Open question - why should skydiving be bigger?

[JohnMitchell 16]

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More money also means more R&D, and safer equipment.

The equipment is already much, much safer than the users. Although Bill Booth continues to amaze me with every new thing he invents, Skyhook being the latest, I think a bigger, richer sport would not have a big increase in safety. It could be that I lack imagination, but I think we'll keep killing ourselves any way we can.

Increased competition and the economies of scale would bring down the cost of skydiving, so that's always a good thing. The more, the merrier.

[PhreeZone 20]

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Increased competition and the economies of scale would bring down the cost of skydiving, so that's always a good thing.

That only works to a point. You still have lots of fixed fees like fuel, airplane maintence, hanger cost, airplane payment that have to be paid for. You also have fixed income of no matter what there is only so many hours of sunlight, and the plane can only fly so fast. If the jumpers go up 50% that means either longer waits for slots or the DZ needs to buy another plane. If a plane flies double the hours in a year it just reaches its maintence deadlines faster and the money goes out at the same rate it flows in.

Economics of scale only works on things that you are able to bargin for. No one seems to be selling Twin Otters for 300k or droping the insurance prices on them anytime soon.

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[Douva 0]

I don't want skydiving to get much "bigger"--I kind of like it where it is. But I also don't want to see anymore DZ's disappearing, aircraft being retired without replacements, etc. If you read through the "why isn't skydiving not a lucrative sport??" thread, you'll see the same people who don't want skydiving on TV ranting about the inevitable decline of the skydiving aircraft fleet, ever-increasing airport access issues, and the threat of government regulation. As long as the general public sees skydiving as simply a crazy stunt with no redeeming value, we are never going to get public support in fighting any of those problems. But if Joe America has paused his channel surfing on a couple of 4-way and freefly matches on "The Deuce" and he happens across a news piece on a group of skydivers about to get kicked off their airport, he's going to think, "You know, what those skydivers do isn't really so different from my hobbies, and that sucks that the government is trying to stop them." And suddenly we have public support. As long as nobody understands us, nobody cares about us, and as long as nobody cares about us, we're always going to be teetering on the edge of extinction. The surest way to ensure the survival of a minority is to gain the backing of the majority.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[Douva 0]

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8) Because it is an extreme sport. A sport which demands concentration, training, effort, dedication, money and time. It's about wanting recognition. Its about wanting recognition for those who earn Gold, Silver and Bronze medals every year and yet; no one outside the community knows what they have to do to earn those.

Nice answer, BIGUN.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[Nightingale 0]

I would venture to say #3 and #5.

Personally, while I don't care if the sport gets bigger or not, I just want to keep jumping, I do admit it'd be nice to have health insurance companies have accurate data on skydivers, and it'd be nice if more people understood why we do what we do, and that we're not insane and don't have a death wish.

It'd also be nice if everyone had access to the benefits of larger dropzones, like big planes and wind tunnels.

[diablopilot 2]

It's too big already.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[diablopilot 2]

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Its about wanting recognition for those who earn Gold, Silver and Bronze medals every year and yet; no one outside the community knows what they have to do to earn those.

Like someone else said: Ego.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[skydiverjerry 0]

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I want to figure this out. A lot of people seem to want skydiving to be bigger, a mainstream sport that's on TV a lot. Why is that? Is it:

1. so there will be more DZ's

2. because then it will be on TV and things on TV are famous and good

3. so more people will be skydivers and skydivers won't be so 'misunderstood'

4. so tandem factories/schools/gear stores can make more money

5. so there will be more big planes

6. because the more people there are, the more public buzz there will be about skydiving and we like buzz

7. because bigger is better

I suspect that a lot of people go with 7) because it's such a staple of modern life. The big TV, the big house, the big SUV are all status symbols - why wouldn't they want their sport to be big too? But I've heard 2) often, as well - 'it would be great if ESPN had a freefly program!' And that sure ain't because there aren't enough freefly videos around.

