britboynz 0 #1 January 18, 2005 I find it hard to believe how a satellite, sitting there motionless in the vacuum of space can 'move out of alignment' (unless its been smashed to bits by a space rock!) sounds like someone fucked up lol From todays NZ Herald: Loss of satellite cuts Antarctic and Pacific communications 18.01.05 1.00pm The "total loss" of a US$73 million ($106.19 million) satellite on Saturday morning left several Pacific Islands and Scott Base in Antarctica without telephone communications to the outside world. The Bermuda-registered Intelsat IS-804 Satellite, on which Telecom New Zealand rents capacity, moved out of alignment and was lost at 11.32am on Saturday, leaving Scott Base, the Cook Islands, Western Samoa, American Samoa, Chatham Islands, Solomon Islands, Kiribati, Niue, Vanuatu, Tokelau, Tuvalu and Tonga without communications to other countries. Scott Base has access to emergency-only back-up services through the United States' McMurdo Base. Telecom says communications have since been restored to Rarotonga in the Cook Islands, Western Samoa and Solomon Islands through alternative satellite options. Most of the islands still without satellite services have local phone and data services but will be without international calling and data access until alternative arrangements can be made, Telecom spokeswoman Sarah Berry said in a statement. Several other countries not serviced by Telecom were also affected but have alternatives available. New Caledonia, Tahiti, Papua New Guinea, Fiji, East Timor, Vietnam, Korea and Saipan were among those with alternative arrangements. "Telecom customers in New Zealand, along with customers of all other providers internationally will not be able to make calls or send data transmissions to those islands which have been isolated," Ms Berry said. "Bank services, eftpos services, Reuters, and airline data circuits have also been impacted and this could lead to some flight delays to and from these locations. "Some services out of New Zealand and Australia may also be partially affected to east Asian locations such as Vietnam and Beijing." Prime Minister Helen Clark and several other MPs are due to travel to the Chatham Islands on Thursday for official engagements on Friday. A spokeswoman for Miss Clark's office told NZPA they were planning for the trip to go ahead. Intelsat Ltd CEO Conny Kullman said the satellite was not insured. "The loss of a satellite is an extremely rare event for us, and our first priority must be restoration of service to our customers. "Intelsat remains firmly committed to the region that was covered by IS-804, and all necessary effort and assets will be allocated to ensure Intelsat satellite coverage throughout the Asia-Pacific region." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
btucker 0 #2 January 18, 2005 In a former life, I was a satellite controller. The solar wind, gravity hotspots form the earth and [most of all] the gravity of the sun and moon move the satellite around. To be purely geostationary the box is very small indeed – meters in some cases. Small compensation are done on the satellite by flywheels, solar sails and mag torquers (current through wire that interacts with the earths magnetic field). Regular maneuvers are required using small thrusters, the North South maneuvers tend to be pretty big deals with large amounts of propellant used. If something went wrong with the space craft during this burn all sorts of shit would happen. If the thing moves by even a degree you lose pointing – you'd lose comms and control not to mention the payload is now not pointed at earth! If it kept moving, it'd lose power (solars cells not pointing at the Sun). You'd then be up shit creek. One thing is for sure, in a control room like I used to work in – they are in a world of pain. They won't give up, poor bastards. If anyone has some more links, I'd be interested. Blue skies, flat orbits, Blue Dreams Benno Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #3 January 18, 2005 Sounds like a fleet of UFOs will be sneaking into Antartica next weekMy reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #4 January 18, 2005 At least they got some use out of it. Here on the other hand these guys didn't: http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/979224/posts In the end it was a more expensive oops checking in at a cool $400 Million. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Dougiefresh 0 #5 January 18, 2005 Oh, that hurts to look at. Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. --Douglas Adams Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CrazyIvan 0 #6 January 18, 2005 Well, according to my Satellite tracking software, it should be by the east coast of Africa right now __________________________________________ Blue Skies and May the Force be with you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diverdriver 6 #7 January 18, 2005 QuoteSounds like a fleet of UFOs will be sneaking into Antartica next week They always start with "command and control" targets. