Nonsense. You're confusing rationalisation and compartmentalisation, which is a concious act, with a pathological disorder. A more common example of a dissociative disorder is usually the result of a defense/coping mechanism to the experience of extreme stress or trauma. It's really got bugger all to do with lying about blow jobs. It's understabable though that you would be confused about that, becuase the police pretty much only have to deal with people who try to rationalize their behaviors to mitigate prosecution or punishment. You'd get absolutely nowhere interrogating someone with a true disassociative disorder. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cloudseeker2001 0 #45 December 21, 2004 QuoteQuoteQuoteAhhh....dissociative disorder. That makes sense. Bah. It's just semantics. Nonsense. You're confusing rationalisation and compartmentalisation, which is a concious act, with a pathological disorder. A more common example of a dissociative disorder is usually the result of a defense/coping mechanism to the experience of extreme stress or trauma. It's really got bugger all to do with lying about blow jobs. It's understabable though that you would be confused about that, becuase the police pretty much only have to deal with people who try to rationalize their behaviors to mitigate prosecution or punishment. You'd get absolutely nowhere interrogating someone with a true disassociative disorder. BAM! NAILED IT! I could not agree more. "Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance, others mean and rueful of the western dream" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #46 December 21, 2004 ***If someone doesn't remember something, genuinely, they are not in denial. To be in denial they have to be aware of the issue, and then capable of creating some fantasy rationalization for it. *** You missed that bit. That would be dissociative disorder. My dealings with the mentally ill include far more people than I associated with as a result of police work. The person who does not remember something has the more serious issue. The 30 year old man fooling around on his Mrs. was an example Val gave. That guy claiming not to remember is most likely full of shit/rationalization/compartmentalization. True disassociative disorder is very unlikely to be the root cause of catting around. -Should have just done the usual, and written my response to articulate it to myself and then delete it like I more often do. I can debate and get into bloviation contests with you in person. Why bother with this silliness? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vallerina 2 #47 December 21, 2004 I told you that was a bad example!!! The mother getting cussing-angry with her kids is a better example.There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IanHarrop 42 #48 December 21, 2004 I think that Vallerina's denial of the affair she was involved in is a good example. First it was the guy she was with not remembering her, and now she denies that it happened at by "claiming" that it was only and "example".What will have to be done to help Vallerina retrieve this buried memory? Perhaps re-enactment of the eventful night would help. As a good citizen I offer myself up to help Vallerina re-live this very passionate affair Of course I live very far away so in the interest of expediency are there others out there willing to help Vallerina?"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vallerina 2 #49 December 21, 2004 HAHAHAHAHA! That was funny! There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fast 0 #50 December 21, 2004 A better example of denial: "I'm not an alcoholic I could stop if I wanted" but in reality the person drinks every day of their life and couldn't stop without some serious help. Thats denial and depending on the person it can be extreemly strong.~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