more dz's means easyer acces for skydivers

if its on tv thats advertising free advertising generates revenue and understanding.
more people skydiving means that we need more facilities and equipment larger planes et al.
if manufacturers ern more money they also tend to use some of that to invest in reserch and development thats gota be good
more big planes yea we want that as it means more free fall and more people in free fall
because the more people there are, the more public buzz there will be about skydiving and we like buzz you said it.

bigger is not better all the time i have jumped at smaller drop zones and like the jive there at the same time surly we all want the sport we love to work and be big, i think there for that all are correct

blue skies and go big guys.

life is a journey not to arrive at the grave in a pristine condition but to skid in sideways kicking and screaming, shouting "fuck me what a ride!.

[lawrocket 3]

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More money also means more R&D, and safer equipment

Booth's Law #2 - "The safer skydiving gear becomes, the more chances skydivers will take, in order to keep the fatality rate constant."

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[billvon 3,102]

>8) Because it is an extreme sport. A sport which demands
> concentration, training, effort, dedication, money and time.

Those are all good reasons, reasons that I'm in the sport as well.

>no one outside the community knows what they have to do to earn those.

This is the part that I don't get. Who cares? Are we better off overall because some guy in a bar says "Hey, I saw you on the TV!"

I've helped set a few records. They took the concerted effort of a few hundred people, and all of us (along with most skydivers) know what it took to make it happen. Which works out for me, because personally, those are the people I care about. If some guy in a sports bar somewhere doesn't know much about it, that's fine with me. If he wants to know he can ask. At the end of the day, I take a lot more pride in knowing that the World Team organizers think I'm a competent skydiver than knowing a hundred whuffos think I'm some amazing extreme athlete (despite Duffy's admirable attempts to describe us that way over the PA.)

Think of other sports and endeavors that people participate in. I'm sure there are people who build ships in bottles, or people who are into fell running, or people who train gorillas who are every bit as dedicated as we are, and who work as hard, have sacrified as much etc as we have. Yet most of us are OK not knowing much about those things. If I want to know, I can find out pretty easily. But until then, is the world champion ship-in-a-bottle builder going to be bummed out because I don't even know his name? Is the world of small ships in glass bottles worse off because I don't? I doubt it.

Maybe I'm not typical of skydivers in that way, I don't know. But if your goal is to get people to appreciate what we do, it would seem like a better idea to just do demos. Whuffos are really impressed by them - and you can get paid to do them!

[windcatcher 0]

okay, I didn't really have time to read all the posts, but here's my newbie 2 cents.
I love the fact that skydiving is more of a "hidden" sport and NOT everyone under the sun wants to try it. I really don't want skydiving to become more mainstream, I like having a place like the dz where I can escape from a lot of "modern pressures" so to speak.
Also, a diamond wouldn't be as precious if it were a common item, correct?
I think skydiving could lose a lot of what makes it so incredible, if it does become more mainstream.

Mother to the cutest little thing in the world...

[bobsled92 0]

I feel crowed at most DZ now as it is.

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[slug 1]

Hi Bill

The people who make a income off the sport need the sport to grow to increase their income.

USPA More members, more dues
DZO's, tandems pilots, Tandem video people, Aff instructors, gear dealers, manufactor' coach's, etc will all benifit by a increased customer baseRegardless of the customers skill level.

The sport is making a lot of their income off of the people entering the sport thats "good" bussiness the more people that enter the sport thats better business.

IMO The infracture needed to develope the new jumpers into safe and proficient jumpers at some the DZ's isn't keeping up with the demand due to a lack of a financial incentive to keep a eye out for the young male duckling's.

The profit from the new people entering the sport is front end loaded, so after their been trained geared up, maybe coached at little to bad your on your own.

From what I've read this may not be the case at DZ's like perris or SDC among others but Other DZ's there's a lot of solo's and no one cares.

R.I.P.

[jdfreefly 1]

Our sport hangs by a thread, and it is very thin.

More people in the sport would just make it that much harder for our government to regulate us out of existence.