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites heidihagen 0 #8 January 19, 2005 what about the new double decker airbus that is too big/heavy to fly? unless they fixed it... that's a $2billion+ ooopps! and if they did fix it... 850 people on one flight? "we'll be making connections in___ and___ and ___and..." uh, no thanks! heidi edit: p.s. also, tacoma narrows bridge was probably a pretty big oops in it's day! (video here: http://www.civeng.carleton.ca/Exhibits/Tacoma_Narrows/)i didn't lose my mind, i sold it on ebay. .:need a container to fit 5'4", 110 lb. cypres ready & able to fit a 170 main (or slightly smaller):.[/ce Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites champu 1 #9 January 19, 2005 QuoteWell, according to my Satellite tracking software, it should be by the east coast of Africa right now is that a downloadable version of NASA's web-based java tracking thingamajig? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites champu 1 #10 January 19, 2005 This thread is making me think. (uh oh) Has the "information age" gotten to our heads? Are the vast resources of the internet being used by more and more people to learn just enough about everything to be a critic but not really know what they're talking about? Is marginalizing professions outside your own the in thing to do? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ACMESkydiver 0 #11 January 19, 2005 Quoteedit: p.s. also, tacoma narrows bridge was probably a pretty big oops in it's day! (video here: http://www.civeng.carleton.ca/Exhibits/Tacoma_Narrows/) Leave us outta this!! ~Jaye Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydiverjerry 0 #12 January 19, 2005 QuoteThis thread is making me think. (uh oh) Has the "information age" gotten to our heads? Are the vast resources of the internet being used by more and more people to learn just enough about everything to be a critic but not really know what they're talking about? Is marginalizing professions outside your own the in thing to do? yep it is it does they arelife is a journey not to arrive at the grave in a pristine condition but to skid in sideways kicking and screaming, shouting "fuck me what a ride!. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cloudseeker2001 0 #13 January 19, 2005 QuoteI find it hard to believe how a satellite, sitting there motionless in the vacuum of space can 'move out of alignment' (unless its been smashed to bits by a space rock!) sounds like someone fucked up lol From todays NZ Herald: Loss of satellite cuts Antarctic and Pacific communications 18.01.05 1.00pm The "total loss" of a US$73 million ($106.19 million) satellite on Saturday morning left several Pacific Islands and Scott Base in Antarctica without telephone communications to the outside world. The Bermuda-registered Intelsat IS-804 Satellite, on which Telecom New Zealand rents capacity, moved out of alignment and was lost at 11.32am on Saturday, leaving Scott Base, the Cook Islands, Western Samoa, American Samoa, Chatham Islands, Solomon Islands, Kiribati, Niue, Vanuatu, Tokelau, Tuvalu and Tonga without communications to other countries. Scott Base has access to emergency-only back-up services through the United States' McMurdo Base. Telecom says communications have since been restored to Rarotonga in the Cook Islands, Western Samoa and Solomon Islands through alternative satellite options. Most of the islands still without satellite services have local phone and data services but will be without international calling and data access until alternative arrangements can be made, Telecom spokeswoman Sarah Berry said in a statement. Several other countries not serviced by Telecom were also affected but have alternatives available. New Caledonia, Tahiti, Papua New Guinea, Fiji, East Timor, Vietnam, Korea and Saipan were among those with alternative arrangements. "Telecom customers in New Zealand, along with customers of all other providers internationally will not be able to make calls or send data transmissions to those islands which have been isolated," Ms Berry said. "Bank services, eftpos services, Reuters, and airline data circuits have also been impacted and this could lead to some flight delays to and from these locations. "Some services out of New Zealand and Australia may also be partially affected to east Asian locations such as Vietnam and Beijing." Prime Minister Helen Clark and several other MPs are due to travel to the Chatham Islands on Thursday for official engagements on Friday. A spokeswoman for Miss Clark's office told NZPA they were planning for the trip to go ahead. Intelsat Ltd CEO Conny Kullman said the satellite was not insured. "The loss of a satellite is an extremely rare event for us, and our first priority must be restoration of service to our customers. "Intelsat remains firmly committed to the region that was covered by IS-804, and all necessary effort and assets will be allocated to ensure Intelsat satellite coverage throughout the Asia-Pacific region." What a cool job to have! "Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance, others mean and rueful of the western dream" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,078 #14 January 19, 2005 > sitting there motionless in the vacuum of space . . . Satellites up there orbit at around 5800 mph relative to the center of the earth. (Relative to the surface of the earth they don't move at all, of course.) They also move with the earth as it rotates around the sun, of course - that's another 68,000 mph. And then there's the speed at which the solar system is orbiting the center of the galaxy - around 560,000 mph. Meanwhile they're getting bombarded. Meteorites smack into them regularly, most too small to do serious damage. It does erode their solar arrays over time though. Solar wind - mostly protons - hits them constantly, and they really get blasted during solar storms. As the satellite moves through the earth's magnetic field it interacts with it, and the moon and sun tug on it in different directions. Then there's the cosmic and UV radiation that will eventually destroy their electronics and panel coatings. It's not such a nice place. At the end of the day, no satellite wants to really stay put unless it's in one of the lagrange points, and there are really only two of them that are useful. And they're synchronous to the moon's orbit, not ours, so they're not as useful for communications. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites britboynz 0 #15 January 19, 2005 Quote Are the vast resources of the internet being used by more and more people to learn just enough about everything to be a critic but not really know what they're talking about? You're correct, I don't know much about satellites or their control systems but I do know a fair amount about datacomms & networking. In this case there was no redundancy - a component of a communications system failed and completely cut off several pacific island nations. Because of their isolation and relatively small number of customers/users, it would have been prohibitively expensive to install undersea fibre or duplicate satellite links should there be a problem which meant they were relying on one satellite. Now Intelsat knows this - do you think that Intelsat would come clean and announce to its shareholders, not to mention the governments of those nations and corporate customers such as telcos/airlines that lost data circuits "that err, one of our operations staff killed the satellite and now all your comms are dead, sorry". Hmmm, I doubt it, especially after losing another satellite earlier and on the eve of the company being purchased by a venture capital co for $3bn. http://money.cnn.com/services/tickerheadlines/djh/200501162053DOWJONESDJONLINE000285.htm Conspiracy theories? Does Intelsat know more than it's letting on? Or was it just old & tired and a component unexpectedly failed? I guess we'll never know. Either way, its big news down here in our quiet little corner of the world, even the sheep are talking about it Russ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites champu 1 #16 January 19, 2005 I'm sorry, I didn't mean to rag on you there. I laughed too when I read about LM dropping a satellite on the floor. I think that definitely qualifies as an "expensive oops!" But the Techoma Narrows Bridge? A commsat malfunction/loss? I think people are Monday morning quarterbacking here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites heidihagen 0 #17 January 20, 2005 QuoteQuoteedit: p.s. also, tacoma narrows bridge was probably a pretty big oops in it's day! (video here: http://www.civeng.carleton.ca/Exhibits/Tacoma_Narrows/) Leave us outta this!! hehehe... i'm sorry, it's been 60 or 70 years since it collapsed... ummm, still grieving? it was a big oops! just because the bridge was constructed there doesn't mean the engineers that made the mistake were WA natives. so get over it... it was just faulty design and everybody got away alive i didn't lose my mind, i sold it on ebay. .:need a container to fit 5'4", 110 lb. cypres ready & able to fit a 170 main (or slightly smaller):.[/ce Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CrazyIvan 0 #18 January 20, 2005 Quoteis that a downloadable version of NASA's web-based java tracking thingamajig? No...the one I have is a different one, actually, you can find tons out there, if you're interested.__________________________________________ Blue Skies and May the Force be with you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ACMESkydiver 0 #19 January 20, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteedit: p.s. also, tacoma narrows bridge was probably a pretty big oops in it's day! (video here: http://www.civeng.carleton.ca/Exhibits/Tacoma_Narrows/) Leave us outta this!! hehehe... i'm sorry, it's been 60 or 70 years since it collapsed... ummm, still grieving? it was a big oops! just because the bridge was constructed there doesn't mean the engineers that made the mistake were WA natives. so get over it... it was just faulty design and everybody got away alive We have a greasy spoon restaurant by Ft. Lewis (just a few miles from the bridge) called Galloping Gertie's. That vid did make one OUTSTANDING Pioneer car stereo commercial though. ~Jaye Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnMitchell 16 #20 January 20, 2005 Quote so get over it... it was just faulty design and everybody got away alive Hey, there was a dog in the car that wouldn't get out. He went down with the bridge. Well, every person got out alive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Dougiefresh 0 #5 January 18, 2005 Oh, that hurts to look at. Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. --Douglas Adams Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyIvan 0 #6 January 18, 2005 Well, according to my Satellite tracking software, it should be by the east coast of Africa right now __________________________________________ Blue Skies and May the Force be with you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 6 #7 January 18, 2005 QuoteSounds like a fleet of UFOs will be sneaking into Antartica next week They always start with "command and control" targets. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