As with anything though, it is a trade off. Allready we have grown to a point where there are many people jumping who probably shouldn't be. Personally, I think the good things outweigh the bad, but some close friends completely dissagree.

I will say this, I have never pushed any one I know to make a skydive. I talk about it all the time, and I have friends who have never been to the dropzone who would probably be very bored in a first jump class because it would be a lot of review, but I never put pressure on anyone to come out and make a jump.

If they decide they want to go, I will certainly encourage them and help in any way I can. Seven years in and only 2 people have come out to jump with me and neither of them stuck with it.

Methane Freefly - got stink?

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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For states like Illinois, skydiving is an economic resource with SDC and a number of DZs clustered in that area and the city of Rantoul has benefited from WFFC moving from Quincy.

Two DZs around Chicago now. The other two have closed in the recent past. Also, if the money was so great for Quincy, why did they try to push us away?

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you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
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[Peej 0]

Oh what i wouldn't give to have a tunnel and an Otter here in South Africa!

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[mjosparky 4]

I used to snow ski when it was a sport. It got bigger and better. It turned into a recreation,the net result was crowds, longer lift lines and too many jerks on the runs who didn't care who they ran over.

Skydiving used to be a sport, but is slowly becoming a recreation. Keep it on the edge of convenience, then only those who really want to jump with make the effort.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[BIGUN 1,477]

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I've helped set a few records. They took the concerted effort of a few hundred people, and all of us (along with most skydivers) know what it took to make it happen. Which works out for me, because personally, those are the people I care about.

You led me to believe the question was about the sport, not the individual. I'd like the sport to receive more recognition.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[gordy 0]

Yip, if its not broken.....

[Ron 10]

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I want to figure this out. A lot of people seem to want skydiving to be bigger, a mainstream sport that's on TV a lot. Why is that? Is it:

Bigun said it pretty well.

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8) Because it is an extreme sport. A sport which demands concentration, training, effort, dedication, money and time. It's about wanting recognition. Its about wanting recognition for those who earn Gold, Silver and Bronze medals every year and yet; no one outside the community knows what they have to do to earn those.

I have friends that are World Champions...And I make SO much more than they make. I think its a shame that the best our sport has to offer does not live very well while a bench warmer in Baseball makes millions.

They deserve something for the effort they put out...I was talking to Trinko once and asked him if it was worth it. He said it sucked that him winning a World Champoinship was not worth anything outside of a DZ....But that it was till worth it.

It's a shame that some of the Worlds Best end up driving a taxi.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[mjosparky 4]

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like the sport to receive more recognition.

Recognition from whom and Why? If you want recognition, you had better be ready for change, big change.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[mjosparky 4]

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I have friends that are World Champions...And I make SO much more than they make. I think its a shame that the best our sport has to offer does not live very well while a bench wearmer in Baseball makes millions.

Ron,

They knew what the sport had to offer when they went after the gold. Did they think it would change? Skydiving is a piss poor spectator sport, its not something you can fill the stands with. Without a large spectator base, no advertising money, no advertising money, no big paycheck.

If they ever do figure a way to make it a main stream sport, the majority of skydivers will be fucked. Only the elite with reap the profits and the rest will be left to deal with the bullshit of popularity.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Ron 10]

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They knew what the sport had to offer when they went after the gold. Did they think it would change? Skydiving is a piss poor spectator sport, its not something you can fill the stands with. Without a large spectator base, no advertising money, no advertising money, no big paycheck.

I agree, but do you think its not fucked up that the Best Skydivers in the world drive used cars while the an Average player in another sport (say tennis) drives a BMW?

Just because it is reality does not mean it does not suck.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[sunshine 2]

Me likes it the way it is.

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[Brains 2]

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I agree, but do you think its not fucked up that the Best Skydivers in the world drive used cars while the an Average player in another sport (say tennis) drives a BMW?

Just because it is reality does not mean it does not suck.

Ron i agree with you on your stance for this thread and the others, however, it only sucks if you value those types of things. Most of the elite that i have met, aren't that into material things.

Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you.