heidihagen 0 #8 January 19, 2005 what about the new double decker airbus that is too big/heavy to fly? unless they fixed it... that's a $2billion+ ooopps! and if they did fix it... 850 people on one flight? "we'll be making connections in___ and___ and ___and..." uh, no thanks! heidi edit: p.s. also, tacoma narrows bridge was probably a pretty big oops in it's day! (video here: http://www.civeng.carleton.ca/Exhibits/Tacoma_Narrows/)i didn't lose my mind, i sold it on ebay. .:need a container to fit 5'4", 110 lb. cypres ready & able to fit a 170 main (or slightly smaller):.[/ce Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #9 January 19, 2005 QuoteWell, according to my Satellite tracking software, it should be by the east coast of Africa right now is that a downloadable version of NASA's web-based java tracking thingamajig? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #10 January 19, 2005 This thread is making me think. (uh oh) Has the "information age" gotten to our heads? Are the vast resources of the internet being used by more and more people to learn just enough about everything to be a critic but not really know what they're talking about? Is marginalizing professions outside your own the in thing to do? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ACMESkydiver 0 #11 January 19, 2005 Quoteedit: p.s. also, tacoma narrows bridge was probably a pretty big oops in it's day! (video here: http://www.civeng.carleton.ca/Exhibits/Tacoma_Narrows/) Leave us outta this!! ~Jaye Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverjerry 0 #12 January 19, 2005 QuoteThis thread is making me think. (uh oh) Has the "information age" gotten to our heads? Are the vast resources of the internet being used by more and more people to learn just enough about everything to be a critic but not really know what they're talking about? Is marginalizing professions outside your own the in thing to do? yep it is it does they arelife is a journey not to arrive at the grave in a pristine condition but to skid in sideways kicking and screaming, shouting "fuck me what a ride!. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cloudseeker2001 0 #13 January 19, 2005 QuoteI find it hard to believe how a satellite, sitting there motionless in the vacuum of space can 'move out of alignment' (unless its been smashed to bits by a space rock!) sounds like someone fucked up lol From todays NZ Herald: Loss of satellite cuts Antarctic and Pacific communications 18.01.05 1.00pm The "total loss" of a US$73 million ($106.19 million) satellite on Saturday morning left several Pacific Islands and Scott Base in Antarctica without telephone communications to the outside world. The Bermuda-registered Intelsat IS-804 Satellite, on which Telecom New Zealand rents capacity, moved out of alignment and was lost at 11.32am on Saturday, leaving Scott Base, the Cook Islands, Western Samoa, American Samoa, Chatham Islands, Solomon Islands, Kiribati, Niue, Vanuatu, Tokelau, Tuvalu and Tonga without communications to other countries. Scott Base has access to emergency-only back-up services through the United States' McMurdo Base. Telecom says communications have since been restored to Rarotonga in the Cook Islands, Western Samoa and Solomon Islands through alternative satellite options. Most of the islands still without satellite services have local phone and data services but will be without international calling and data access until alternative arrangements can be made, Telecom spokeswoman Sarah Berry said in a statement. Several other countries not serviced by Telecom were also affected but have alternatives available. New Caledonia, Tahiti, Papua New Guinea, Fiji, East Timor, Vietnam, Korea and Saipan were among those with alternative arrangements. "Telecom customers in New Zealand, along with customers of all other providers internationally will not be able to make calls or send data transmissions to those islands which have been isolated," Ms Berry said. "Bank services, eftpos services, Reuters, and airline data circuits have also been impacted and this could lead to some flight delays to and from these locations. "Some services out of New Zealand and Australia may also be partially affected to east Asian locations such as Vietnam and Beijing." Prime Minister Helen Clark and several other MPs are due to travel to the Chatham Islands on Thursday for official engagements on Friday. A spokeswoman for Miss Clark's office told NZPA they were planning for the trip to go ahead. Intelsat Ltd CEO Conny Kullman said the satellite was not insured. "The loss of a satellite is an extremely rare event for us, and our first priority must be restoration of service to our customers. "Intelsat remains firmly committed to the region that was covered by IS-804, and all necessary effort and assets will be allocated to ensure Intelsat satellite coverage throughout the Asia-Pacific region." What a cool job to have! "Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance, others mean and rueful of the western dream" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,078 #14 January 19, 2005 > sitting there motionless in the vacuum of space . . . Satellites up there orbit at around 5800 mph relative to the center of the earth. (Relative to the surface of the earth they don't move at all, of course.) They also move with the earth as it rotates around the sun, of course - that's another 68,000 mph. And then there's the speed at which the solar system is orbiting the center of the galaxy - around 560,000 mph. Meanwhile they're getting bombarded. Meteorites smack into them regularly, most too small to do serious damage. It does erode their solar arrays over time though. Solar wind - mostly protons - hits them constantly, and they really get blasted during solar storms. As the satellite moves through the earth's magnetic field it interacts with it, and the moon and sun tug on it in different directions. Then there's the cosmic and UV radiation that will eventually destroy their electronics and panel coatings. It's not such a nice place. At the end of the day, no satellite wants to really stay put unless it's in one of the lagrange points, and there are really only two of them that are useful. And they're synchronous to the moon's orbit, not ours, so they're not as useful for communications. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
britboynz 0 #15 January 19, 2005 Quote Are the vast resources of the internet being used by more and more people to learn just enough about everything to be a critic but not really know what they're talking about? You're correct, I don't know much about satellites or their control systems but I do know a fair amount about datacomms & networking. In this case there was no redundancy - a component of a communications system failed and completely cut off several pacific island nations. Because of their isolation and relatively small number of customers/users, it would have been prohibitively expensive to install undersea fibre or duplicate satellite links should there be a problem which meant they were relying on one satellite. Now Intelsat knows this - do you think that Intelsat would come clean and announce to its shareholders, not to mention the governments of those nations and corporate customers such as telcos/airlines that lost data circuits "that err, one of our operations staff killed the satellite and now all your comms are dead, sorry". Hmmm, I doubt it, especially after losing another satellite earlier and on the eve of the company being purchased by a venture capital co for $3bn. http://money.cnn.com/services/tickerheadlines/djh/200501162053DOWJONESDJONLINE000285.htm Conspiracy theories? Does Intelsat know more than it's letting on? Or was it just old & tired and a component unexpectedly failed? I guess we'll never know. Either way, its big news down here in our quiet little corner of the world, even the sheep are talking about it Russ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #16 January 19, 2005 I'm sorry, I didn't mean to rag on you there. I laughed too when I read about LM dropping a satellite on the floor. I think that definitely qualifies as an "expensive oops!" But the Techoma Narrows Bridge? A commsat malfunction/loss? I think people are Monday morning quarterbacking here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
heidihagen 0 #17 January 20, 2005 QuoteQuoteedit: p.s. also, tacoma narrows bridge was probably a pretty big oops in it's day! (video here: http://www.civeng.carleton.ca/Exhibits/Tacoma_Narrows/) Leave us outta this!! hehehe... i'm sorry, it's been 60 or 70 years since it collapsed... ummm, still grieving? it was a big oops! just because the bridge was constructed there doesn't mean the engineers that made the mistake were WA natives. so get over it... it was just faulty design and everybody got away alive i didn't lose my mind, i sold it on ebay. .:need a container to fit 5'4", 110 lb. cypres ready & able to fit a 170 main (or slightly smaller):.[/ce Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyIvan 0 #18 January 20, 2005 Quoteis that a downloadable version of NASA's web-based java tracking thingamajig? No...the one I have is a different one, actually, you can find tons out there, if you're interested.__________________________________________ Blue Skies and May the Force be with you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ACMESkydiver 0 #19 January 20, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteedit: p.s. also, tacoma narrows bridge was probably a pretty big oops in it's day! (video here: http://www.civeng.carleton.ca/Exhibits/Tacoma_Narrows/) Leave us outta this!! hehehe... i'm sorry, it's been 60 or 70 years since it collapsed... ummm, still grieving? it was a big oops! just because the bridge was constructed there doesn't mean the engineers that made the mistake were WA natives. so get over it... it was just faulty design and everybody got away alive We have a greasy spoon restaurant by Ft. Lewis (just a few miles from the bridge) called Galloping Gertie's. That vid did make one OUTSTANDING Pioneer car stereo commercial though. ~Jaye Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #20 January 20, 2005 Quote so get over it... it was just faulty design and everybody got away alive Hey, there was a dog in the car that wouldn't get out. He went down with the bridge. Well, every person got out alive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
